What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
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- Shadowflame909
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What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
Looking at you miners lesser ash drake potions and you toxins anomaly cores
Best form of gating powerful stuff is time gated content. If an antag fails to assassinate me before the hour mark my job should give me antag grade equipment and make it that much more difficult to turn me horizontal. Ala death nettles, Mecha, and virology death coma
Edit: sec should get energy bazookas but I'm not sure what anomaly would fit that
Best form of gating powerful stuff is time gated content. If an antag fails to assassinate me before the hour mark my job should give me antag grade equipment and make it that much more difficult to turn me horizontal. Ala death nettles, Mecha, and virology death coma
Edit: sec should get energy bazookas but I'm not sure what anomaly would fit that
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- Rohen_Tahir
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
If you need an entire hour to get any of those you need to git gud.
- Notgonnabreaktherule
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
RNG gated content sucks because shitlords can just get lucky and use them to grief everyone
difficulty gated content is good because it needs actual skill and from my experience skilled players are usually also good faith players (i only play on basil)
difficulty gated content is good because it needs actual skill and from my experience skilled players are usually also good faith players (i only play on basil)
- Pandarsenic
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
Difficulty is good as long as it's reasonably possible to figure out without consulting the Wiki/codebase directly (e.g. making libital vs. making chloral hydrate vs. making meth)
It's also good to have content that periodically randomized, but skill-solvable (like Lavaland exploration, not like Telescience or Virology)
The closest thing we have to a system that allows people to learn a set of rules of interaction and then apply that knowledge in novel ways to solve problems is Chemistry for Inverse Chems, but even that reduces to "Learn a recipe and write it down after" with little original research (at least here).
Atmospherics only presents or solves three problems:
- Provide air?
- Ruin the station?
- Make a funny gas (which you can only really use to ruin the station)?
Virology is simply "figure out a formula, then fight RNG until the chemicals randomly give you what you want"
Telescience was not reasonably human-solvable so we ended up with the stupid calculators
etc.
It's also good to have content that periodically randomized, but skill-solvable (like Lavaland exploration, not like Telescience or Virology)
The closest thing we have to a system that allows people to learn a set of rules of interaction and then apply that knowledge in novel ways to solve problems is Chemistry for Inverse Chems, but even that reduces to "Learn a recipe and write it down after" with little original research (at least here).
Atmospherics only presents or solves three problems:
- Provide air?
- Ruin the station?
- Make a funny gas (which you can only really use to ruin the station)?
Virology is simply "figure out a formula, then fight RNG until the chemicals randomly give you what you want"
Telescience was not reasonably human-solvable so we ended up with the stupid calculators
etc.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- Itseasytosee2me
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
I've still not taken the time to memorize the recipes for the basic healing chems ever since cobby chem dropped.Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 9:46 pm (e.g. making libital vs. making chloral hydrate vs. making meth)
Also, telesci as I knew it wasn't to bad, ever take a trig class?
- Sincerely itseasytosee
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
When things are balanced around difficulty in this game, they're always aimed at the top x percent of players instead of the average player to stop them using these things to steamroll everyone else. This makes these things unreasonably difficult for most players, which is particularly egregious if it's something that is expected to be done every shift.
When I think of RNG gated content I think of ancient genetics where you had to irradiate certain blocks to get a hexadecimal number between two values in order for a chance at a power or disability manifesting. Some people got really good at it somehow and could get all the powers within the first fifteen minutes, but for me and the people I was always partnered with it was always a dull slog that took 25 to 40 minutes depending on the kindness of the RNG (lag was also a contributor here, come to think of it).
I think gating with difficulty is probably the worst of the two because at least with RNG you can get lucky and get something early. There's always going to be a skill ceiling for different players for different things so gating with difficulty is always going to favour certain players over others.
When I think of RNG gated content I think of ancient genetics where you had to irradiate certain blocks to get a hexadecimal number between two values in order for a chance at a power or disability manifesting. Some people got really good at it somehow and could get all the powers within the first fifteen minutes, but for me and the people I was always partnered with it was always a dull slog that took 25 to 40 minutes depending on the kindness of the RNG (lag was also a contributor here, come to think of it).
I think gating with difficulty is probably the worst of the two because at least with RNG you can get lucky and get something early. There's always going to be a skill ceiling for different players for different things so gating with difficulty is always going to favour certain players over others.
- Pandarsenic
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
Some of this is a poor understanding of skill floors vs. skill ceilings in our codecacogen wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 10:21 am When things are balanced around difficulty in this game, they're always aimed at the top x percent of players instead of the average player to stop them using these things to steamroll everyone else. This makes these things unreasonably difficult for most players, which is particularly egregious if it's something that is expected to be done every shift.
Part of this is having a bunch of genuine apes who can't meet extremely low skill floors, like completing a human dissection. Are they lazy? Inept? Not guided? I don't know.
How do medics get told they need to complete a human dissection on the pregame morgue corpses other than experience?
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- san7890
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
Being told by someone with experience. It's a sandbox roleplaying game after all. It's unfortunate if there's no-one around to teach them... but I'd like to keep a sliver of sunshine in my heart and hope that at least someone can enjoy teaching other people out of the goodness of their heart to foster and nurture someone new to the job. I did a lot of basic training in atmospherics as a Chief Engineer, where I would spend entire rounds showing them the "floor" as far as basics. I enjoyed doing it because they were always pleasant people and were willing to learn. I hope other people haven't forgotten this fact, and I hope that players still know to teach and be taught.Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 6:46 pm
-snip-
How do medics get told they need to complete a human dissection on the pregame morgue corpses other than experience?
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- Timonk
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
Time Gated content is shit because you get stressed tf out in a casual environment that shouldn't be about minmaxing your shit so hard that you can still do your objectives
joooks wrote:Quoting a legend, at least im not a faggot lolNaloac wrote:
In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.
See you in 12 months unless you blacklist me for this
Timberpoes wrote: ↑ I'm going to admin timonk [...]. Fuck it, he's also now my second host vote if goof rejects.
pikeyeskey13 wrote: ↑ ok don't forget to shove it up your ass lmao oops u can delete this one I just wanted to make sure it went through
Agux909 wrote:Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel
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- Pandarsenic
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
I'll even teach doctors myself as an AI, as I desperately try to get someone to finish it so I can have a Shell on late night servers, but sometimes it's just agonizingly hard people to listen to you.san7890 wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 6:51 pmBeing told by someone with experience. It's a sandbox roleplaying game after all. It's unfortunate if there's no-one around to teach them... but I'd like to keep a sliver of sunshine in my heart and hope that at least someone can enjoy teaching other people out of the goodness of their heart to foster and nurture someone new to the job. I did a lot of basic training in atmospherics as a Chief Engineer, where I would spend entire rounds showing them the "floor" as far as basics. I enjoyed doing it because they were always pleasant people and were willing to learn. I hope other people haven't forgotten this fact, and I hope that players still know to teach and be taught.Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 6:46 pm
-snip-
How do medics get told they need to complete a human dissection on the pregame morgue corpses other than experience?
But it's true, my favorite rounds these days tend to be introducing someone new to stuff like "How a supermatter setup works and why."
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
- san7890
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
The college professors (who I tend to respect in high regards) all say the same thing: "Teaching someone is the best way to deepen your own understanding of the subject matter. This is because you must refashion your knowledge into terms that the other person can relate to it in, and that requires you to parse each fundamental concept in an accurate manner. However, you still have to find connections to bridge the gap between your world and their world."Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Tue May 10, 2022 7:59 pm -snip-
I'll even teach doctors myself as an AI, as I desperately try to get someone to finish it so I can have a Shell on late night servers, but sometimes it's just agonizingly hard people to listen to you.
But it's true, my favorite rounds these days tend to be introducing someone new to stuff like "How a supermatter setup works and why."
That's why I like helping people learn how to map.
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
RNG gated content is worse because the task is usually incredibly boring, unengaging and repetitive, so only the most powercreep cringe powergaming griefers will waste their time so they can get their griefing content.
In general I don't like any content you unlock that can be used to buff yourself/others, or assists in hunting antag. Good content is fun content that helps you achieve your job better, such as halon for suppressing fires, or tritium engine to keep the station powered.
In general I don't like any content you unlock that can be used to buff yourself/others, or assists in hunting antag. Good content is fun content that helps you achieve your job better, such as halon for suppressing fires, or tritium engine to keep the station powered.
- Shadowflame909
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
I've noticed a running pattern with atmos mains is that they tend to hate the majority of cool things in the game unless they're atmos
We play two different games. I couldn't do atmos to save my life. (Cant even set up an engine unless its solars)
We play two different games. I couldn't do atmos to save my life. (Cant even set up an engine unless its solars)
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- blackdav123
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
on a side note when does atmos use anything special to fix fires or atmos? backpack extinguisher can solve almost anything and in the event things get bad enough to need a tech the only person capable of causing it is the tech themselves
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
RNG stuff is good
As an IRC quote from Kor in my signature illustrates: <+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
As an IRC quote from Kor in my signature illustrates: <+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
I consider myself a /tg/station historian. If you're interested in the server history at all, feel free to ask me and I'll try and get you an answer! #ConcurForever
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[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
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<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
<KorMobile> you're a hero
[21:20:53] <%oranges> Baw "has cute legs" hoppen
DEAD: ADMIN(Owegno) says, "Nothing lewd happens in adminbus sadly."
[07:13:57] <Rockdtben> Keep in mind that I'm an extremely successful and wealthy male in his late twenties.
(F) DEAD: Professor DonkPocket says, "Admins preventchaos with good messages"
OOC: Pogoman122: Fun fact if someone trespasses on your kitchen just turn them into a nugget
<+KorPhaeron> russians have no souls so magic enrages them
<+KorPhaeron> people who don't like rng are not from /tg/ and are likely redditors
ausops wrote:apart from this there is literally nothing more to say other than that this is the first thread in five years to have achieved something.
- Timonk
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
I LOVE RNG
Part of the reason why dwarf fortress is my favourite game
That and the combat since basically everything is RNG in df
Part of the reason why dwarf fortress is my favourite game
That and the combat since basically everything is RNG in df
joooks wrote:Quoting a legend, at least im not a faggot lolNaloac wrote:
In short, this appeal is denied. Suck my nuts retard.
See you in 12 months unless you blacklist me for this
Timberpoes wrote: ↑ I'm going to admin timonk [...]. Fuck it, he's also now my second host vote if goof rejects.
pikeyeskey13 wrote: ↑ ok don't forget to shove it up your ass lmao oops u can delete this one I just wanted to make sure it went through
Agux909 wrote:Woah bravo there sir, post of the month you saved the thread. I feel overwhelmed by the echo of unlimited wisdom and usefulness sprouting from you post. Every Manuel player now feels embarrased to exist because of your much NEEDED wise words, you sure teached'em all, you genius, IQ lord.Timonk wrote:This is why we make fun of Manuel
The hut has perished at my hands.
The pink arrow is always right.
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Re: What's worse RNG gated content or Difficulty gated content
he was wrong, jesus was wrong
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