Nicholas Nick gets in trouble with the FBI
Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 2:43 pm
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Why?sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 7:59 pm Honestly I dislike the idea of banning someone from the server because of a discord post. Unless they are being blacklisted the two should be mutually exclusive.
We're not really missing out on anything good with him gone, even if he didn't break any server rules.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 7:59 pm Honestly I dislike the idea of banning someone from the server because of a discord post. Unless they are being blacklisted the two should be mutually exclusive.
Banning someone for note history or because the admins are sick of them seems odd. There should need to be an IC violation off of which to perma them for note history.
If what was revealed on discord was really bad, like say, HOW TO MAKE MUSTARD GAS, you're going to be investigated if you can't follow discord rules that could get everyone in trouble.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 7:59 pm Honestly I dislike the idea of banning someone from the server because of a discord post. Unless they are being blacklisted the two should be mutually exclusive.
Banning someone for note history or because the admins are sick of them seems odd. There should need to be an IC violation off of which to perma them for note history.
so when are all the people telling people to kill themselves gonna catch a perma.Archie700 wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 3:47 am If what was revealed on discord was really bad, like say, HOW TO MAKE MUSTARD GAS, you're going to be investigated if you can't follow discord rules that could get everyone in trouble.
It's like the case of the TGMC admin who got blacklisted after it was revealed they ERP'd with an underage and didn't do their due diligence to actually check...based on evidence they gave to TGMC themselves.
people accidently make mustard gas from cleaning supplies, you can make it with piss and bleach(I did it accidentally after I cleaned my toliet)Archie700 wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 3:47 amIf what was revealed on discord was really bad, like say, HOW TO MAKE MUSTARD GAS, you're going to be investigated if you can't follow discord rules that could get everyone in trouble.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 7:59 pm Honestly I dislike the idea of banning someone from the server because of a discord post. Unless they are being blacklisted the two should be mutually exclusive.
Banning someone for note history or because the admins are sick of them seems odd. There should need to be an IC violation off of which to perma them for note history.
It's like the case of the TGMC admin who got blacklisted after it was revealed they ERP'd with an underage and didn't do their due diligence to actually check...based on evidence they gave to TGMC themselves.
what a way to goJonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:04 am people accidently make mustard gas from cleaning supplies, you can make it with piss and bleach(I did it accidentally after I cleaned my toliet)
actually that makes chloramine, another poisonous gas.Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:05 am mustard gas is literally two accessible home cleaning supplies compared to meth where you have to go out of your way to make it.
I'm not contesting their Discord ban. MSO is looking out for the best interests of the Discord and their rationale for perma'ing him was sound.Archie700 wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 3:47 am If what was revealed on discord was really bad, like say, HOW TO MAKE MUSTARD GAS, you're going to be investigated if you can't follow discord rules that could get everyone in trouble.
It's like the case of the TGMC admin who got blacklisted after it was revealed they ERP'd with an underage and didn't do their due diligence to actually check...based on evidence they gave to TGMC themselves.
fuck, I should never do chemistry again with how much I failed.Archie700 wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:34 amactually that makes chloramine, another poisonous gas.Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:05 am mustard gas is literally two accessible home cleaning supplies compared to meth where you have to go out of your way to make it.
https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/ ... h-cleaners
mustard gas is worse
But this guy did not behave fine on either and his poor conduct on the Discord did translate into poor conduct on the server. Banning him from both is beneficial to the community as a whole.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:37 am Server violations don't result in Discord bans because they're not related. Someone's poor conduct on the server doesn't at all translate into poor conduct on Discord - there are multiple people on the Discord who are permabanned from the server, and they behave themselves just fine (hell, I was one of them at a point). I feel the inverse should be true too. Poor conduct on the Discord doesn't necessarily translate into poor conduct on the server, so a Discord violation shouldn't be used as the impetus to permaban someone from the server.
You sorta overlooked my whole point. If he hadn't posted those videos on the Discord, he would not be banned from Sybil right now.Rohen_Tahir wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 11:41 am But this guy did not behave fine on either and his poor conduct on the Discord did translate into poor conduct on the server.
Bans aren't based on whether someone is judged to be "beneficial to the community as a whole" or not. That's an insanely subjective measure and if it's used will only encourage admin overreach and the sort of bans YBS gave where a player is "evaluated" independent of any rulebreaks. If TG is in the business of that then we might as well create a whitelist and application like Skyrat. I've played with Nick a whole lot on Sybil and have only had good experiences with them. The point is whether someone gets banned or not isn't based on a few people's "valuation" of a player, it's based on concrete rulebreaks, and Discord rulebreaks really shouldn't be included in that.Rohen_Tahir wrote:Banning him from both is beneficial to the community as a whole.
Yeah he probably was on an upward trajectory. I think it is likely that he was getting a little closer to not breaking rule 9 every round.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 12:09 pmYou sorta overlooked my whole point. If he hadn't posted those videos on the Discord, he would not be banned from Sybil right now.Rohen_Tahir wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 11:41 am But this guy did not behave fine on either and his poor conduct on the Discord did translate into poor conduct on the server.
His lapse in judgment on the Discord didn't "translate" into poor conduct on the server. He got notes long before he posted those videos, and his IC behavior was entirely separate from that. For all we know he could have learned from the notes he's gotten on TG and been on an upward trajectory IC.
It's not? Really? Because last time I checked, Rule 0 and Rule 1 were in the rules and the Constitution wasn't.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 12:09 pmBans aren't based on whether someone is judged to be "beneficial to the community as a whole" or not. That's an insanely subjective measure and if it's used will only encourage admin overreach and the sort of bans YBS gave where a player is "evaluated" independent of any rulebreaks. If TG is in the business of that then we might as well create a whitelist and application like Skyrat. I've played with Nick a whole lot on Sybil and have only had good experiences with them. The point is whether someone gets banned or not isn't based on a few people's "valuation" of a player, it's based on concrete rulebreaks, and Discord rulebreaks really shouldn't be included in that.Rohen_Tahir wrote:Banning him from both is beneficial to the community as a whole.
You can’t “break” rule 0 you bonehead.Rohen_Tahir wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 12:31 pm It's not? Really? Because last time I checked, Rule 0 and Rule 1 were in the rules and the Constitution wasn't.
And?sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 1:13 pmYou can’t “break” rule 0 you bonehead.Rohen_Tahir wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 12:31 pm It's not? Really? Because last time I checked, Rule 0 and Rule 1 were in the rules and the Constitution wasn't.
Sometimes there's a limit with egregious behavior and this individual clearly hit it. This was a blacklisting, definitively.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 12:09 pmYou sorta overlooked my whole point. If he hadn't posted those videos on the Discord, he would not be banned from Sybil right now.Rohen_Tahir wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 11:41 am But this guy did not behave fine on either and his poor conduct on the Discord did translate into poor conduct on the server.
His lapse in judgment on the Discord didn't "translate" into poor conduct on the server. He got notes long before he posted those videos, and his IC behavior was entirely separate from that. For all we know he could have learned from the notes he's gotten on TG and been on an upward trajectory IC.
Bans aren't based on whether someone is judged to be "beneficial to the community as a whole" or not. That's an insanely subjective measure and if it's used will only encourage admin overreach and the sort of bans YBS gave where a player is "evaluated" independent of any rulebreaks. If TG is in the business of that then we might as well create a whitelist and application like Skyrat. I've played with Nick a whole lot on Sybil and have only had good experiences with them. The point is whether someone gets banned or not isn't based on a few people's "valuation" of a player, it's based on concrete rulebreaks, and Discord rulebreaks really shouldn't be included in that.Rohen_Tahir wrote:Banning him from both is beneficial to the community as a whole.
good experiences?sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 12:09 pm I've played with Nick a whole lot on Sybil and have only had good experiences with them.
I don’t like the precedent of my incredibly toxic and shitty behavior both in-game and outside of it being taken into consideration when I get blacklisted from Discord for posting how-to’s on creating lethal gas disguised as innocent videos. What is this place coming to?
Mothblocks wrote:As I was looking into the case, a large amount of admins (more than are expected from the usual admin chatter peanut gallery) expressed distate and frustration in you, which is perfectly backed up by your previously mentioned history.
Let me create a hypothetical. Say you have a kind of shitty player that has a huge note history but hasn't done anything perma-worthy. By the same logic, could admins not come to a conclusion among themselves that they do not improve the community, are a net negative, and therefore should be banned? Why not rid the server of all the players that admins agree do not improve the community, why wait for any violation if one can make the server better by just banning shitters?Mothblocks wrote:Nothing here is perma-worthy on its own, but displayed a crimson red enough flag that you do not improve the community you are a part of, with the severity of the Discord punishment being your nail in the coffin.
Sinful, he posted stuff on the discord that could've gotten the entire server and every user's account deleted. If that's not a trigger to yeet someone from the community entirely, I don't know what is. If I posted something like that I'd expect a discord perma at best. Mothblocks is being generous by giving him a chance to come back if he's really serious, instead of just blacklisting him outright.sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:44 am Mothblocks is a headadmin and can be trusted to make these sorts of bans even if there is no precedent or it's usually not done, since headmins' entire role is to make precedent. The precedent is the only thing I'm expressing the concerns about. I can understand the ban in isolation.
I'm not really sure how anyone could see "posting literally illegal content" and think anything about that is innocent. This alone is a good enough reason not to let him back.XII391 wrote:seeing as it was just innocent shitposting
Not to dogpile, but bottle is correct - people have been banned from both the Discord and Server for out-of-game behavior. At least two instances I can remember were due to doxxing, someone was shitlisted for posting drama content on >digg, and I'm pretty sure we've had to ban people for rule 8 stuff before due to them being massively creepy in Discord.sinfulbliss wrote: Mothblocks is a headadmin and can be trusted to make these sorts of bans even if there is no precedent or it's usually not done, since headmins' entire role is to make precedent. The precedent is the only thing I'm expressing the concerns about. I can understand the ban in isolation.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 6:32 am Not to dogpile, but bottle is correct - people have been banned from both the Discord and Server for out-of-game behavior. At least two instances I can remember were due to doxxing, someone was shitlisted for posting drama content on >digg, and I'm pretty sure we've had to ban people for rule 8 stuff before due to them being massively creepy in Discord.
Blacklisting is a separate animal. It is done when the offense is so bad that it doesn’t matter that it wasn’t on the server, the offense itself means the person is never going to be welcome in TG again. Doxing is one of those offenses. Posting bad videos on Discord isn’t.SinfulBliss wrote:I also agree there are certain things you can do OOC that result in server bans. Doxing and what the TGMC admin did are good examples. But these are exceptions because it's blacklisting.
this doesn't make sense, the entire point of being a shitter is that you actively commit violationssinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:44 amBy the same logic, could admins not come to a conclusion among themselves that they do not improve the community, are a net negative, and therefore should be banned? Why not rid the server of all the players that admins agree do not improve the community, why wait for any violation if one can make the server better by just banning shitters?
1. Posting illegal and possibly dangerous content that can lead to the whole server being nuked shows that you don't really care for rules to begin withYou posted 6 videos in the last month or so that had to be deleted. 4 of which contained content that have gotten entire discord servers banned before for not deleting. Glorifying drugs, encouraging illegal activity, or harmful/violent instructional content are all against discord's community guidelines, which we have to enforce or our entire server gets banned, and if they're in a mood, they will also ban all users in our discord from all of discord. This has happened before to other gaming servers.
Do you think he posted them with the intention of putting the server in jeopardy? Or do you think he was just trying to be funny? I think it’s pretty obvious which it was.Archie700 wrote:Posting illegal and possibly dangerous content that can lead to the whole server being nuked shows that you don't really care for rules to begin with
I mean after someone earns the status of shitter, from past violations. Can they now be evaluated privately and banned for their very colorful note history alone? Why not?wubli wrote:this doesn't make sense, the entire point of being a shitter is that you actively commit violations
yes? this is how rule 0 bans happen. it usually comes after a recent offense, but it's a combination of looking at someone's notes and general behavioursinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:04 amI mean after someone earns the status of shitter, from past violations. Can they now be evaluated privately and banned for their very colorful note history alone? Why not?
my brother in christ, shitters get notes all the time and do not take these criticism and improvesinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 3:44 am 2) The player is not able to take these criticisms and improve from them like they would if they were noted for them,
Yes, they have notes so they can improve the behavior. If they don't improve, then they are eventually banned or permabanned for it. There is nothing wrong with this and that's how it should be. If you ban someone simply for "having notes" then it voids the purpose of their notes - i.e., to improve. If they're not improving then it stands to reason they are committing violations for which you can ban them. Where in all this does it become necessary to ban over histories alone?wubli wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:31 amthese people are always talked to several times before bans like these happen, i mean, that's why they have notes, right?sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:04 amI mean after someone earns the status of shitter, from past violations. Can they now be evaluated privately and banned for their very colorful note history alone? Why not?
I never said I thought people got banned for this often. I don't think people should get banned solely for "histories" period. If they're really bad enough to where they won't improve then it should be simple enough to ban them for the next offense, or instead of a note banning them for the behavior. I'm sorry for having a contrary view, I know it's more comfy for everyone to agree with everything, but believe it or not I'm just expressing my opinion.wubli wrote:you're absolutely disconnected from the reality of bans/notes if you think people get banned like this often and at this point you're just being a contrarian for the sake of it
yeah and then you'd have losers saying "permabanning for X?" and ignoring their historysinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:38 am If they're really bad enough to where they won't improve then it should be simple enough to ban them for the next offense, or instead of a note banning them for the behavior.
ah, yes, tg forum posters, known for agreeing with everything and not ever complaining about any bans. you and you alone, sinfulbliss, are the only person that has ever disagreed with a bansinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:38 amI'm sorry for having a contrary view, I know it's more comfy for everyone to agree with everything, but believe it or not I'm just expressing my opinion.
This is a worthwhile tradeoff and I will stand with you to call them losers then.
It boggles the mind, it honestly does. Every time I post I am taken aback and shocked by the sheer lack of similar takes, it would be so much easier if everyone was just right and I didn't have to constantly forumpost. But alas, here we are *flips fedora
why does it matter so much to you that these are kept in a vacuum? the discord is an aspect of our community same as ooc is, if someones shitting it up they should be held accountable. if someone is shit in all regards both in ooc spaces and in following rules in game during a round, why shouldnt an admin take it into consideration? nick was a dog shit player who broke the rules every other round he was in and loudly talked about how it was unfair he got banned for whatever self antag shit he pulled that day. we would gain nothing by letting him shit up the servers for another 2 month period before admins feel justified in banning him because half his fucking notes went stale during his break period, and if this precedent is ever used again I guarantee itll be just as justifiedsinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:38 am If Nick truly was a net negative for the community IC, then it should be simple enough to ban them for an inevitable IC offense, not banning them for a Discord violation.
not a treadeoff because your posts haven't helped any of the people you've defended!!! (coincidencially because you've defended terrible people)sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 3:38 am This is a worthwhile tradeoff and I will stand with you to call them losers then.
Because I like the idea that it doesn't matter who you are, what you say, what you do, at the end of the day all that matters is if you can get along with people in this fake little atmos simulator.cSeal wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 4:04 amwhy does it matter so much to you that these are kept in a vacuum?sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 1:38 am If Nick truly was a net negative for the community IC, then it should be simple enough to ban them for an inevitable IC offense, not banning them for a Discord violation.