Nicholas Nick gets in trouble with the FBI

[Archie700]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31690

[Boot]

I don't like how he would do the same thing every round as a QM just to try to get a reason to death battle with sec.

[datorangebottle]

I don't like how he would do the same thing every round as a QM just to try to get a reason to death battle with sec.

yeah it kinda bothered me how he'd always gear up like combat was the only purpose of the game.

[Pandarsenic]

I'm really not feeling a sense of loss at his newfound banishment

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I remember back when he used to play on Manuel, I arrested him for raiding the Vault as QM and draining the budget for his own wallet. He resisted and fled, and when I chased him into maints, he threw a bunch of Butcher's Cleavers at me that he'd used Embedding Tape on.

This was on my seccie with Blood Deficiency. It probably would've killed me, if it hadn't also coincidentally been the round the CMO decided to use me to test a new "Resanguination Pill" mix on, and I still had a bottle of 'em.

Edit: (non-antag btw)

[sinfulbliss]

Honestly I dislike the idea of banning someone from the server because of a discord post. Unless they are being blacklisted the two should be mutually exclusive.

Banning someone for note history or because the admins are sick of them seems odd. There should need to be an IC violation off of which to perma them for note history.

[Rohen_Tahir]

Honestly I dislike the idea of banning someone from the server because of a discord post. Unless they are being blacklisted the two should be mutually exclusive.

Why?

[Turbonerd]

Honestly I dislike the idea of banning someone from the server because of a discord post. Unless they are being blacklisted the two should be mutually exclusive.

Banning someone for note history or because the admins are sick of them seems odd. There should need to be an IC violation off of which to perma them for note history.

We're not really missing out on anything good with him gone, even if he didn't break any server rules.

[cacogen]

the montages in the tacky network tv drama making meth set to classics like the real slim shady famously taught everyone how to make methamphetamine so this guy is clearly a .gifv (digg) version of the anarchist's cookbook

in great sincerity though he did a bigotry by insinuating that Blacked ppl are not responsible fathers and posted cool guides that supposedly got other discord servers banned (shame it didn't happen to ours) so this is pretty cut and dry and just a spectacle because he taught us bombmaking like the fighter's club did

[Archie700]

Honestly I dislike the idea of banning someone from the server because of a discord post. Unless they are being blacklisted the two should be mutually exclusive.

Banning someone for note history or because the admins are sick of them seems odd. There should need to be an IC violation off of which to perma them for note history.

If what was revealed on discord was really bad, like say, HOW TO MAKE MUSTARD GAS, you're going to be investigated if you can't follow discord rules that could get everyone in trouble.

It's like the case of the TGMC admin who got blacklisted after it was revealed they ERP'd with an underage and didn't do their due diligence to actually check...based on evidence they gave to TGMC themselves.

[Boot]

If what was revealed on discord was really bad, like say, HOW TO MAKE MUSTARD GAS, you're going to be investigated if you can't follow discord rules that could get everyone in trouble.

It's like the case of the TGMC admin who got blacklisted after it was revealed they ERP'd with an underage and didn't do their due diligence to actually check...based on evidence they gave to TGMC themselves.

so when are all the people telling people to kill themselves gonna catch a perma.

[Jonathan Gupta]

Honestly I dislike the idea of banning someone from the server because of a discord post. Unless they are being blacklisted the two should be mutually exclusive.

Banning someone for note history or because the admins are sick of them seems odd. There should need to be an IC violation off of which to perma them for note history.

If what was revealed on discord was really bad, like say, HOW TO MAKE MUSTARD GAS, you're going to be investigated if you can't follow discord rules that could get everyone in trouble.

It's like the case of the TGMC admin who got blacklisted after it was revealed they ERP'd with an underage and didn't do their due diligence to actually check...based on evidence they gave to TGMC themselves.

people accidently make mustard gas from cleaning supplies, you can make it with piss and bleach(I did it accidentally after I cleaned my toliet)

[Jonathan Gupta]

mustard gas is literally two accessible home cleaning supplies compared to meth where you have to go out of your way to make it.

[cacogen]

people accidently make mustard gas from cleaning supplies, you can make it with piss and bleach(I did it accidentally after I cleaned my toliet)

what a way to go

[Archie700]

mustard gas is literally two accessible home cleaning supplies compared to meth where you have to go out of your way to make it.

actually that makes chloramine, another poisonous gas.
https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/ ... h-cleaners
mustard gas is worse

[sinfulbliss]

If what was revealed on discord was really bad, like say, HOW TO MAKE MUSTARD GAS, you're going to be investigated if you can't follow discord rules that could get everyone in trouble.

It's like the case of the TGMC admin who got blacklisted after it was revealed they ERP'd with an underage and didn't do their due diligence to actually check...based on evidence they gave to TGMC themselves.

I'm not contesting their Discord ban. MSO is looking out for the best interests of the Discord and their rationale for perma'ing him was sound.

I also agree there are certain things you can do OOC that result in server bans. Doxing and what the TGMC admin did are good examples. But these are exceptions because it's blacklisting. Nick wasn't blacklisted, and Mothblocks stated in the appeal that they only levied the perma serverban after reviewing their notes and talking to admins about their IC behavior. Their Discord violation on its own wouldn't have been enough for a perma serverban, but combined with their IC history, it was. This is the thing that seems a bit odd to me. If he's deserving of a perma serverban it should be based solely on his IC behavior (unless this is deemed a blacklist-worthy offense).

Server violations don't result in Discord bans because they're not related. Someone's poor conduct on the server doesn't at all translate into poor conduct on Discord - there are multiple people on the Discord who are permabanned from the server, and they behave themselves just fine (hell, I was one of them at a point). I feel the inverse should be true too. Poor conduct on the Discord doesn't necessarily translate into poor conduct on the server, so a Discord violation shouldn't be used as the impetus to permaban someone from the server.

There are other servers which will permaban people before they even set foot on their server, simply for their behavior in Discord - even unrelated Discords. I liked that TG never did this except in the most extreme cases in which the person would be blacklisted.

[Jonathan Gupta]

mustard gas is literally two accessible home cleaning supplies compared to meth where you have to go out of your way to make it.

actually that makes chloramine, another poisonous gas.
https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/ ... h-cleaners
mustard gas is worse

fuck, I should never do chemistry again with how much I failed.

[Rohen_Tahir]

Server violations don't result in Discord bans because they're not related. Someone's poor conduct on the server doesn't at all translate into poor conduct on Discord - there are multiple people on the Discord who are permabanned from the server, and they behave themselves just fine (hell, I was one of them at a point). I feel the inverse should be true too. Poor conduct on the Discord doesn't necessarily translate into poor conduct on the server, so a Discord violation shouldn't be used as the impetus to permaban someone from the server.

But this guy did not behave fine on either and his poor conduct on the Discord did translate into poor conduct on the server. Banning him from both is beneficial to the community as a whole.

[sinfulbliss]

But this guy did not behave fine on either and his poor conduct on the Discord did translate into poor conduct on the server.

You sorta overlooked my whole point. If he hadn't posted those videos on the Discord, he would not be banned from Sybil right now.

His lapse in judgment on the Discord didn't "translate" into poor conduct on the server. He got notes long before he posted those videos, and his IC behavior was entirely separate from that. For all we know he could have learned from the notes he's gotten on TG and been on an upward trajectory IC.

Banning him from both is beneficial to the community as a whole.

Bans aren't based on whether someone is judged to be "beneficial to the community as a whole" or not. That's an insanely subjective measure and if it's used will only encourage admin overreach and the sort of bans YBS gave where a player is "evaluated" independent of any rulebreaks. If TG is in the business of that then we might as well create a whitelist and application like Skyrat. I've played with Nick a whole lot on Sybil and have only had good experiences with them. The point is whether someone gets banned or not isn't based on a few people's "valuation" of a player, it's based on concrete rulebreaks, and Discord rulebreaks really shouldn't be included in that.

[Rohen_Tahir]

But this guy did not behave fine on either and his poor conduct on the Discord did translate into poor conduct on the server.

You sorta overlooked my whole point. If he hadn't posted those videos on the Discord, he would not be banned from Sybil right now.

His lapse in judgment on the Discord didn't "translate" into poor conduct on the server. He got notes long before he posted those videos, and his IC behavior was entirely separate from that. For all we know he could have learned from the notes he's gotten on TG and been on an upward trajectory IC.

Yeah he probably was on an upward trajectory. I think it is likely that he was getting a little closer to not breaking rule 9 every round.

Banning him from both is beneficial to the community as a whole.

Bans aren't based on whether someone is judged to be "beneficial to the community as a whole" or not. That's an insanely subjective measure and if it's used will only encourage admin overreach and the sort of bans YBS gave where a player is "evaluated" independent of any rulebreaks. If TG is in the business of that then we might as well create a whitelist and application like Skyrat. I've played with Nick a whole lot on Sybil and have only had good experiences with them. The point is whether someone gets banned or not isn't based on a few people's "valuation" of a player, it's based on concrete rulebreaks, and Discord rulebreaks really shouldn't be included in that.

It's not? Really? Because last time I checked, Rule 0 and Rule 1 were in the rules and the Constitution wasn't.

[sinfulbliss]

It's not? Really? Because last time I checked, Rule 0 and Rule 1 were in the rules and the Constitution wasn't.

You can’t “break” rule 0 you bonehead.

[Rohen_Tahir]

It's not? Really? Because last time I checked, Rule 0 and Rule 1 were in the rules and the Constitution wasn't.

You can’t “break” rule 0 you bonehead.

And?

[massa]

But this guy did not behave fine on either and his poor conduct on the Discord did translate into poor conduct on the server.

You sorta overlooked my whole point. If he hadn't posted those videos on the Discord, he would not be banned from Sybil right now.

His lapse in judgment on the Discord didn't "translate" into poor conduct on the server. He got notes long before he posted those videos, and his IC behavior was entirely separate from that. For all we know he could have learned from the notes he's gotten on TG and been on an upward trajectory IC.

Banning him from both is beneficial to the community as a whole.

Bans aren't based on whether someone is judged to be "beneficial to the community as a whole" or not. That's an insanely subjective measure and if it's used will only encourage admin overreach and the sort of bans YBS gave where a player is "evaluated" independent of any rulebreaks. If TG is in the business of that then we might as well create a whitelist and application like Skyrat. I've played with Nick a whole lot on Sybil and have only had good experiences with them. The point is whether someone gets banned or not isn't based on a few people's "valuation" of a player, it's based on concrete rulebreaks, and Discord rulebreaks really shouldn't be included in that.

Sometimes there's a limit with egregious behavior and this individual clearly hit it. This was a blacklisting, definitively.

[Archie700]

I've played with Nick a whole lot on Sybil and have only had good experiences with them.

good experiences?

[cSeal]

every time nicholas "round removed an atmos tech for dragging an air pump" nick got banned for the most obvious rule breaking shit he'd whine in the discord and ask if he should appeal, consistently, and then go and do some other miserable thing all over again. this individual has no conception of what is and isn't cool to do on the servers and if he's unbanned he'll continue to shit it up
also sinful defending an unrepentant shitter who was nothing but a negative influence once again. many such cases!!

[Boot]

Listen fucker one day you'll be on the wrong of a trialmin and you'll be thanking that you have sinful in the trenches defending your honor.

While yes nick does the same bullshit on repeat. Sell all crates under his name to get the money for a baton crate, break into the sec checkpoint for a recharger and depending on the map a sec winter coat because it can hold holsters, by now mining has done their first load which he will sell under his name just to get the money for a set of thermals which he will take both of because once again the sec winter coats can hold the holsters and then go find someone to death battle against. I swear to god I wish I was recording all those rounds as a cargo tech because it was like clockwork.

Now it seems really funny to me personally that this kinda shittery apparently wasn't enough. That it was posting a spicy meme on a third party chat app separate from the game that got him banned. I think that while yes Nick is a shitter that Sinful, like always, has a good argument here. If I were to go onto discord to lay down the law and catch a perma ought I be banned on the game server aswell? My last real note was like 5 years ago, ought that matter? If this was Pax and not Nick would the situation be any different? Both are shitters in their own regard with terrible note histories. I think that Sinful is brining up an interesting question that prolly should be in policy discussion and I don't like how everyone is just ignoring it.

[FleaMcP]

also sinful defending an unrepentant shitter who was nothing but a negative influence once again. many such cases!!

I don’t like the precedent of my incredibly toxic and shitty behavior both in-game and outside of it being taken into consideration when I get blacklisted from Discord for posting how-to’s on creating lethal gas disguised as innocent videos. What is this place coming to?

This is the future the MRP Mothblocks-headed “““Administration””” wants for /tg/.

[cSeal]

Listen fucker one day you'll be on the wrong of a trialmin and you'll be thanking that you have sinful in the trenches defending your honor.

I would pay sinful real life actual genuine money to not take my side on a ban appeal

[tjatpbnj]

Listen fucker one day you'll be on the wrong of a trialmin and you'll be thanking that you have sinful in the trenches defending your honor.

I would pay sinful real life actual genuine money to not take my side on a ban appeal

You value that too much i think

[wubli]

Listen fucker one day you'll be on the wrong of a trialmin and you'll be thanking that you have sinful in the trenches defending your honor.

[Archie700]

Listen fucker one day you'll be on the wrong of a trialmin and you'll be thanking that you have sinful in the trenches defending your honor.

Thank you Portuguese Rika

NSFW:

the new seasons were a mistake

[sinfulbliss]

As I was looking into the case, a large amount of admins (more than are expected from the usual admin chatter peanut gallery) expressed distate and frustration in you, which is perfectly backed up by your previously mentioned history.

Nothing here is perma-worthy on its own, but displayed a crimson red enough flag that you do not improve the community you are a part of, with the severity of the Discord punishment being your nail in the coffin.

Let me create a hypothetical. Say you have a kind of shitty player that has a huge note history but hasn't done anything perma-worthy. By the same logic, could admins not come to a conclusion among themselves that they do not improve the community, are a net negative, and therefore should be banned? Why not rid the server of all the players that admins agree do not improve the community, why wait for any violation if one can make the server better by just banning shitters?

This method worries me for a few reasons. 1) The player is unable to defend themselves from the private admin chatter that expresses distate for them and their playstyle, 2) The player is not able to take these criticisms and improve from them like they would if they were noted for them, and 3) Discord comments are almost certainly not based on logs and facts but on anecdotal experiences and emotional opinions.

Admins in my eyes are trusted players that protect rounds from rulebreakers and note players for behavior that they want to see changed. Notes should be treated as helpful critiques on a player's playstyle and will influence them to play differently, and discourage them from playing in the way that got them noted. Banning someone simply for a note history, with no other direct IC violation, throws out the entire purpose of notes.

Mothblocks is a headadmin and can be trusted to make these sorts of bans even if there is no precedent or it's usually not done, since headmins' entire role is to make precedent. The precedent is the only thing I'm expressing the concerns about. I can understand the ban in isolation.

[Pandarsenic]

I would simply not post Discord-ToS-breaking content in Discord

[datorangebottle]

Mothblocks is a headadmin and can be trusted to make these sorts of bans even if there is no precedent or it's usually not done, since headmins' entire role is to make precedent. The precedent is the only thing I'm expressing the concerns about. I can understand the ban in isolation.

Sinful, he posted stuff on the discord that could've gotten the entire server and every user's account deleted. If that's not a trigger to yeet someone from the community entirely, I don't know what is. If I posted something like that I'd expect a discord perma at best. Mothblocks is being generous by giving him a chance to come back if he's really serious, instead of just blacklisting him outright.

People have been blacklisted/ingame banned for things that happened outside of the game before. This isn't setting a precedent; the precedent already exists.

[Vekter]

seeing as it was just innocent shitposting

I'm not really sure how anyone could see "posting literally illegal content" and think anything about that is innocent. This alone is a good enough reason not to let him back.

Mothblocks is a headadmin and can be trusted to make these sorts of bans even if there is no precedent or it's usually not done, since headmins' entire role is to make precedent. The precedent is the only thing I'm expressing the concerns about. I can understand the ban in isolation.

Not to dogpile, but bottle is correct - people have been banned from both the Discord and Server for out-of-game behavior. At least two instances I can remember were due to doxxing, someone was shitlisted for posting drama content on >digg, and I'm pretty sure we've had to ban people for rule 8 stuff before due to them being massively creepy in Discord.

[Rohen_Tahir]

Listen fucker one day you'll be on the wrong of a trialmin and you'll be thanking that you have sinful in the trenches defending your honor.

As a wise man once said: "I know I don't have to let this guy suck my dick to get some legal representation"

[sinfulbliss]

Not to dogpile, but bottle is correct - people have been banned from both the Discord and Server for out-of-game behavior. At least two instances I can remember were due to doxxing, someone was shitlisted for posting drama content on >digg, and I'm pretty sure we've had to ban people for rule 8 stuff before due to them being massively creepy in Discord.

I also agree there are certain things you can do OOC that result in server bans. Doxing and what the TGMC admin did are good examples. But these are exceptions because it's blacklisting.

Blacklisting is a separate animal. It is done when the offense is so bad that it doesn’t matter that it wasn’t on the server, the offense itself means the person is never going to be welcome in TG again. Doxing is one of those offenses. Posting bad videos on Discord isn’t.

To reiterate, people have been blacklisted for OOC behavior, usually of a caliber significantly worse than Nick’s and with much worse intentions. Banning for OOC actions is new to me.

[Pandarsenic]

"Bad videos" that risk getting Discord's TOS axe dropped on the server and every member is in fact quite possibly That Bad.

[wubli]

By the same logic, could admins not come to a conclusion among themselves that they do not improve the community, are a net negative, and therefore should be banned? Why not rid the server of all the players that admins agree do not improve the community, why wait for any violation if one can make the server better by just banning shitters?

this doesn't make sense, the entire point of being a shitter is that you actively commit violations

[wubli]

if with your post you meant "what if admins could just ban whoever they don't like" i'm all in. if i see you wearing an outfit i don't like, say goodbye, loser

[Archie700]

To quote MSO.

You posted 6 videos in the last month or so that had to be deleted. 4 of which contained content that have gotten entire discord servers banned before for not deleting. Glorifying drugs, encouraging illegal activity, or harmful/violent instructional content are all against discord's community guidelines, which we have to enforce or our entire server gets banned, and if they're in a mood, they will also ban all users in our discord from all of discord. This has happened before to other gaming servers.

1. Posting illegal and possibly dangerous content that can lead to the whole server being nuked shows that you don't really care for rules to begin with
2. He did it four times.

He endangered the entire community for laughs. That alone is enough of a reason to start looking into his record and deciding whether you want to take a risk of keeping him inside the community.

[sinfulbliss]

Posting illegal and possibly dangerous content that can lead to the whole server being nuked shows that you don't really care for rules to begin with

Do you think he posted them with the intention of putting the server in jeopardy? Or do you think he was just trying to be funny? I think it’s pretty obvious which it was.

this doesn't make sense, the entire point of being a shitter is that you actively commit violations

I mean after someone earns the status of shitter, from past violations. Can they now be evaluated privately and banned for their very colorful note history alone? Why not?

[wubli]

I mean after someone earns the status of shitter, from past violations. Can they now be evaluated privately and banned for their very colorful note history alone? Why not?

yes? this is how rule 0 bans happen. it usually comes after a recent offense, but it's a combination of looking at someone's notes and general behaviour
these people are always talked to several times before bans like these happen, i mean, that's why they have notes, right?

[wubli]

2) The player is not able to take these criticisms and improve from them like they would if they were noted for them,

my brother in christ, shitters get notes all the time and do not take these criticism and improve
the kind of notes they get are only given without talking to the person if they're offline. and even then, they'll be sent a message about it
if you manage to get a bunch of different, unrelated admins talking about your behaviour poorly enough to consider you a shitter that needs to be banned, with a team of 100+ people, you'd think there's something to it
you're absolutely disconnected from the reality of bans/notes if you think people get banned like this often and at this point you're just being a contrarian for the sake of it
genuinely find something better to do with your timer rather than playing devil's advocate for nerds

[sinfulbliss]

I mean after someone earns the status of shitter, from past violations. Can they now be evaluated privately and banned for their very colorful note history alone? Why not?

these people are always talked to several times before bans like these happen, i mean, that's why they have notes, right?

Yes, they have notes so they can improve the behavior. If they don't improve, then they are eventually banned or permabanned for it. There is nothing wrong with this and that's how it should be. If you ban someone simply for "having notes" then it voids the purpose of their notes - i.e., to improve. If they're not improving then it stands to reason they are committing violations for which you can ban them. Where in all this does it become necessary to ban over histories alone?

you're absolutely disconnected from the reality of bans/notes if you think people get banned like this often and at this point you're just being a contrarian for the sake of it

I never said I thought people got banned for this often. I don't think people should get banned solely for "histories" period. If they're really bad enough to where they won't improve then it should be simple enough to ban them for the next offense, or instead of a note banning them for the behavior. I'm sorry for having a contrary view, I know it's more comfy for everyone to agree with everything, but believe it or not I'm just expressing my opinion.

If Nick truly was a net negative for the community IC, then it should be simple enough to ban them for an inevitable IC offense, not banning them for a Discord violation. I think there is a good chance they wouldn't have done anything bad enough to get permabanned in-game if they were allowed to play again, but there's no way to know now.

[wubli]

If they're really bad enough to where they won't improve then it should be simple enough to ban them for the next offense, or instead of a note banning them for the behavior.

yeah and then you'd have losers saying "permabanning for X?" and ignoring their history
i think you need to become an admin in a server and it'd take you like less than 2 weeks to realize why things are like they are

I'm sorry for having a contrary view, I know it's more comfy for everyone to agree with everything, but believe it or not I'm just expressing my opinion.

ah, yes, tg forum posters, known for agreeing with everything and not ever complaining about any bans. you and you alone, sinfulbliss, are the only person that has ever disagreed with a ban

[sinfulbliss]

yeah and then you'd have losers saying "permabanning for X?" and ignoring their history

This is a worthwhile tradeoff and I will stand with you to call them losers then.

you and you alone, sinfulbliss, are the only person that has ever disagreed with a ban

It boggles the mind, it honestly does. Every time I post I am taken aback and shocked by the sheer lack of similar takes, it would be so much easier if everyone was just right and I didn't have to constantly forumpost. But alas, here we are *flips fedora

[cSeal]

If Nick truly was a net negative for the community IC, then it should be simple enough to ban them for an inevitable IC offense, not banning them for a Discord violation.

why does it matter so much to you that these are kept in a vacuum? the discord is an aspect of our community same as ooc is, if someones shitting it up they should be held accountable. if someone is shit in all regards both in ooc spaces and in following rules in game during a round, why shouldnt an admin take it into consideration? nick was a dog shit player who broke the rules every other round he was in and loudly talked about how it was unfair he got banned for whatever self antag shit he pulled that day. we would gain nothing by letting him shit up the servers for another 2 month period before admins feel justified in banning him because half his fucking notes went stale during his break period, and if this precedent is ever used again I guarantee itll be just as justified

[wubli]

This is a worthwhile tradeoff and I will stand with you to call them losers then.

not a treadeoff because your posts haven't helped any of the people you've defended!!! (coincidencially because you've defended terrible people)

[sinfulbliss]

If Nick truly was a net negative for the community IC, then it should be simple enough to ban them for an inevitable IC offense, not banning them for a Discord violation.

why does it matter so much to you that these are kept in a vacuum?

Because I like the idea that it doesn't matter who you are, what you say, what you do, at the end of the day all that matters is if you can get along with people in this fake little atmos simulator.

Spoiler:

Inb4 "but Nick didn't get along with people he was a dogshit player" ok then should be easy enough to wait for an in-game violation and perma for that. Inb4 "but people get banned for OOC behavior" only borderline criminal shit like doxing and whatnot. Inb4 "why should we allow a shitter with 1000 notes to play" because the point of the notes is to improve their play and if they are banned without even playing then there is no purpose in noting them in the first place