/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:23 am**

viewtopic.php?t=31543

man with a previous note for escalation cops perma for recalling shuttle twice and killing CMO that tried to stop him (as traitor)

even for manuel this seems pretty dicey

I now see the reason Timber made the rebuild of RP restrictions thread

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:11 am**

I like manuel ban appeals they remind me of hippiestation ban appeals

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:17 am**

Reminder that this is what c*ders want for the game and why they want to push all servers to MRP.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:17 am**

Murderboner is when you don't let the dude with the fire axe give you at least one good swing for the combat logs before you end his whole career.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:34 am**

Bonus points for the codermin peanutting on the appeals thread. Epic.
I can't speak to this guys previous behavior but he did literally nothing wrong here. Pirates aren't a round ending threat, and calling because three scary skeletons are coming for your booty is cringe of the highest order. Killing some dude who attacks you also doesn't seem questionable.
YBS should have recalled that damn shuttle himself and sent an announcement stating that abandoning the station to a tiny pirate raid would result in the immediate firing and lawsuit of the command staff.

EDIT: YBS seems like a chill dude from what i've seen of him. We probably should hear his side before peanutting

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:09 am**

Aggregious

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:16 am**

Once again, we're either missing information or this is a fulp-tier ban.
Killing one guy who witnessed you having contraband / committing crimes is not a rule one violation.
Recalling the shuttle when the station isn't a complete mess is not a rule one violation.
YBS seems like a good admin from my- admittedly limited- interactions with them, so we're almost definitely missing something.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:30 am**

your ban sucks lol

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:12 am**

YBS is a good guy, keep in mind he is a trialmin(Not even a month in I believe) you cant make all W's.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:36 am**

MANNY MOMENT

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:47 am**

a message to the stockholm'd or housebroken mannie players who cannot endure more utterly insane bans:

sybil is always open to you. we will take care of you and treat you right. you do not have to stay in this abusive relationship. even our admins, they're not like the ones over there, they are us, not our police. there ARE treatment options available and MRP does not have to be a terminal condition. you can get your life and joy back, just stop by terry or sybil.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:31 pm**

massa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:47 am sybil is always open to you.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:36 pm**

Annihilite111 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:34 am Bonus points for the codermin peanutting on the appeals thread. Epic.
I can't speak to this guys previous behavior but he did literally nothing wrong here. Pirates aren't a round ending threat, and calling because three scary skeletons are coming for your booty is cringe of the highest order. Killing some dude who attacks you also doesn't seem questionable.
YBS should have recalled that damn shuttle himself and sent an announcement stating that abandoning the station to a tiny pirate raid would result in the immediate firing and lawsuit of the command staff.

I agree with you that I missed a chance to take a dumb situation and make it more interesting on this one. I'll keep an expansion of this idea in my back pocket, thanks.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:02 pm**

What the fuck is tc uplink farming?

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:49 pm**

HOLY SHIT THE MANNYMINS DID IT AGAIN AND TOOK WHAT SHOULD BE LIKE A 3 HOUR BAN MAX AND TURNED IT INTO A PERMA BECAUSE HE GOT A DAY BAN 4 MONTHS AGO

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:58 pm**

Boot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:02 pm What the fuck is tc uplink farming?

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/66266

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:47 pm**

Hundreds of hours between notes matters just as much if not more than raw time between notes. Most players don't get hundreds of hours in weeks or months, so their notes are spread out over a much longer time period and weighted less.

If notes are just to record a behavior to ensure it isn't repeated, then how come all these wildly different notes are being smushed under "rule 1" and used as justification for a perma? Can't all notes be considered "bad faith behavior"? Also 0 work was done to show the condition of the station and whether or not it deserved a shuttle call, beyond Vekter saying "uhh comms were probably down."

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:09 pm**

This ban is quite ungregious in my opinion. The way the note was wordled is also a little

.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:28 pm**

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:47 pm Also 0 work was done to show the condition of the station and whether or not it deserved a shuttle call, beyond Vekter saying "uhh comms were probably down."

We also have the banned player in question dying in a depressurized maintenance tunnel. So something was definitely broken.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:13 pm**

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:47 pm then how come all these wildly different notes are being smushed under "rule 1" and used as justification for a perma? Can't all notes be considered "bad faith behavior"?

This.

Also it seems like YBS is saying that the only reason he was banned was for note history when he said "The current permanent ban was set in place after reviewing your pattern of recorded behavior this year." which is very questionable.
Has anyone been perma banned based on history alone before? I've always seen people getting banned for a rulebreak + history but never history alone.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:16 pm**

YBS wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:36 pm
Annihilite111 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:34 am Bonus points for the codermin peanutting on the appeals thread. Epic.
I can't speak to this guys previous behavior but he did literally nothing wrong here. Pirates aren't a round ending threat, and calling because three scary skeletons are coming for your booty is cringe of the highest order. Killing some dude who attacks you also doesn't seem questionable.
YBS should have recalled that damn shuttle himself and sent an announcement stating that abandoning the station to a tiny pirate raid would result in the immediate firing and lawsuit of the command staff.
I agree with you that I missed a chance to take a dumb situation and make it more interesting on this one. I'll keep an expansion of this idea in my back pocket, thanks.

Now this is what i like to hear.
Also the recalls were pretty shitty if station was already spaced. The appeal made it sound as if it was just "normal manny round with like one traitor stealing stuff no one needs" and captain called it as soon as an actual threat to the bar rp showed up. I have a bad habit of drawing conclusions without knowing the full story.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:18 pm**

Tearling wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:13 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:47 pm then how come all these wildly different notes are being smushed under "rule 1" and used as justification for a perma? Can't all notes be considered "bad faith behavior"?
This.

Also it seems like YBS is saying that the only reason he was banned was for note history when he said "The current permanent ban was set in place after reviewing your pattern of recorded behavior this year." which is very questionable.
Has anyone been perma banned based on history alone before? I've always seen people getting banned for a rulebreak + history but never history alone.

I think he meant that it was mainly based on history with this incident which would normally only result in a note being the tipping point.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:58 pm**

Annihilite111 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:18 pm
Tearling wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:13 pm
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:47 pm then how come all these wildly different notes are being smushed under "rule 1" and used as justification for a perma? Can't all notes be considered "bad faith behavior"?
This.

Also it seems like YBS is saying that the only reason he was banned was for note history when he said "The current permanent ban was set in place after reviewing your pattern of recorded behavior this year." which is very questionable.
Has anyone been perma banned based on history alone before? I've always seen people getting banned for a rulebreak + history but never history alone.
I think he meant that it was mainly based on history with this incident which would normally only result in a note being the tipping point.

I would agree if he didn't say

YBS wrote:That being said, that ‘bad draft’ ban and this current permanent ban are mutually exclusive issues

Basically even if this bad draft ban is an error, he's still perma banning him because of note history as you can see when YBS went into further detail:

YBS wrote:I have since removed that ban, well before the time to this appeal. Please let me know if it is still showing up on your record and I will work with the admin team to have it struck from record, because I agree with you that it is not accurate.

Despite acknowledging that it was an error YBS went on to say:

YBS wrote:The very fact that you have responded to the claim with indignant confusion, without even a hint of apologetic self-understanding leads me to confirm my suspicions that you are currently not in the right mindset to change this pattern of in-game behavior.

Which is outright dishonest. How do you make an error, acknowledge the error and fix it, then retroactively act like their confusion over that error is evidence that they are dishonest/"not in the right mindset"?

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:12 pm**

I'm not really sure how I feel about the ban. His history absolutely sucks, and recalling the shuttle when everyone else wants to leave is pretty fucked, but I don't like how YBS handled it in general. We'll see what the heads say but I'm not sure this should stick.

boot wrote:Reminder that this is what c*ders want for the game and why they want to push all servers to MRP.

You're the most delusional player on the servers right now. Timber was even saying earlier how he wants to pull the MRP servers back towards being an easier-to-enjoy experience for LRP players.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:23 pm**

Going to recite a few of my usual points:

1) If they bug abused to get infinite TCs and did something funny for it, BASED
2) If they bug abused to get infinite TCs and did something shitty with it, get 'em tf outta here
3) If they have a real pattern of bad behavior, and it really is a pattern, you always, always gotta wait for them to actually do something bad enough to justify a real hammer drop. If they're really that bad, it's just a matter of when, not if. If something bad enough to really deserve that drop never comes, then they're getting better and the administrative responses are working.

Permabans when they didn't actually justify that level of punishment are unnecessary for players who are trying and succeeding at actually improving, and they make it harder to stick deserved bans to serial shitters later because they now have evidence that they're being treated unfairly by admins.

I read YBS's post and I'm just not really clear on what exactly happened to warrant a permaban here? One kill and then the pirates got to actually play the game, or what?

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:48 pm**

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:12 pm
boot wrote:Reminder that this is what c*ders want for the game and why they want to push all servers to MRP.
You're the most delusional player on the servers right now. Timber was even saying earlier how he wants to pull the MRP servers back towards being an easier-to-enjoy experience for LRP players.

Timber is the also the only lad standing against the slippery slope leading to 1984 and the only headmin who kept their promises to add sharkgirls. They are the expection that proves the rule of just how shit c*ders and m*annies truly are. There is a reason why god himself picked Timber to be their voice on this earth.

Posted: **Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:06 pm**

Boot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:48 pm
Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:12 pm
boot wrote:Reminder that this is what c*ders want for the game and why they want to push all servers to MRP.
You're the most delusional player on the servers right now. Timber was even saying earlier how he wants to pull the MRP servers back towards being an easier-to-enjoy experience for LRP players.
Timber is the also the only lad standing against the slippery slope leading to 1984 and the only headmin who kept their promises to add sharkgirls. They are the expection that proves the rule of just how shit c*ders and m*annies truly are. There is a reason why god himself picked Timber to be their voice on this earth.

I take it back, you're not delusional, you're just goofy as fuck.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:02 am**

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:06 pm I take it back, you're not delusional, you're just goofy as fuck.

I hear this in Raiden Metal Gear's voice

But back on the ban to throw peanuts at, I really wonder what we would see if Pieguy made the ticket correspondence open to viewing. If the station is already suffering serious atmos problems and telecomms failure, while I think telecomms is very easy to fix, few people have read my guide on how so it's not 100% reasonable to expect people to Just Fix It, especially when even GETTING the stuff you need can be a struggle once the pirates show up.

That said, a bit more specific in my peanuting...

► Show Spoiler

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:02 am**

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:06 pm I take it back, you're not delusional, you're just goofy as fuck.

I hear this in Raiden Metal Gear's voice

But back on the ban to throw peanuts at, I really wonder what we would see if Pieguy made the ticket correspondence open to viewing. If the station is already suffering serious atmos problems and telecomms failure, while I think telecomms is very easy to fix, few people have read my guide on how so it's not 100% reasonable to expect people to Just Fix It, especially when even GETTING the stuff you need can be a struggle once the pirates show up.

That said, a bit more specific in my peanuting...

► Show Spoiler

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:56 am**

YBS wrote:I have both deleted the antagonist ban due to it's invalid nature and edited the wording of the inciting event to this ban. The note to this now reads:
[MRP] As Traitor, Warned about putting the station in a shuttle-recall loop while station was inhospitable (deadly atmos, tcomms down). (Rule 1)

YBS wrote:That being said, I am still convinced that I'm right about you as a player, regardless of headmin decision.

Based result.
If you see this YBS I think your choice to reverse the ban is a good one, and that your opinion of them being a bad player is also probably true, but hopefully they prove their history wrong.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:00 am**

cant admins just fucking ban people from JUST manuel

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:25 am**

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:00 am cant admins just fucking ban people from JUST manuel

No, because it creates this sort of idea that the LRP servers are a "containment server" and there's already enough separation between the LRP and MRP players that this would just worsen it.

That wouldn't even really apply anything here anyway - recalling the shuttle for goofy personal reasons when everyone else wants to leave is still rule 1.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:09 am**

Definitely a weird one. Can't really say if it's a warranted ban or not given a lot isn't player facing. Kudos to YBS for having enough faith in their discretion to stand by their ban as it goes to headmins, I think they explained their reasoning pretty well. Although I'd suggest trying to be a bit more casual, it's just a game after all.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:09 am**

Pandarsenic wrote:3) If they have a real pattern of bad behavior, and it really is a pattern, you always, always gotta wait for them to actually do something bad enough to justify a real hammer drop. If they're really that bad, it's just a matter of when, not if. If something bad enough to really deserve that drop never comes, then they're getting better and the administrative responses are working.

This is a great point.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:23 am**

Jesus the longer this goes the worse it gets.

YBS wrote:My actions and decisions after this came from observing his account history, researching his bans and making a judgement call based on his tone both in tickets and this appeal to determine if he is a player that could be guided to better gameplay habits. I decided that he wasn't, which leads us to the ban currently in place.

Since when does an admin retroactively permaban someone based on their own "continued research" outside of the round, long after the ban? Once he was asked to stop recalling, he listened - is that not good ahelp conduct? Then was antag banned, and then in the ban-research lab YBS unilaterally decided he should be permabanned based on notes. You shouldn't be making that sort of decision post facto, much less after already messing up the ban and writing an entirely inaccurate ban reason of "killing everyone."

Incredibly odd decisions here all around.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:11 am**

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:23 am Incredibly odd decisions here all around.

I just don't know where one gets off with a ban at all, let alone a permaban. Shitpost or not, using daybans from 4 months ago and a bunch of literal notes as fuel for a perma after killing one person is ridiculous and insane.

This dude also sounds like a running riot so he'd be a good time on sybil. I'm struggling to delineate a difference between MRP and LRP. The only difference is weird rules about murder, and on MRP people speak a bit more coherently so their unhinged and insane SS13 behavior becomes more palatable to the superficial, and people who enjoy policing behavior/imposing decorum.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:23 am**

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:25 am No, because it creates this sort of idea that the LRP servers are a "containment server" and there's already enough separation between the LRP and MRP players that this would just worsen it.

"Why contain it?"

With conspiring regards
-BONERMASTER

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:03 am**

As the AI in this round who watched the whole thing I'd like to clarify that Jerry spent a whole lot of time lurking around the comms consoles doing absolutely nothing except recalling the shuttle and went to a bunch of effort to break into/out of caps office and steal that board then take it to a non-depowered area just to recall again its not like he just showed up partway through doing other shit, he was just extending the shuttle timer on a low-sec round that was undergoing significant derailing already (99% sure that was the round where an atmos tech tried to frame me by doing something fucky with the air that set off every alarm on station when I went to get lunch)

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:14 pm**

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:23 am
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:25 am No, because it creates this sort of idea that the LRP servers are a "containment server" and there's already enough separation between the LRP and MRP players that this would just worsen it.
"Why contain it?"

With conspiring regards
-BONERMASTER

Desperate. Your turn.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:14 pm**

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:14 pm Desperate. Your turn.

Powerattack +10, Fullattack.

Let's see here:

Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20
Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20
Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20
Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20
Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20

I'm not so good with calculating the damage, could you help me with that? That'd be really appreciated! Oh and we're using my dice, hehe!

With fair regards
-BONERMASTER

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:43 pm**

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:14 pm
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:14 pm Desperate. Your turn.
Powerattack +10, Fullattack.

Let's see here:

Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20
Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20
Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20
Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20
Nat 20, critical confirmed with 20

I'm not so good with calculating the damage, could you help me with that? That'd be really appreciated! Oh and we're using my dice, hehe!

With fair regards
-BONERMASTER

I don't know what I expected as a response, but this wasn't it.

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