Concealed carry singletank peanut

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Valorium
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Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Valorium » #634688

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31316

I dunno about you guys, but when I go out and about and feel the need to protect myself, I always carry my concealed-carry satchel of improvised singletank explosives. I have trained for several hundred hours at the toxins testing range, ensuring that I always practice proper bomb discipline and carry them without a spark in the chamber. If anyone tried to take my singletank explosives from me, they would no longer be red-blooded Americans – they'd be blood-red smears against the nearest surface. God Bless America.

Anyways, a very promising ban to-be-watched. Thoughts?
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Longestarmlonglaw
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Longestarmlonglaw » #634694

UHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I NEEEEEEEED TO MASS KEEEEL PEOPLE FOR DOPAMINEEEE WITH BOMB, FUNNY SPESSMEN GO HORIZONTAL THEN GIBBBBBBBBB
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Pandarsenic
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Pandarsenic » #634699

Really, why learn Atmospherics at all if
Admin was hell-bent on nailing his idea that bombs 'shouldn't' be used for self-defense on Manuel because they think they're use of unreasonable force
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Nabski
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Nabski » #634700

I got a very frustrating ban back in the day in the same vein as this. It was justified but later I realized it pissed me off.

I made a suicide bomb. Attached to it was a health analyzer so it would go off when I died. I wandered around waving a sign that said "Explodes on death".

I died to a simple mob, and the note stated as such.

It left out that the simple mob was one of those fucking kudzu man eaters when they had vines that could go through walls, so despite the fact that I was running away from it as hard as I could, and had two airlocks between me and it, it still killed me and I exploded as a result. I panicked too hard to just drop the bomb.
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Bawhoppennn
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Bawhoppennn » #634717

I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever

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Stickymayhem
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Stickymayhem » #634731

My use of bombs extends to using them against confirmed round-ending antags (whereever I can avoid collateral damage on other crew through very destructive singlecaps), as an antag to do crime, as well as self-defense.
My use of bombs extends to literally station-destroying threats, when I'm the station-destroying threat, or when the clown steals my shoes.
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Shadowflame909
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Shadowflame909 » #634732

Atmos is so hard to learn and keeps changing that till this day I can only monkey copy people who know the meta strat

its a one trick pony with a gatekeeper!!
► Show Spoiler
Boot
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Boot » #634736

It's interesting that this says bombs, without additional clarification. I remember a ban appeal not too long ago where a clown elanced a sec officer for stealing the spare from him and MSO himself came in to ban the sec officer.

However I have since been informed that all the rules are up to the discretion of the admins so we actually have no standards for when someone is breaking them.
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by NecromancerAnne » #634738

Frankly, I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often. People on Manuel can be a little trigger happy despite the apparent agreement to ton that shit down. What happened to good ol' fish fighting?

Also, they seem convinced that thief is subject to antag escalation and is...apparently a round-ending antag? The funny glove snatchers deserve to be nuked?
Blase
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Blase » #634743

I think you're all vastly misunderstanding conceptually what kind of bombs Muffindrake is using. They're effectively syndicate mini bombs, plus a few more tiles with no potential to gib. I would consider them allowed to be used in escalation, and so would some admins. You all think of bombs as mass murder + mass grief + round ending weapons. They don't have to be that way. The way Muffindrake was using them is not that way. Damn shame Rave didn't give a satisfactory answer when I brought this up at the community meetings. This is exactly what I was aiming to prevent.
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by NecromancerAnne » #634766

Big nerd spiel ahead:
Spoiler:
If it was minibomb equivalent, which Baal suggests it isnt, that's a gib bomb and definitely not kosher in escalation situations unless it's extreme. But if it isn't, it still sounds pretty lethal. I think repeat break-in handled by security is probably not enough to warrant that, but I would argue that there are plenty of other pieces of equipment engineers can manufacture that is both less lethal and less destructive. Like a stun prod that they can print out of an autolathe, or reinforcing the walls and doors. I get that chemists make short work of walls with thermite, but at least you'll know for sure it was them.

The first mistake Baal makes is assuming 'this is an antag'. They're not. Thieves are nonantags. If he escalated into them as an antag and treating them as one, he's in the wrong already. Secondly, the expectation is that escalation start nonlethally, as outlined in escalation policy, but defenders decide how it eacalates. This dumbass was going to use something the chemist couldn't possibly respond to himself while only having heresay about a threat on his life, so the ballpark on that going out of control is on him. How certain was he on this matter that he was the defender in this scenario? Seems like he's already playing with fire and upset when told to tone it down. Being asked to cool it is within reason for an admin. He may well have talked himself into a note by being so standoffish and aggressive. The tone of the appeal shows a lot about how he views others and his general priorities being fairly...iunno, not very interactive? Juvenile?

I speak as someone who also recently got into a slightly similar situation (and appealed it successfully) that noting someone who came to you first is maybe bad form, but the difference between myself and him was that I was trying to seek clarification and was happy to receive an answer and follow it (but things broke down somehow and that never really came, instead getting a note and bafflement on my end as to how it happened), and I approached the appeal with frustration but obvious willingness to agree with their stance. Because duh, I was looking for that. While this feels more like indignation at being given an answer that wasn't what was expected.

if this guy was particularly aggressive about it and trying to strong arm approval for his behavior, but became very angry when it wasn't given, or said he'd do it anyway (no clarification there but I have dealt with people like that before), that's maybe worth noting.

Thirdly, there is a rule against using bombs against people within escalation in the Manuel rules. It's rule 2.
Rule 2. Escalation and Roleplay wrote: Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little to no justification is against the rules. Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen; however, these conflicts should escalate properly, and retribution must be proportionate. For example, this means you shouldn’t immediately escalate to murder when someone refuses to leave a certain area or give back something they stole.
Do not jump to murder off a break in or theft. The listed examples are even perfectly outlining this very scenario. Why Rule 0 even got mentioned is beyond me but you are expected not to bomb people being jerks, because that's probably going to murder them or at least be so out of proportion to what they're doing. You're using a pretty lethal weapon, and nobody but you might know the true intent of you using that, so you shouldn't be shocked to learn that even admins won't trust you aren't going to use it to murder the poor sod. Just be a sensible person and use a prod.

If the reason you aren't using a prod is because it 'could be disarmed from me and I want to ensure victory in a self defense situation', then you played yourself and showed you are very clearly more concerned about winning than having a meaningful confrontation where, iunno, a struggle could occur. Like rules 12 and roleplay rules 8 are asking you very nicely not to do.
TL;DR It's actually totally overescalation, read Roleplay Rule 2. Read the rules. Don't escalate to murder, dont use bombs, that's lethal force. Dont even use lethal force if you can actually prepare a nonlethal solution, which he could have here. If you aren't willing to use nonlethal force because you only xare to win, you are already failing on the core agreement of the server, and you should learn that winning isn't something you should be focusing in. What's wrong with stun and cabletie anyway?

Also, thieves aren't antags.
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YBS
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by YBS » #634771

I am having a minor dispute I shall now throw 10 IEDS and say 'whoops' so admin dont ban please
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Not-Dorsidarf
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Not-Dorsidarf » #634861

Have these people never heard of a STUNPROD? Like, if you suspect someones planning to loot your department or beat you up, make a fucking stunprod and cableties instead of a hand grenade that wont even do anything useful unless you catch him extremely off guard.
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Rohen_Tahir
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Re: Concealed carry singletank peanut

Post by Rohen_Tahir » #634930

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: Thu Mar 24, 2022 3:01 pm Have these people never heard of a STUNPROD? Like, if you suspect someones planning to loot your department or beat you up, make a fucking stunprod and cableties instead of a hand grenade that wont even do anything useful unless you catch him extremely off guard.
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