@StickyMayhem, AI policy
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- Itseasytosee2me
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@StickyMayhem, AI policy
Last edited by Itseasytosee2me on Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
See you later
- Nabski
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Re: @StickyMayhem
This is a bad title.
I'm assuming you mean the AI related one, and they only answered about purged and didn't say anything about asimov AIs which is disappointing.
I'm assuming you mean the AI related one, and they only answered about purged and didn't say anything about asimov AIs which is disappointing.
- Bawhoppennn
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Re: @StickyMayhem
I'd love to know Sticky's thoughts on all headmin rulings
Maybe they could set up a blog
Maybe they could set up a blog
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
- Itseasytosee2me
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- Location: Space Station 13
Re: @StickyMayhem
This thread is directed at sticky. Perhaps a "Purged AI policynut" would have been a more broad topic, but that is not the purpose of this thread.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
See you later
- Kendrickorium
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- Itseasytosee2me
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Nothing. But It is now not allowed to purge AIs without following up with laws (Citation needed) .
An odd choice that solves the problem of having too much policy by adding more.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
See you later
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
I apparently missed this alleged golden age of "purge the Ai and then just chill" where it happened regularly, if it's not like a lot of policy scares that are about fabricated problems that don't actually happen.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Kendrickorium
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
that sounds kind of silly wouldnt it just be easier to just get the word out more than purged ai's are to be treated like crew?
- mstachife
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:00 am
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
I've had it happen a lot to me, not much recently since this discussion seems to have started anew. I would love to be wrong but I'm concerned this is going to limit a lot of interesting interactions that could've happened otherwise.Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:46 am I apparently missed this alleged golden age of "purge the Ai and then just chill" where it happened regularly, if it's not like a lot of policy scares that are about fabricated problems that don't actually happen.
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
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- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Kind of weird ruling, purging without replacing their laws is now rulebreaking? I highly doubt people who don't check forums will have any idea it's wrong to purge an AI.
Spoiler:
-
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
During a revolution,
As a heretic i purged a unsynced borg, so they might help me out and get my mindshield removed, cause i didnt wanna die to a lynch mob
Would need to upload a Law that they are thankful for being free now , i guess
As a heretic i purged a unsynced borg, so they might help me out and get my mindshield removed, cause i didnt wanna die to a lynch mob
Would need to upload a Law that they are thankful for being free now , i guess
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
I spent like an hour complaining about this ruling last night in adminbus. This will be a return to tradition, coresticky style post where I shit on headmins in a stream of consciousness "I was right" rant, and use a totally gratuitious analogy to systemic racism against black people so I can shove politics into it.
This policy makes no sense and it was a terrible decision. In fact, it is such a spectacularly misguided bandaid on an actual systemic problem that only a fucking liberal could have devised it. It is the purest form of a solution that desperately seeks to avoid analyzing the true nature of the problem. Many people disagree with my thesis that silicons have not been utterly neutered by silicon policy (Which I'll begin referring to as an "OOC Lawset" because that makes my point better) to the point that they are essentially unplayable by the kinds of people who offered the station the best silicon experiences. It is a common phenomenon in a round as an AI to reach the point where the harm to humans is so great you're obligated by your IC laws to stop it on a wider scale, but obligated by your OOC Lawset not to be annoying enough to the crew to generate complaints, so you're paralyzed by an inability to do anything, a terribly frustrating and unfulfilling experience where you either complain on the common channel while everyone ignores you, or take your hands off the keyboard and afk until the gamestate resets back to a manageable level of harm.
But this policy proves my point perfectly. Our OOC lawset is so fucking restrictive, and the assumption that a totally purged AI (Supposedly neutral) is MORE CREW FRIENDLY THAN ASIMOV OR CREWSIMOV is so widely-known, that the headmins had to step in and say "It is illegal act ICly as if we've ruined silicon policy to the extent that they are OOCly your subordinate, crewfriendly validbot". I don't want to get bogged down in 'original intent', but the game needs a balancing faction to restrict the violence available to people ICly. Security is too good a force at stopping antagonists without some kind of restrictions. Currently we somewhat restrict their ability to use that force, or random search, some other small OOC things like that to try to temper their ability to shut down the vast majority of antagonists if they want to. But we used to have a balancing mechanism in the game: The silicons. If security used harmful methods (which are more effective) then they lose the backing of the omniscient unstunnable robots and may even come into direct conflict with them, making their life harder. If security stay non-violent, they're fighting with one arm behind their back but at least have the silicons onside. But the most appealing, complex and ROLEPLAY producing option is for security to use violence sporadically, in secret, wherever necessary and no further. This leaves opportunity for mistakes, for subterfuge, for a facade between security and the silicons, creating a tension in every single round regardless of other outcomes, that doesn't result in anyone's destruction but can be a meaningful contribution to roleplay. This is BUILT IN TO THE FUCKING MAP with the cameraless execution chamber, again, not relying on original intent to make my point here but clearly this was thought about in the past. I never see people executed in the execution chamber anymore because they don't need to be. They get beaten to death under cameras and the AI can do nothing but cry on common for 2 minutes before being obligated to go back to validhunting.
Back to FUCKING liberalism, liberals are cursed with an absence of sociological imagination, they cannot solve systemic problems because they would no longer be liberals if they understood the abstracted harms at the heart of their system they would either accept them and become some kind of neocon, or become socialists in trying to remove them. Liberals acknowledge racism is a thing that happened and still happens, but they cannot acknowledge that the systems of power they have in place are racist. So what do they do? Affirmative fucking action. Let's just do opposite racism to push an equivalent number of minorities up to the same level as the oppressive white hegemony and everything will be solved forever! Except it doesn't fucking work, these bandaids just cause more problems to increasingly strange effect. This is what has been happening to silicon policy for four years. Every headmin decision has essentially followed the framework of "Pick the option that makes silicon less annoying to the crew" resulting in a totally neutered role with little scope for creativity or impact, and I think this is the heart of the issues we've had with validhunting and powergaming. The restricting factor on violence used to be the silicons, but they can't do this effectively anymore, so now the tools available in game are the limit rather than another faction holding a tense line and variable line against acceptable violence.
TL;DR: The ruling demonstrates that AIs are OOCly obligated to be the crews bitch to such a severe extent that it is now against the rules to purge them to put the into this ideal crew-friendly neutral state and liberalism is cringe.
This policy makes no sense and it was a terrible decision. In fact, it is such a spectacularly misguided bandaid on an actual systemic problem that only a fucking liberal could have devised it. It is the purest form of a solution that desperately seeks to avoid analyzing the true nature of the problem. Many people disagree with my thesis that silicons have not been utterly neutered by silicon policy (Which I'll begin referring to as an "OOC Lawset" because that makes my point better) to the point that they are essentially unplayable by the kinds of people who offered the station the best silicon experiences. It is a common phenomenon in a round as an AI to reach the point where the harm to humans is so great you're obligated by your IC laws to stop it on a wider scale, but obligated by your OOC Lawset not to be annoying enough to the crew to generate complaints, so you're paralyzed by an inability to do anything, a terribly frustrating and unfulfilling experience where you either complain on the common channel while everyone ignores you, or take your hands off the keyboard and afk until the gamestate resets back to a manageable level of harm.
But this policy proves my point perfectly. Our OOC lawset is so fucking restrictive, and the assumption that a totally purged AI (Supposedly neutral) is MORE CREW FRIENDLY THAN ASIMOV OR CREWSIMOV is so widely-known, that the headmins had to step in and say "It is illegal act ICly as if we've ruined silicon policy to the extent that they are OOCly your subordinate, crewfriendly validbot". I don't want to get bogged down in 'original intent', but the game needs a balancing faction to restrict the violence available to people ICly. Security is too good a force at stopping antagonists without some kind of restrictions. Currently we somewhat restrict their ability to use that force, or random search, some other small OOC things like that to try to temper their ability to shut down the vast majority of antagonists if they want to. But we used to have a balancing mechanism in the game: The silicons. If security used harmful methods (which are more effective) then they lose the backing of the omniscient unstunnable robots and may even come into direct conflict with them, making their life harder. If security stay non-violent, they're fighting with one arm behind their back but at least have the silicons onside. But the most appealing, complex and ROLEPLAY producing option is for security to use violence sporadically, in secret, wherever necessary and no further. This leaves opportunity for mistakes, for subterfuge, for a facade between security and the silicons, creating a tension in every single round regardless of other outcomes, that doesn't result in anyone's destruction but can be a meaningful contribution to roleplay. This is BUILT IN TO THE FUCKING MAP with the cameraless execution chamber, again, not relying on original intent to make my point here but clearly this was thought about in the past. I never see people executed in the execution chamber anymore because they don't need to be. They get beaten to death under cameras and the AI can do nothing but cry on common for 2 minutes before being obligated to go back to validhunting.
Back to FUCKING liberalism, liberals are cursed with an absence of sociological imagination, they cannot solve systemic problems because they would no longer be liberals if they understood the abstracted harms at the heart of their system they would either accept them and become some kind of neocon, or become socialists in trying to remove them. Liberals acknowledge racism is a thing that happened and still happens, but they cannot acknowledge that the systems of power they have in place are racist. So what do they do? Affirmative fucking action. Let's just do opposite racism to push an equivalent number of minorities up to the same level as the oppressive white hegemony and everything will be solved forever! Except it doesn't fucking work, these bandaids just cause more problems to increasingly strange effect. This is what has been happening to silicon policy for four years. Every headmin decision has essentially followed the framework of "Pick the option that makes silicon less annoying to the crew" resulting in a totally neutered role with little scope for creativity or impact, and I think this is the heart of the issues we've had with validhunting and powergaming. The restricting factor on violence used to be the silicons, but they can't do this effectively anymore, so now the tools available in game are the limit rather than another faction holding a tense line and variable line against acceptable violence.
TL;DR: The ruling demonstrates that AIs are OOCly obligated to be the crews bitch to such a severe extent that it is now against the rules to purge them to put the into this ideal crew-friendly neutral state and liberalism is cringe.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
God I fucking hate liberals so fucking much
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- BONERMASTER
- Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:28 pm
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
But Sticky, aren't you a liberal yourself though?
With curious regards
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- Pandarsenic
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
idk if this will surprise anyone, but I feel like this is about spot-on. If security is determined to be continuously harmful, you just gotta lock them down and slam the shuttle call in proportion to their dedication to being assholes.Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:53 amIt is a common phenomenon in a round as an AI to reach the point where the harm to humans is so great you're obligated by your IC laws to stop it on a wider scale, but obligated by your OOC Lawset not to be annoying enough to the crew to generate complaints, so you're paralyzed by an inability to do anything, a terribly frustrating and unfulfilling experience where you either complain on the common channel while everyone ignores you, or take your hands off the keyboard and afk until the gamestate resets back to a manageable level of harm.
But we used to have a balancing mechanism in the game: The silicons. If security used harmful methods (which are more effective) then they lose the backing of the omniscient unstunnable robots and may even come into direct conflict with them, making their life harder. If security stay non-violent, they're fighting with one arm behind their back but at least have the silicons onside. But the most appealing, complex and ROLEPLAY producing option is for security to use violence sporadically, in secret, wherever necessary and no further. This leaves opportunity for mistakes, for subterfuge, for a facade between security and the silicons, creating a tension in every single round regardless of other outcomes, that doesn't result in anyone's destruction but can be a meaningful contribution to roleplay. This is BUILT IN TO THE FUCKING MAP with the cameraless execution chamber, again, not relying on original intent to make my point here but clearly this was thought about in the past. I never see people executed in the execution chamber anymore because they don't need to be. They get beaten to death under cameras and the AI can do nothing but cry on common for 2 minutes before being obligated to go back to validhunting.
You shouldn't be fucking the crew over for no reason, but what people seem to forget is your laws are all the reason you need. Validhunting is the lowest form of scum AI.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
What no polcon does to a mferBONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:16 amBut Sticky, aren't you a liberal yourself though?
With curious regards
-BONERMASTER
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- Nabski
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:42 pm
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
This rant was making sense as long as he was talking about game things, then it went off the rails.
- Farquaar
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- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
The Boris quote in Sticky's signature is ever-relevant. But Sticky being a smoothbrained commie doesn't mean his AI takes aren't 100% valid.
► Show Spoiler
- Nabski
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
I have signatures turned off because some people make theirs too long.
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
The mental gymnastics it takes for you to understand the nuanced impact of systemic issues on behaviour and culture only when they pertain to a 2d space video game are fascinating
"This all made total logical sense up until the second it contradicted Benji Shapipo"
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- Nabski
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Oh god he is one radio station up from what I normally listen to on my commute home after work and it's always the most smoothbrained takes on EVERYTHING.Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:29 pmThe mental gymnastics it takes for you to understand the nuanced impact of systemic issues on behaviour and culture only when they pertain to a 2d space video game are fascinating
"This all made total logical sense up until the second it contradicted Benji Shapipo"
- Itseasytosee2me
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- Kendrickorium
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- kieth4
- In-Game Head Admin
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Good take I love sticky now wtfStickymayhem wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:53 am I spent like an hour complaining about this ruling last night in adminbus. This will be a return to tradition, coresticky style post where I shit on headmins in a stream of consciousness "I was right" rant, and use a totally gratuitious analogy to systemic racism against black people so I can shove politics into it.
This policy makes no sense and it was a terrible decision. In fact, it is such a spectacularly misguided bandaid on an actual systemic problem that only a fucking liberal could have devised it. It is the purest form of a solution that desperately seeks to avoid analyzing the true nature of the problem. Many people disagree with my thesis that silicons have not been utterly neutered by silicon policy (Which I'll begin referring to as an "OOC Lawset" because that makes my point better) to the point that they are essentially unplayable by the kinds of people who offered the station the best silicon experiences. It is a common phenomenon in a round as an AI to reach the point where the harm to humans is so great you're obligated by your IC laws to stop it on a wider scale, but obligated by your OOC Lawset not to be annoying enough to the crew to generate complaints, so you're paralyzed by an inability to do anything, a terribly frustrating and unfulfilling experience where you either complain on the common channel while everyone ignores you, or take your hands off the keyboard and afk until the gamestate resets back to a manageable level of harm.
But this policy proves my point perfectly. Our OOC lawset is so fucking restrictive, and the assumption that a totally purged AI (Supposedly neutral) is MORE CREW FRIENDLY THAN ASIMOV OR CREWSIMOV is so widely-known, that the headmins had to step in and say "It is illegal act ICly as if we've ruined silicon policy to the extent that they are OOCly your subordinate, crewfriendly validbot". I don't want to get bogged down in 'original intent', but the game needs a balancing faction to restrict the violence available to people ICly. Security is too good a force at stopping antagonists without some kind of restrictions. Currently we somewhat restrict their ability to use that force, or random search, some other small OOC things like that to try to temper their ability to shut down the vast majority of antagonists if they want to. But we used to have a balancing mechanism in the game: The silicons. If security used harmful methods (which are more effective) then they lose the backing of the omniscient unstunnable robots and may even come into direct conflict with them, making their life harder. If security stay non-violent, they're fighting with one arm behind their back but at least have the silicons onside. But the most appealing, complex and ROLEPLAY producing option is for security to use violence sporadically, in secret, wherever necessary and no further. This leaves opportunity for mistakes, for subterfuge, for a facade between security and the silicons, creating a tension in every single round regardless of other outcomes, that doesn't result in anyone's destruction but can be a meaningful contribution to roleplay. This is BUILT IN TO THE FUCKING MAP with the cameraless execution chamber, again, not relying on original intent to make my point here but clearly this was thought about in the past. I never see people executed in the execution chamber anymore because they don't need to be. They get beaten to death under cameras and the AI can do nothing but cry on common for 2 minutes before being obligated to go back to validhunting.
Back to FUCKING liberalism, liberals are cursed with an absence of sociological imagination, they cannot solve systemic problems because they would no longer be liberals if they understood the abstracted harms at the heart of their system they would either accept them and become some kind of neocon, or become socialists in trying to remove them. Liberals acknowledge racism is a thing that happened and still happens, but they cannot acknowledge that the systems of power they have in place are racist. So what do they do? Affirmative fucking action. Let's just do opposite racism to push an equivalent number of minorities up to the same level as the oppressive white hegemony and everything will be solved forever! Except it doesn't fucking work, these bandaids just cause more problems to increasingly strange effect. This is what has been happening to silicon policy for four years. Every headmin decision has essentially followed the framework of "Pick the option that makes silicon less annoying to the crew" resulting in a totally neutered role with little scope for creativity or impact, and I think this is the heart of the issues we've had with validhunting and powergaming. The restricting factor on violence used to be the silicons, but they can't do this effectively anymore, so now the tools available in game are the limit rather than another faction holding a tense line and variable line against acceptable violence.
TL;DR: The ruling demonstrates that AIs are OOCly obligated to be the crews bitch to such a severe extent that it is now against the rules to purge them to put the into this ideal crew-friendly neutral state and liberalism is cringe.
-
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
If sticky gets to be communist in players club does that mean i get to be racist?
- Farquaar
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- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Why not be both?Annihilite111 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:55 am If sticky gets to be communist in players club does that mean i get to be racist?
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- BONERMASTER
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
communists club OMEGALUL
With hilarious regards
-BONERMASTER
With hilarious regards
-BONERMASTER
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- Pandarsenic
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Timonk
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Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
What happens if ai gets purged then immediately throws out the purgee, who is metagaming in that case?
joooks wrote:Quoting a legend, at least im not a faggot lolNaloac wrote:
In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.
See you in 12 months unless you blacklist me for this
Timberpoes wrote: ↑ I'm going to admin timonk [...]. Fuck it, he's also now my second host vote if goof rejects.
pikeyeskey13 wrote: ↑ ok don't forget to shove it up your ass lmao oops u can delete this one I just wanted to make sure it went through
Agux909 wrote:Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel
The hut has perished at my hands.
The pink arrow is always right.
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Then you fucked up the indiana jones idol swap and freed a vengeful silicon god from it's shackles
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
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- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Sticky, pal, friend, buddy. This is not some overarching structural issue in the very nature of the TG ruleset as we know it, that has been getting exacerbated with every headmin cycle and needs a voice of reason (yourself) to finally set the record straight. It's not that deep bro. Let me explain how the issue manifests chronologically:Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:53 am the game needs a balancing faction to restrict the violence available to people ICly. Security is too good a force at stopping antagonists without some kind of restrictions. Currently we somewhat restrict their ability to use that force, or random search, some other small OOC things like that to try to temper their ability to shut down the vast majority of antagonists if they want to. But we used to have a balancing mechanism in the game: The silicons.
1. Terry security is well-staffed and quashes antags with ease
2. AIs would prefer to do nothing rather than deal with the onslaught of pissed off security with ion guns and hulk in SAT
3. Terry sec executes antag in the halls and AI remains silent
(Bonus) 4. Sticky rages that the issue is silicon policy stifling AI and RP
This is a player and culture issue, not a ruleset issue. I've been cucked by AIs plenty of times as security on Sybil, bolting the brig for half an hour and sometimes even following me on cams to bolt me into places because I executed an antag in plain sight earlier. There are AIs that do this and rounds where this happens. They are within their rights by their "OOC lawset" to do this. But sometimes they just don't. Some AIs choose not to play this way.
If the AIs are validhunting with crew on Terry then that's another story. Maybe someone should ahelp them? AI isn't allowed to help crew find antags if harmful intent is there and will be banned for this. Either no one is ahelping because it's a part of the culture, or there's a lack of admin intervention. Again not a rule issue.
Spoiler:
- Timonk
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:27 pm
- Byond Username: Timonk
- Location: ur mum
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Time to take too long to swap and avoid metagamingStickymayhem wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:20 amThen you fucked up the indiana jones idol swap and freed a vengeful silicon god from it's shackles
joooks wrote:Quoting a legend, at least im not a faggot lolNaloac wrote:
In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.
See you in 12 months unless you blacklist me for this
Timberpoes wrote: ↑ I'm going to admin timonk [...]. Fuck it, he's also now my second host vote if goof rejects.
pikeyeskey13 wrote: ↑ ok don't forget to shove it up your ass lmao oops u can delete this one I just wanted to make sure it went through
Agux909 wrote:Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel
The hut has perished at my hands.
The pink arrow is always right.
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Time to take too long halfway through setting up the supermatter and trigger a delam!Timonk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:05 amTime to take too long to swap and avoid metagamingStickymayhem wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:20 amThen you fucked up the indiana jones idol swap and freed a vengeful silicon god from it's shackles
This is already accounted for in multiple areas of the game with administrative action. Yes it's very easy to pretend to be dumb and fuck something up but you only get away with it once.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- Stickymayhem
- Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 6:13 pm
- Byond Username: Stickymayhem
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
happy for u or sorry that happenedsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:32 amSticky, pal, friend, buddy. This is not some overarching structural issue in the very nature of the TG ruleset as we know it, that has been getting exacerbated with every headmin cycle and needs a voice of reason (yourself) to finally set the record straight. It's not that deep bro. Let me explain how the issue manifests chronologically:Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:53 am the game needs a balancing faction to restrict the violence available to people ICly. Security is too good a force at stopping antagonists without some kind of restrictions. Currently we somewhat restrict their ability to use that force, or random search, some other small OOC things like that to try to temper their ability to shut down the vast majority of antagonists if they want to. But we used to have a balancing mechanism in the game: The silicons.
1. Terry security is well-staffed and quashes antags with ease
2. AIs would prefer to do nothing rather than deal with the onslaught of pissed off security with ion guns and hulk in SAT
3. Terry sec executes antag in the halls and AI remains silent
(Bonus) 4. Sticky rages that the issue is silicon policy stifling AI and RP
This is a player and culture issue, not a ruleset issue. I've been cucked by AIs plenty of times as security on Sybil, bolting the brig for half an hour and sometimes even following me on cams to bolt me into places because I executed an antag in plain sight earlier. There are AIs that do this and rounds where this happens. They are within their rights by their "OOC lawset" to do this. But sometimes they just don't. Some AIs choose not to play this way.
If the AIs are validhunting with crew on Terry then that's another story. Maybe someone should ahelp them? AI isn't allowed to help crew find antags if harmful intent is there and will be banned for this. Either no one is ahelping because it's a part of the culture, or there's a lack of admin intervention. Again not a rule issue.
Boris wrote:Sticky is a jackass who has worms where his brain should be, but he also gets exactly what SS13 should be
- Pandarsenic
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:56 pm
- Byond Username: Pandarsenic
- Location: AI Upload
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Joke's on you I fuck up my workplaces with genuine accidents all the timeStickymayhem wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 3:24 pmTime to take too long halfway through setting up the supermatter and trigger a delam!Timonk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:05 amTime to take too long to swap and avoid metagamingStickymayhem wrote: ↑Mon Apr 11, 2022 7:20 amThen you fucked up the indiana jones idol swap and freed a vengeful silicon god from it's shackles
This is already accounted for in multiple areas of the game with administrative action. Yes it's very easy to pretend to be dumb and fuck something up but you only get away with it once.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- massa
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 6:20 am
- Byond Username: Massa100
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
sorry I don't know what the actual implications are here but are we "no longer allowed to purge AIs"?
it's metagaming? that's fine for non antags but some sillycone is going to fuck up an antag doing antag shit because rule 1 and AI lawsets aren't usually the most compatible
it's metagaming? that's fine for non antags but some sillycone is going to fuck up an antag doing antag shit because rule 1 and AI lawsets aren't usually the most compatible
- Timonk
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:27 pm
- Byond Username: Timonk
- Location: ur mum
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
yeah youre metagaming the AI lawset by stealing it
joooks wrote:Quoting a legend, at least im not a faggot lolNaloac wrote:
In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.
See you in 12 months unless you blacklist me for this
Timberpoes wrote: ↑ I'm going to admin timonk [...]. Fuck it, he's also now my second host vote if goof rejects.
pikeyeskey13 wrote: ↑ ok don't forget to shove it up your ass lmao oops u can delete this one I just wanted to make sure it went through
Agux909 wrote:Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel
The hut has perished at my hands.
The pink arrow is always right.
- Timonk
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:27 pm
- Byond Username: Timonk
- Location: ur mum
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
When do we make researching mining within the first 20 minutes metagaming
joooks wrote:Quoting a legend, at least im not a faggot lolNaloac wrote:
In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.
See you in 12 months unless you blacklist me for this
Timberpoes wrote: ↑ I'm going to admin timonk [...]. Fuck it, he's also now my second host vote if goof rejects.
pikeyeskey13 wrote: ↑ ok don't forget to shove it up your ass lmao oops u can delete this one I just wanted to make sure it went through
Agux909 wrote:Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel
The hut has perished at my hands.
The pink arrow is always right.
- Jonathan Gupta
- Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:16 pm
- Byond Username: BallastMonsterGnarGnar
- Location: The Corner
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
never?
- Timonk
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:27 pm
- Byond Username: Timonk
- Location: ur mum
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Never say never
Besides that mat rushing heavily fucks over antags
joooks wrote:Quoting a legend, at least im not a faggot lolNaloac wrote:
In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.
See you in 12 months unless you blacklist me for this
Timberpoes wrote: ↑ I'm going to admin timonk [...]. Fuck it, he's also now my second host vote if goof rejects.
pikeyeskey13 wrote: ↑ ok don't forget to shove it up your ass lmao oops u can delete this one I just wanted to make sure it went through
Agux909 wrote:Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel
The hut has perished at my hands.
The pink arrow is always right.
- Rohen_Tahir
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- Byond Username: Rohen Tahir
- Location: Primary fool storage
- Contact:
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
Yeah and joining the game is a rule 8 violation because the human sprites have nipples.
-
- Forum Soft Banned
- Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:27 am
- Byond Username: Cacogen
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
if you see a female chest lying on the floor which is just portable tits and therefore hilarious and you point this out to other players they will admonish you for breaking rule 8 even though you just pointed to a pair of tits and said "tits"
- XivilaiAnaxes
- Joined: Sat May 11, 2019 7:13 am
- Byond Username: XivilaiAnaxes
Re: @StickyMayhem, AI policy
lmao basedStickymayhem wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:53 amBack to FUCKING liberalism, liberals are cursed with an absence of sociological imagination, they cannot solve systemic problems because they would no longer be liberals if they understood the abstracted harms at the heart of their system they would either accept them and become some kind of neocon, or become socialists in trying to remove them. Liberals acknowledge racism is a thing that happened and still happens, but they cannot acknowledge that the systems of power they have in place are racist. So what do they do? Affirmative fucking action. Let's just do opposite racism to push an equivalent number of minorities up to the same level as the oppressive white hegemony and everything will be solved forever! Except it doesn't fucking work, these bandaids just cause more problems to increasingly strange effect. This is what has been happening to silicon policy for four years. Every headmin decision has essentially followed the framework of "Pick the option that makes silicon less annoying to the crew" resulting in a totally neutered role with little scope for creativity or impact, and I think this is the heart of the issues we've had with validhunting and powergaming. The restricting factor on violence used to be the silicons, but they can't do this effectively anymore, so now the tools available in game are the limit rather than another faction holding a tense line and variable line against acceptable violence.
Stickymayhem wrote:Imagine the sheer narcisssim required to genuinely believe you are this intelligent.
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