Read at your own risk peanut - I regret this

[Tearling]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31656

On the surface how the fuck did this guy get banned.
This can't be a metagrudge on thoman's part because thoman was escalating based on something FormorA did IN THE ROUND.
And then the appeal gets denied for, and I quote, "but you both showed an in-game failure to understand how to avoid metagrudge conflict and poor, low-comm escalation routines."

Is there something in the logs I'm not seeing? This could be an escalation problem, but a metagrudge problem when Thoman was the one attacked? This is weird.

[toemas]

whats funny is that this guy literally does stuff like this to random people every round, open any log file with this guy in it and you'll see that he just devotes his entire shift to making the shift as miserable as possible for others. i believe he literally got into ANOTHER ticket in the SAME ROUND because he fireaxed a guy to death for hacking a door. when i talked about this ban in the /tg/cord like three other people said the guy was fucking with them too that round

[Kendrickorium]

in situations like this, where someone is genuinely a routine shitter, you can take comfort that their permaban is a matter of when, not if

i've noticed the admins are really good at getting rid of the shitters that refuse to change

[massa]

these admins keep hitting homeruns on fulp level bans lmao

[Boot]

> if you just died and sat the round out I wouldn't have banned you but you fought back against the guy randomly murdering you

Man and here I thought that seeing one deadminning was already wild enough. Phillip better have the worst note history known to man to justify this level of shittery.

[wesoda25]

I just feel bad about his ooc ban

[cacogen]

[2022-05-03 04:12:35.085] realthoman (as Phillip Thomas at 147,106,4) in tgui-window-1
- Using: /datum/tgui_input_text [0x2108f037]
- Action: submit {"entry":"im gonna fuck you"}

Why did he say this from the fourth dimension

[Kendrickorium]

i'm pretty sure philip doesn't have the best note history but he's a fun character that usually knows when to back off of something, so if he's appealing, i believe he genuinely thinks hes being treated unfairly

[Kendrickorium]

also whats with the influx of "he metagrudge me" appeals?

simply let the offender do a bunch of shit to you, do not retaliate in any way, immediately ahelp and tell the admin you have had trouble with this person and they are once again initiating conflict.
admin reads logs, boom problem solved
even better, tell the person simply "stop" while they are instigating
the worst thing you can do to prove that a person is metagrudging you is retaliating

THIS IS SO SIMPLE

[toemas]

also whats with the influx of "he metagrudge me" appeals?

simply let the offender do a bunch of shit to you, do not retaliate in any way, immediately ahelp and tell the admin you have had trouble with this person and they are once again initiating conflict.
admin reads logs, boom problem solved
even better, tell the person simply "stop" while they are instigating
the worst thing you can do to prove that a person is metagrudging you is retaliating

THIS IS SO SIMPLE

because ahelping isnt as gratifying as just beating up the guy, even though its the better option

[Tearling]

i'm pretty sure philip doesn't have the best note history but he's a fun character that usually knows when to back off of something, so if he's appealing, i believe he genuinely thinks hes being treated unfairly

I think he is too, based on what was posted so far.

[Kendrickorium]

also whats with the influx of "he metagrudge me" appeals?

simply let the offender do a bunch of shit to you, do not retaliate in any way, immediately ahelp and tell the admin you have had trouble with this person and they are once again initiating conflict.
admin reads logs, boom problem solved
even better, tell the person simply "stop" while they are instigating
the worst thing you can do to prove that a person is metagrudging you is retaliating

THIS IS SO SIMPLE

because ahelping isnt as gratifying as just beating up the guy, even though its the better option

trust me philip, it's much more gratifying to watch a shitter get banned or permad for being a shitter. take the proper steps and let the admins do their work

[toemas]

trust me philip, its much more gratifying to watch a shitter get banned or permad for being a shitter. take the proper steps and let the admins do their work

But i click on spaceman and he die and i laugh

[Kendrickorium]

trust me philip, its much more gratifying to watch a shitter get banned or permad for being a shitter. take the proper steps and let the admins do their work

But i click on spaceman and he die and i laugh

no philip

[sinfulbliss]

Someone needs to speak to YBS, jesus christ. There are so many places where this is just insane behavior for an admin to take. As a whole their conduct reads as over-controlling and stepping in where they absolutely don't need to step in, but there's a whole list of places where their behavior is just wrong.

1) "im told by the admin that hes going to review the logs tomorrow." Since when do admins make retroactive bans like this? This already happened with pipeguy where they banned them after "reviewing their notes" at home. Admins make bans that round or a round later after they've looked into things. I've never heard of an admin taking a day to review someone's history, the logs, and then dish out a post-hoc ban. It's like some bizarre quality-review on players being entrusted to someone who's only supposed to be there to make sure the round is under control.

2) Accusation of violating rule 8??? To accuse them of breaking rule 8 in the ticket for what is so very obviously a nonsexual comment is ridiculous and reads like they're just tossing shit at the player hoping something sticks. The fact they make no mention of this anywhere on the appeal or ban note shows they didn't take it seriously either, but then why accuse them of it? Terrible conduct.

3) Leaking the ban of another player who hasn't appealed. If you need to leak another player's ban to justify yourself, maybe that's a sign you did something wrong. It wasn't a permaban and Pandan didn't appeal their ban yet to my knowledge, how is it okay to leak this?

It is relevant to know that FormorA is currently serving a ban of their own for metagrudging, baiting metagrudge behavior and breaking rule 1 - just so it's clear that everyone in involved has seen action fitting their history and actions in round.

4) Accusing both (?) players of banbaiting. Thomas was hit in the head with a fireaxe FNR, ahelped, didn't get a response, and then chose to resolve it IC by going after them. Seems reasonable, right? Not according to YBS. YBS claims this is "easily read as fringing into OOC with a real grudge against one another from points already passed." What does that even mean? Apparently they should have just taken their beating, and hid in dorms until YBS decided to respond to their ahelp, because pursuing it IC was "metagrudging" since they had history with this player. The absolute insane gaps in logic required to get to this conclusion is mind-boggling honestly.

When you know you are in this kind of situation and you have no healthy IC recourse, keeping a cooler head and waiting for intervention would have been the right call, or even taking the high road and avoiding further confrontation - let Pan dig their own grave

You always have a healthy IC recourse. If someone breaks the rules by attacking you with a fireaxe FNR, you are allowed to attack them back. To suggest you're not even allowed to attack them back, and you must wait for an AFK admin to return and handle your ticket before you can do anything, is completely wrong and I hope an admin talks to YBS about this because it's insane.

[Pandarsenic]

OH MY GOD I JUST REALIZED WHERE I RECOGNIZED THE NAME FROM

whats funny is that this guy literally does stuff like this to random people every round, open any log file with this guy in it and you'll see that he just devotes his entire shift to making the shift as miserable as possible for others. i believe he literally got into ANOTHER ticket in the SAME ROUND because he fireaxed a guy to death for hacking a door. when i talked about this ban in the /tg/cord like three other people said the guy was fucking with them too that round

It's fucking PAN DAN. One of the most unpleasant, obnoxious griefers I've ever had the displeasure to share /tg/station with. He's the guy who constantly fills main hallways with walls and shit like that.

[Tearling]

Someone needs to speak to YBS, jesus christ.

Honestly I completely agree on the surface, but for all we know thoman might have said some very bad things in the ahelp, maybe? There could always be something we don't hear about until the headmins step in.

[Jonathan Gupta]

For refrence Pan Dan got banned from fulp for telling people to "Strip" as a heretic.

[Jonathan Gupta]

but come on Thomas, you are acting like a damn kid with this. It pisses me off a bit how much you act like this.

[Jonathan Gupta]

But I dunno feels like a bad opinion disregard it.

[Jonathan Gupta]

the worst thing is he's unrobust

[massa]

mf gupta comes at people for posting a whole ass paragraph then posts 4 times in a row

[sinfulbliss]

Someone needs to speak to YBS, jesus christ.

Honestly I completely agree on the surface, but for all we know thoman might have said some very bad things in the ahelp, maybe? There could always be something we don't hear about until the headmins step in.

Why would you hold off agreeing over info we don't even have, and that we have no reason to believe exists? "um maybe Thoman was mean in ahelps though...?" Like go off what you have and express your opinion from that. This honestly reads like you're just afraid of disagreeing with admins.

[Tearling]

Someone needs to speak to YBS, jesus christ.

Honestly I completely agree on the surface, but for all we know thoman might have said some very bad things in the ahelp, maybe? There could always be something we don't hear about until the headmins step in.

Why would you hold off agreeing over info we don't even have, and that we have no reason to believe exists? "um maybe Thoman was mean in ahelps though...?" Like go off what you have and express your opinion from that. This honestly reads like you're just afraid of disagreeing with admins.

Because it's pretty common for some info to be withheld. Honestly the most surprising part about this whole thing in my mind is that YBS opened the ban appeal with releasing some of that leaked info, specifically what you mentioned about it not being common practice to reveal other people's ban details.

Just take the recent admiral case for example, although that went the opposite way around and turned out to be even worst than we expected with the whole secret notes fiasco.

If it turns out thoman outright admitted to metagruding in ahelps, and the admin is withholding that information because he doesn't have permission, it'd look pretty stupid to say thoman did nothing wrong, right? I'm afraid of looking stupid in a situation like that.

[massa]

Someone needs to speak to YBS, jesus christ.

Honestly I completely agree on the surface, but for all we know thoman might have said some very bad things in the ahelp, maybe? There could always be something we don't hear about until the headmins step in.

Why would you hold off agreeing over info we don't even have, and that we have no reason to believe exists? "um maybe Thoman was mean in ahelps though...?" Like go off what you have and express your opinion from that. This honestly reads like you're just afraid of disagreeing with admins.

Because it's pretty common for some info to be withheld. Honestly the most surprising part about this whole thing in my mind is that YBS opened the ban appeal with releasing some of that leaked info, specifically what you mentioned about it not being common practice to reveal other people's ban details.

Just take the recent admiral case for example, although that went the opposite way around and turned out to be even worst than we expected with the whole secret notes fiasco.

If it turns out thoman outright admitted to metagruding in ahelps, and the admin is withholding that information because he doesn't have permission, it'd look pretty stupid to say thoman did nothing wrong, right? I'm afraid of looking stupid in a situation like that.

The fact you can even excuse this control freak behavior is alarming on its own.

[toemas]

Honestly I completely agree on the surface, but for all we know thoman might have said some very bad things in the ahelp, maybe? There could always be something we don't hear about until the headmins step in.

yeah sorry, i sent the admin several threats of violence and murder in the ahelp and i forgot to include this in the appeal. my bad

[jortsandshirts]

YBS, was there a promotion in the navy? Just looking at this from an objective viewpoint it looks like you've got promoted.
Guess the old Admiral retired or something.

What's up with the Laserpowered Hyperhitlers lately. Hell as mothqoob pointed out YBS isn't even aware his explanation is verifiably false. Like, straight up just guessing and making shit up to play it off like his ban isn't ass. It's an ass ban YBS, total ass. Blind ass total ass banning ban ass. Mr Magoo looking googly eyed blind ass. Powertripping can't understand you're in the wrong ass.

Not only is your justification for the ban absolutely dogshit but so is your response. Don't get on his ass for "here is also the line that you have a problem managing your temper in a way that crosses over into IC, OOC and ahelps " when he's got some memespewing metagrudge slut shitting on his breakfast bagel only to be unfortunate enough to lose at the ahelp roulette table and land on 00, which is two zero's, which is ass, that's you. Ass.
I propose as an alternative to downright deadminning shitmins they be given admin bans. No magic gigahitler powers to bully with until you learn better judgement and possibly how to read a log. Ass.

Residue leaving ass, Mr Magoo can't read the logs ass. Uphold the appeal and check for secret notes, look for the residue.

[Jonathan Gupta]

mf gupta comes at people for posting a whole ass paragraph then posts 4 times in a row

I post short sentences.

[Jonathan Gupta]

snip

what the fuck are you talking about, there was no promotion in the navy. Thomas has no secret notes that anyone knows of and they woulda included any info if it was relevant to the appeal.

[Annihilite111]

Someone needs to speak to YBS, jesus christ.

Honestly I completely agree on the surface, but for all we know thoman might have said some very bad things in the ahelp, maybe? There could always be something we don't hear about until the headmins step in.

Why would you hold off agreeing over info we don't even have, and that we have no reason to believe exists? "um maybe Thoman was mean in ahelps though...?" Like go off what you have and express your opinion from that. This honestly reads like you're just afraid of disagreeing with admins.

Because it's pretty common for some info to be withheld. Honestly the most surprising part about this whole thing in my mind is that YBS opened the ban appeal with releasing some of that leaked info, specifically what you mentioned about it not being common practice to reveal other people's ban details.

Just take the recent admiral case for example, although that went the opposite way around and turned out to be even worst than we expected with the whole secret notes fiasco.

If it turns out thoman outright admitted to metagruding in ahelps, and the admin is withholding that information because he doesn't have permission, it'd look pretty stupid to say thoman did nothing wrong, right? I'm afraid of looking stupid in a situation like that.

The fact you can even excuse this control freak behavior is alarming on its own.

Pretty sure he's shooting for admin, in which case joining the reactionary outrage crowd would be a mark against him. Wait for the headmin statement before making antagonising remarks against the admin since we haven't gotten the full story yet. It's reasonable to act as if there's more information in a context where more information is very often provided by headmins.

[Tearling]

Someone needs to speak to YBS, jesus christ.

Honestly I completely agree on the surface, but for all we know thoman might have said some very bad things in the ahelp, maybe? There could always be something we don't hear about until the headmins step in.

Why would you hold off agreeing over info we don't even have, and that we have no reason to believe exists? "um maybe Thoman was mean in ahelps though...?" Like go off what you have and express your opinion from that. This honestly reads like you're just afraid of disagreeing with admins.

Because it's pretty common for some info to be withheld. Honestly the most surprising part about this whole thing in my mind is that YBS opened the ban appeal with releasing some of that leaked info, specifically what you mentioned about it not being common practice to reveal other people's ban details.

Just take the recent admiral case for example, although that went the opposite way around and turned out to be even worst than we expected with the whole secret notes fiasco.

If it turns out thoman outright admitted to metagruding in ahelps, and the admin is withholding that information because he doesn't have permission, it'd look pretty stupid to say thoman did nothing wrong, right? I'm afraid of looking stupid in a situation like that.

The fact you can even excuse this control freak behavior is alarming on its own.

What do you mean excuse his behavior? I'm saying you shouldn't start calling him a nazi based on information less than a week old, but I've maintained that with the information we have so far it looks bad for him, read the first thing I said on this thread a few dozen times to try and understand that you borderline redditor.


-Edit*
WOW, What would you know, it turns out the moments the headmin steps in we get clarification on something that happened, that changes the story. Now it's obvious that thoman ahelped after getting killbaited and robusted, meaning that he tried to solve it ICLY and when that failed he tried to solve it with ahelps. To be fair it still looks like a bad ban, but that was probably the biggest issue with the whole affair.

[Tearling]

Pretty sure he's shooting for admin, in which case joining the reactionary outrage crowd would be a mark against him. Wait for the headmin statement before making antagonising remarks against the admin since we haven't gotten the full story yet. It's reasonable to act as if there's more information in a context where more information is very often provided by headmins.

I thought I was actually getting ahead of myself because I was the one who started the thread, little did I know I would be the one playing the admin sympathizer just because I want to wait for more information before crucifying YBS. Jesus christ.

[toemas]

WOW, What would you know, it turns out the moments the headmin steps in we get clarification on something that happened, that changes the story. Now it's obvious that thoman ahelped after getting killbaited and robusted, meaning that he tried to solve it ICLY and when that failed he tried to solve it with ahelps. To be fair it still looks like a bad ban, but that was probably the biggest issue with the whole affair.

i never said otherwise, i clarified that i ahelped AFTER being killed both in the ban appeal and the reply to his post, and i dont think it changes the fact that i got killbaited and metagrudged, then got round removed over a conflict i did not start [improper escalation] and then banned for ahelping it

[massa]

What do you mean excuse his behavior? I'm saying you shouldn't start calling him a nazi based on information less than a week old, but I've maintained that with the information we have so far it looks bad for him, read the first thing I said on this thread a few dozen times to try and understand that you borderline redditor.


-Edit*
WOW, What would you know, it turns out the moments the headmin steps in we get clarification on something that happened, that changes the story. Now it's obvious that thoman ahelped after getting killbaited and robusted, meaning that he tried to solve it ICLY and when that failed he tried to solve it with ahelps. To be fair it still looks like a bad ban, but that was probably the biggest issue with the whole affair.

To the first thing you said, you need institutional help because you have the American mind virus and the brainrot is so deep that there is no possible hope of correcting that course. YBS' recent claps have been some Fulp tier shit. Complete silliness. The control freakishness alone is really fucking weird, let alone the aggressive refusal to even hear the input of the ahelping party, forget about investigating the claims of players who play in good faith and have reputations on the server.

The second thing, your grand revelation, was information we've been working with since the get-go. Thoman made all of this clear immediately.

[jortsandshirts]

WOW, What would you know, it turns out the moments the headmin steps in we get clarification on something that happened, that changes the story. Now it's obvious that thoman ahelped after getting killbaited and robusted, meaning that he tried to solve it ICLY and when that failed he tried to solve it with ahelps. To be fair it still looks like a bad ban, but that was probably the biggest issue with the whole affair.

i never said otherwise, i clarified that i ahelped AFTER being killed both in the ban appeal and the reply to his post, and i dont think it changes the fact that i got killbaited and metagrudged, then got round removed over a conflict i did not start [improper escalation] and then banned for ahelping it

You want me to write that up in a way that Mothblocks snipes YBS so they don't have to finish reading it? I got time.

[Tearling]

i never said otherwise, i clarified that i ahelped AFTER being killed both in the ban appeal and the reply to his post, and i dont think it changes the fact that i got killbaited and metagrudged, then got round removed over a conflict i did not start [improper escalation] and then banned for ahelping it

The second thing, your grand revelation, was information we've been working with since the get-go. Thoman made all of this clear immediately.

Notice how this argument started over me not jumping on the YBS hate train because of...

4) Accusing both (?) players of banbaiting. Thomas was hit in the head with a fireaxe FNR, ahelped, didn't get a response, and then chose to resolve it IC by going after them.

Which turned out to be the wrong assumption, an assumption which I very clearly stated "There could always be something we don't hear about until the headmins step in." to in response. Come on guys.

[Jonathan Gupta]

YBS is a good guy, and to repeat what tearling said wait for everything to come out.

[wesoda25]

From what I can tell I think it's all come out at this point and yea this is banbaiting from Pan.

edit: actually I suppose if Pan didn't ahelp it's just kill baiting

[wesoda25]

Like YBS obviously the proper course would be for Thomas to take the high road but that is an unrealistic expectation when the person he's dealing with is clearly trying to piss him off. If someone tells me to cope and hits me with a wielded fire axe I am going to get extremely pissed off. If they tell me to kill myself when I try and get my revenge (borderline OOC rule break btw) then it's likely that all rational thought goes out the window.

Worst thing Phillip did was trying to say he was going to fuck them, at least from those logs posted in the appeal. (and btw if you take issue with that its perfectly fine to take action over it)

Im re-reading the appeal and the most important thing here I think is this:

"I got hit with a fireaxe, and spent the rest of my living shift grudging and initiating conflict with the guy I felt slighted by." - YBS

Ofc he should feel slighted by them!! Why on earth wouldn't he!! Have some sympathy man I think you're being majorly unfair here, I hope you review your stance @ybs

[toemas]

thank you wesoda

[jortsandshirts]

YBS, do you even play this game? I'm only asking because you sure don't "get" it.
Oh, this makes good sense and should be taken into consideration as to why you're being a no-fun-banbot-fuckwit.

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/ckey/YBS

Oof.

You don't even play this game. I mean you straight up don't.
Out of 800 some odd rounds you just idled through 300 of them "observing" You got a health lot of extreme lowpop and too much manuel for my liking.

I'll tell you what 3 letter man, I'm not gonna trust a plumber with no asshole to fix my toilet, you get me? If he doesn't have a lawn I'm not hiring him to mow mine. You're being UNCOOL based on current information. Some kind of zero tolerance schoolboard-esque limp-dicked powertrip. Get out of here with that spaghetti squash. Don't lean on joe to make up for you feeling sad that people play their way, in a vibe that's been wacky SS13 since before you were inside a diaper. You got your own special server to enforce your made-up nonsense on.

[Archie700]

The question is why Thomas got banned over something the other party started to begin with, and also, to all knowledge, resulted in his round removal straight up.

He throws the body at me. He wins the fight, and then proceeds to decapitate me and pocket my brain, effectively round removing me, despite the fact that he was the one who started the conflict.

[toemas]

YBS is a good guy, and to repeat what tearling said wait for everything to come out.

Wait for WHAT to come out? the dude has replied to my post twice now, you'd think if there was any relevant information being excluded, then it would be mentioned by now? i dont have some sort of evil secret that im hiding from you, unless theres a gas leak in my house and i cant remember it

[Boot]

Listen guys can you all calm down you can't expect every trialmin to get it right 100% of the time calm down and enjoy that we're seeing YBS be coming the admin that he was always meant to be through this learning experience that at the end of the day really didn't hurt anyone

[wesoda25]

True but it feels arrogant to say that because I can see where he's coming from in this.

[Tearling]

Listen guys can you all calm down you can't expect every trialmin to get it right 100% of the time calm down and enjoy that we're seeing YBS be coming the admin that he was always meant to be through this learning experience that at the end of the day really didn't hurt anyone

This joke is starting to grow on me. It gave me a grin this time.

[Annihilite111]

I'll grant that the ban seems baffling at face value. Ahelping overescalation isn't banworthy, and leaking another players ban is REALLY bad of YBS.

[sinfulbliss]

4) Accusing both (?) players of banbaiting. Thomas was hit in the head with a fireaxe FNR, ahelped, didn't get a response, and then chose to resolve it IC by going after them.

Which turned out to be the wrong assumption, an assumption which I very clearly stated "There could always be something we don't hear about until the headmins step in." to in response. Come on guys.

This doesn't justify the ban and you're being astronomically lame latching onto it as justification for not taking sides. You don't wanna take sides cause it's safer to wait for the headmins to rule on it and then just align yourself with whatever that is.

Anywho It's sort of amazing how after several paragraphs from the banning admin there is still no justification for how Thomas had "poor escalation." They ditched the metagrudge argument and just sorta left it at that.
Massive headache, if I were Thomas this would be pretty irritating. Imagine getting hit by a fireaxe FNR, trying to retaliate, getting round-removed, then getting banned for 3 days for metagrudging poor escalation.

[wesoda25]

Alls well that ends well, cool of YBS

[massa]

This note is still bullshit?

One player with a genuinely horrendous reputation for banbaiting and being a little griefbot axes another player randomly. All bets are off, nothing that victim does can be faulted at this point.

This isn't manuel. Tearling has some insane starscream vibes/takes in this whole thread.