/tg/Station 13

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/66992
engineer gaming

Ghilker is a very determined and amazing feature coder. Atmos lovers and mains winning.

I'm not very good with math though. So that part of the game and I will always be at odds.

You don't need to do any math. Just turn the turbine on and minimise intake regulator.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 3:04 pm You don't need to do any math. Just turn the turbine on and minimise intake regulator.

And then the station runs out of power because you did the bare minimum. Good job.

before, you could run a supermatter on mostly CO2 as a high-risk high-reward scenario in which somebody could lightly sneeze on it and it would explode spectacularly in your face, radiation was actually lethal instead of the joke it is now, and you could still recover the station if engineering exploded via solars and clever use of pacmans

currently, the supermatter is a joke, nothing is useful beyond a bog-standard N2 SM with t4 capacitors, crystals no longer delaminate in space (making sabotage pointless if there's a single competent engineer to deconstruct one tile), radiation does less tox damage than a bee sting on average, and solars can't run the station. also if the crystal explodes a pacman won't even power a single cyborg/suit recharger/cell charger and will run out of fuel in 4 minutes anyway, so get bent

soon, the supermatter is practically indestructible and you have to be an atmos main to even do anything cool with it, at all, radiation is still stupid, solars can't power jack crap, you can now deconstruct the turbines 0.1 seconds into the shift to ruin the powernet for the entire shift, and i am in horrible pain

please stop touching my crystal. i beg you

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:57 pm before, you could run a supermatter on mostly CO2 as a high-risk high-reward scenario in which somebody could lightly sneeze on it and it would explode spectacularly in your face, radiation was actually lethal instead of the joke it is now,

I want this back. For some reason, this causes it to generate shitloads of O2 and then ignite now, but I can't be bothered to relearn anything with it because it'll change by the time I'm done testing anyway.

please no dude

blue color is cool though

the main issue is that the SM is already way too complex for most people to bother learning how to setup, add in turbine instead of passive coils and it just adds to its complexity

I like this but Scriptis is still right that engineering has been mechanically neutered into a button-touchy safe zone compared to singuloose, tesloose or even rads SM. The entire allure of engineering used to be that there was a sense of impending doom and danger even when everything was allegedly operating correctly. Aside from the rare shift where yellow squad are all new and trying to keep away a delam, engineering is now just too safe. Except for delam anomalies. I like those.

To follow up on that post-edit, I think linking the turbine to the SM solves the issue of the turbine just being a tritium making tumor on atmos, into truly being integrated in a way that feels very intuitive and classy. I think 90% of us agree that we'd like to see more danger and power production imminent from these areas in a way that has more weight than the current SM behavior now.

YBS wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:27 pm I like this but Scriptis is still right that engineering has been mechanically neutered into a button-touchy safe zone compared to singuloose, tesloose or even rads SM. The entire allure of engineering used to be that there was a sense of impending doom and danger even when everything was allegedly operating correctly. Aside from the rare shift where yellow squad are all new and trying to keep away a delam, engineering is now just too safe. Except for delam anomalies. I like those.

I agree with this. The singulo was incredibly easy and simple to setup, even easier than the SM. It was stupid easy, but the fact if things did go wrong the station would be completely wrecked, was very cool. Infrequent mass destruction is much more fun than frequent little delams that result in kind of messed up power and a small hole in engineering.

this blows

I think we should just take away Ghilker's ability to make PR's about this.

It shouldn't be changing every 30 minutes. Has Genetics or Virology seen a major overhaul in years? No, Genetics just got a UI tweak.

God knows they NEED the overhaul, meanwhile the SM changes every time he gets bored or runs out of ideas for how he can change it this time. If you dare criticize him, however, he'll drag you into Coder General and start insulting you.

if only we could get a genetics lover like ghilker loves the games atmos systems

Genetics would be a marvel comic!!!

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 4:10 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 3:04 pm You don't need to do any math. Just turn the turbine on and minimise intake regulator.

And then the station runs out of power because you did the bare minimum. Good job.

Then do what you normally do to optimise the SM if demand gets too high, which isn't even common anyways. The only thing that has changed is you upgrade turbine with turbine parts instead of tesla coils. Gases that make the default SM go on fire are better for power generation, which was sometimes the case with tesla and radiation SM, but now it will always be the case as those gases make SM output more gases.

You don't need to do math to understand any of this. The extra added difficulty is pretty much the same as when we had radiation collectors, except silicons could still set this up so it's even easier than radiation collectors.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 4:10 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 3:04 pm You don't need to do any math. Just turn the turbine on and minimise intake regulator.

And then the station runs out of power because you did the bare minimum. Good job.

1% intake regulator isn't bare minimum it's just straight up the best way to run turbines at the moment if you have high temp gas, might make a simplegraph on it if there's interest

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:57 pm before, you could run a supermatter on mostly CO2 as a high-risk high-reward scenario in which somebody could lightly sneeze on it and it would explode spectacularly in your face, radiation was actually lethal instead of the joke it is now, and you could still recover the station if engineering exploded via solars and clever use of pacmans

currently, the supermatter is a joke, nothing is useful beyond a bog-standard N2 SM with t4 capacitors, crystals no longer delaminate in space (making sabotage pointless if there's a single competent engineer to deconstruct one tile), radiation does less tox damage than a bee sting on average, and solars can't run the station. also if the crystal explodes a pacman won't even power a single cyborg/suit recharger/cell charger and will run out of fuel in 4 minutes anyway, so get bent

soon, the supermatter is practically indestructible and you have to be an atmos main to even do anything cool with it, at all, radiation is still stupid, solars can't power jack crap, you can now deconstruct the turbines 0.1 seconds into the shift to ruin the powernet for the entire shift, and i am in horrible pain

please stop touching my crystal. i beg you

Everything you said is wrong. Except for rads, that part is true.
-CO2 SM was the easiest thing you could do, even with the roundstart setup you could make MWs of power, without any difficulty. Now CO2 danger has been buffed so is not that basic to do (you can get 10 MWs from a proper co2 setup now)
-Try to open a hole in the chamber while is delaminating, the SM will delaminate harder now since i made that change.
-Solars were never meant to run a station by themselves, neither were the pacmans.
-I'm making the SM have more role for the station and not be a ON/OFF engine like those shitty singulo and tesla were (5 minute setup with no difference between each possible build is shit) same with power.

the turbine i don't know what that is, will check to be sure.

Anyway i've closed that PR so it doesn't matter for now

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:36 pm

YBS wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:27 pm I like this but Scriptis is still right that engineering has been mechanically neutered into a button-touchy safe zone compared to singuloose, tesloose or even rads SM. The entire allure of engineering used to be that there was a sense of impending doom and danger even when everything was allegedly operating correctly. Aside from the rare shift where yellow squad are all new and trying to keep away a delam, engineering is now just too safe. Except for delam anomalies. I like those.

I agree with this. The singulo was incredibly easy and simple to setup, even easier than the SM. It was stupid easy, but the fact if things did go wrong the station would be completely wrecked, was very cool. Infrequent mass destruction is much more fun than frequent little delams that result in kind of messed up power and a small hole in engineering.

Singulo as engine was bad because it couldn't be changed in any way, you couldn't interact with it after it was made, it was literally the definition of ON/OFF engine.
I'm trying to give to the SM more things and dangers but is not something that can be done all in one safe for a total rework (which i'm not going to do)



I'm always open to suggestion, feedbacks, ideas and criticisms, if all those come with proper arguments that can be talked about and not just "this change sucks".

For everyone else saying shit about me, do that in my face and don't hide in some forum or discord chats without pings like a pussy

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:25 pm please no dude

blue color is cool though

the main issue is that the SM is already way too complex for most people to bother learning how to setup, add in turbine instead of passive coils and it just adds to its complexity

set internals to 0, scrubbers to siphon. Remove the middle pipe on infront of the doors replace the kpa pipes with regular pipes. Also I have to post this somewhere.

Ghilker wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:51 am

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:57 pm before, you could run a supermatter on mostly CO2 as a high-risk high-reward scenario in which somebody could lightly sneeze on it and it would explode spectacularly in your face, radiation was actually lethal instead of the joke it is now, and you could still recover the station if engineering exploded via solars and clever use of pacmans

currently, the supermatter is a joke, nothing is useful beyond a bog-standard N2 SM with t4 capacitors, crystals no longer delaminate in space (making sabotage pointless if there's a single competent engineer to deconstruct one tile), radiation does less tox damage than a bee sting on average, and solars can't run the station. also if the crystal explodes a pacman won't even power a single cyborg/suit recharger/cell charger and will run out of fuel in 4 minutes anyway, so get bent

soon, the supermatter is practically indestructible and you have to be an atmos main to even do anything cool with it, at all, radiation is still stupid, solars can't power jack crap, you can now deconstruct the turbines 0.1 seconds into the shift to ruin the powernet for the entire shift, and i am in horrible pain

please stop touching my crystal. i beg you

Everything you said is wrong. Except for rads, that part is true.
-CO2 SM was the easiest thing you could do, even with the roundstart setup you could make MWs of power, without any difficulty. Now CO2 danger has been buffed so is not that basic to do (you can get 10 MWs from a proper co2 setup now)
-Try to open a hole in the chamber while is delaminating, the SM will delaminate harder now since i made that change.
-Solars were never meant to run a station by themselves, neither were the pacmans.
-I'm making the SM have more role for the station and not be a ON/OFF engine like those shitty singulo and tesla were (5 minute setup with no difference between each possible build is shit) same with power.

the turbine i don't know what that is, will check to be sure.

Anyway i've closed that PR so it doesn't matter for now

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:36 pm

YBS wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:27 pm I like this but Scriptis is still right that engineering has been mechanically neutered into a button-touchy safe zone compared to singuloose, tesloose or even rads SM. The entire allure of engineering used to be that there was a sense of impending doom and danger even when everything was allegedly operating correctly. Aside from the rare shift where yellow squad are all new and trying to keep away a delam, engineering is now just too safe. Except for delam anomalies. I like those.

I agree with this. The singulo was incredibly easy and simple to setup, even easier than the SM. It was stupid easy, but the fact if things did go wrong the station would be completely wrecked, was very cool. Infrequent mass destruction is much more fun than frequent little delams that result in kind of messed up power and a small hole in engineering.

Singulo as engine was bad because it couldn't be changed in any way, you couldn't interact with it after it was made, it was literally the definition of ON/OFF engine.
I'm trying to give to the SM more things and dangers but is not something that can be done all in one safe for a total rework (which i'm not going to do)



I'm always open to suggestion, feedbacks, ideas and criticisms, if all those come with proper arguments that can be talked about and not just "this change sucks".

For everyone else saying shit about me, do that in my face and don't hide in some forum or discord chats without pings like a pussy

FTR you have put a massive amount of work in to the yellow side of the station and I have nothing but respect for that level of effort.

Since I am code stupid, the only feedback I can provide is a ‘hand feel’ from personally playing engineering.

I have a low info base for why rads were removed, but I think relapsing the SM into being a radiation heavy space is ultimately good for the game. A shower area could be added as a buffer from SM as ‘decontamination’ to go with the radsuits and all the mechanically supportive elements that made a “safely operating” sm feel more alive.

Ghilker wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:51 am

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:57 pm before, you could run a supermatter on mostly CO2 as a high-risk high-reward scenario in which somebody could lightly sneeze on it and it would explode spectacularly in your face, radiation was actually lethal instead of the joke it is now, and you could still recover the station if engineering exploded via solars and clever use of pacmans

currently, the supermatter is a joke, nothing is useful beyond a bog-standard N2 SM with t4 capacitors, crystals no longer delaminate in space (making sabotage pointless if there's a single competent engineer to deconstruct one tile), radiation does less tox damage than a bee sting on average, and solars can't run the station. also if the crystal explodes a pacman won't even power a single cyborg/suit recharger/cell charger and will run out of fuel in 4 minutes anyway, so get bent

soon, the supermatter is practically indestructible and you have to be an atmos main to even do anything cool with it, at all, radiation is still stupid, solars can't power jack crap, you can now deconstruct the turbines 0.1 seconds into the shift to ruin the powernet for the entire shift, and i am in horrible pain

please stop touching my crystal. i beg you

Everything you said is wrong. Except for rads, that part is true.
-CO2 SM was the easiest thing you could do, even with the roundstart setup you could make MWs of power, without any difficulty. Now CO2 danger has been buffed so is not that basic to do (you can get 10 MWs from a proper co2 setup now)
-Try to open a hole in the chamber while is delaminating, the SM will delaminate harder now since i made that change.
-Solars were never meant to run a station by themselves, neither were the pacmans.
-I'm making the SM have more role for the station and not be a ON/OFF engine like those shitty singulo and tesla were (5 minute setup with no difference between each possible build is shit) same with power.

the turbine i don't know what that is, will check to be sure.

Anyway i've closed that PR so it doesn't matter for now

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:36 pm

YBS wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:27 pm I like this but Scriptis is still right that engineering has been mechanically neutered into a button-touchy safe zone compared to singuloose, tesloose or even rads SM. The entire allure of engineering used to be that there was a sense of impending doom and danger even when everything was allegedly operating correctly. Aside from the rare shift where yellow squad are all new and trying to keep away a delam, engineering is now just too safe. Except for delam anomalies. I like those.

I agree with this. The singulo was incredibly easy and simple to setup, even easier than the SM. It was stupid easy, but the fact if things did go wrong the station would be completely wrecked, was very cool. Infrequent mass destruction is much more fun than frequent little delams that result in kind of messed up power and a small hole in engineering.

Singulo as engine was bad because it couldn't be changed in any way, you couldn't interact with it after it was made, it was literally the definition of ON/OFF engine.
I'm trying to give to the SM more things and dangers but is not something that can be done all in one safe for a total rework (which i'm not going to do)



I'm always open to suggestion, feedbacks, ideas and criticisms, if all those come with proper arguments that can be talked about and not just "this change sucks".

For everyone else saying shit about me, do that in my face and don't hide in some forum or discord chats without pings like a pussy

It would be nice if we had the option to manually singuloose/tesloose an SM crystal and could contain+ get power from the resulting singularity. It wouldn't even have to be a lot of power, just a fun thing the extra deranged engies could get up to

YBS wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:08 pm I have a low info base for why rads were removed, but I think relapsing the SM into being a radiation heavy space is ultimately good for the game. A shower area could be added as a buffer from SM as ‘decontamination’ to go with the radsuits and all the mechanically supportive elements that made a “safely operating” sm feel more alive.

I agree with this, the radiation change was bad, i'd prefer to see them gone instead of have a limping rad wave that does almost nothing.

Annihilite111 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:34 pm It would be nice if we had the option to manually singuloose/tesloose an SM crystal and could contain+ get power from the resulting singularity. It wouldn't even have to be a lot of power, just a fun thing the extra deranged engies could get up to

Sorry double post, i didn't see this one

I'm actually working on that

I've spent a significant amount of time engine tending and doing silly things with it over the last few months, so I'm giving my takes.

1. I really enjoy making massive piping/cooling/filtering set ups. Farming pluxioum or a scant amount of tritium created by repeatedly putting the engine into a failure/control state. Very fun even if I don't have a use for them.
2. I don't hate the radiation changes, it mostly means that you can work around a failing engine without the CE hardsuit, but you'll likely have to grab some chemicals after or die a slow death. It's mostly the removal of a fun tax.
3. Ice box is both my most beloved and hated map. Hated because your passive cooling isn't as strong, loved because you have the chance to have access to bulk miasma/a few other gases.
4. Trying to do higher tier fusion memes is a pain and I can't do it. The feedback on what you're doing while it is going is often lacking and you typically only get 1 attempt a round. This part sucks when rounds commonly go 2-3 hours.
5. Playing with emitters is fun, rearranging them to have wild patterns ect. I think the most I ever had going to the engine was 32. It's disappointing that the feature where you can replace what kind of shot the emitter does doesn't do diddly.
6. The engine is currently very durable/easy to save from pretty much any point in time.
7. If I don't set it up there's about a 50/50 the station has no power and that just leads to a vote-restart.
8. Some of the most fun I was having was with high powered Co2/plasma/oxygen themed set ups where I'd be running at or around tesla delam values and needed to make an engineering set up that would be able to withstand an explosion or three but still be able to hold steady.

None of that's useful feedback for Ghilker really, just on topic ramblings.

This comment resonates hard with me

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:57 pm soon, the supermatter is practically indestructible and you have to be an atmos main to even do anything cool with it, at all, radiation is still stupid, solars can't power jack crap, you can now deconstruct the turbines 0.1 seconds into the shift to ruin the powernet for the entire shift, and i am in horrible pain

Ghilker wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:36 pm

Annihilite111 wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 4:34 pm It would be nice if we had the option to manually singuloose/tesloose an SM crystal and could contain+ get power from the resulting singularity. It wouldn't even have to be a lot of power, just a fun thing the extra deranged engies could get up to

Sorry double post, i didn't see this one

I'm actually working on that

Giga based

Man if we're just generating power by spinning a turbine why do we need a yellow crystal that turns you to bones? We should swap to fossil fuels, build a big tube that reaches to Lavaland and suck up their dinosaur juice

Ghilker wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:51 am

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:57 pm ...

...

Singulo as engine was bad because it couldn't be changed in any way, you couldn't interact with it after it was made, it was literally the definition of ON/OFF engine.
I'm trying to give to the SM more things and dangers but is not something that can be done all in one safe for a total rework (which i'm not going to do)

I'm always open to suggestion, feedbacks, ideas and criticisms, if all those come with proper arguments that can be talked about and not just "this change sucks".

For everyone else saying shit about me, do that in my face and don't hide in some forum or discord chats without pings like a pussy

you're in the player's club, where effort is forbidden and all bets are off . i also felt that my criticisms had already been addressed in the PR by other people, so i didn't feel compelled to post there.

first, i'd like to share two things.

this is my favorite engine setup of all time that I've put together. it's a synthmeat-powered supermatter that also burns exhaust gasses in a turbine on the bridge. it is easily one of the coolest things we (me and my engineering department) have ever put together, and it was an absolute blast for everyone involved. i want more of this, and more features that encourage setups like this.
this is my favorite shift of all time during a nuclear emergency, in which i camped in a pre-rad-nerf SM trapped to hell and back against nuclear operatives with dozens of reinforcements. again, players gathered around the supermatter in an incredibly creative way. i want more of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8nBIRBg5UU

second, i'd like to address that i love a lot of the stuff you've been contributing recently.

- new anomalies
- prop gas masks
- delamination anomaly spew
- the fucking crystal cascade

i fucking love these. they are incredible and i love you for adding them.

but then there's this trend towards inter-departmental cooperation, which isn't always a good thing.

a rule of thumb for me is that on sybil (LRP), i should be able to do my job alone, regardless of other players. playing with other people is great, but if other people are being useless, i need to be able to solve problems.

my metric for this is a roboticist on a station with no (competent) miners or engineers. i have no materials and no power. my APC is dying. fortunately, by virtue being extremely robust,

- i can build a mining ripley and my own ore silo and do the mining myself
- i can use a PACMAN to power my department until the engineers can get their shit together
- using the above, i can make cyborgs who can fix the problems nobody else is fixing (which also re-introduces players to the round!)

as of recently, i can do none of these things.

- a PACMAN can barely power robotics (which uses nearly 10kW with one exofab running, and you're totally fucked if you want to charge a power cell or use a borg recharger)
- you can no longer put 217-D heavy plasma cutters on mining ripleys (this isn't your fault)
- cyborgs can't charge because the borg chargers outpace PACMANs, and PACMANs burn through fuel faster than i can find plasma sheets

just as the station shouldn't necessarily have to rely on medical (anyone can practice medicine using ghetto tools or otherwise improvising) the station shouldn't necessarily have to rely on engineering. if one department fails, another should be able to pick up the slack. this just isn't the case for engineering anymore. if engineering doesn't do anything--if nobody plays engineer, if nobody sets up the crystal, if nobody mends those god damn wires in maints north of the engine--you're fucked. totally fucked. your department will run out of power, and you will not be able to do anything about it unless you set up the engine. god help you if the crystal delaminates. engineering has become mandatory for anyone to have fun playing the game, and it's the only department like that currently.

medical understaffed? not getting revived? respawn as a borg or other ghost role
cargo understaffed? can't get your orders? break in and DIY
security understaffed? getting ganked by traitors? make improvised weapons and kill them yourself
science understaffed? nobody doing experiments? build your own R&D console and do the research, no problem
engineering understaffed? crystal underwent a super weak delamination? your department out of power? get bent, lights out.

a PACMAN can put out, at max, 10kW for about five minutes on ten sheets of plasma.

- two stasis beds in medical draw 7kW, good luck keeping those on for long
- two active cyborg rechargers draw 11kW. get fucked, silicon mains
- botany? autogrow? i've seen your 30kW draw on my CE console. better off jumping out of an airlock
- you like plumbing? lol. lmao. nice 80kW draw, idiot

some of the most fun shifts i've had on /tg/ are where the engine explodes and i'm left to fend for myself. this is now impossible because you can't reasonably be expected to do anything if the engine delaminates other than call the shuttle.

there needs to be more than one way to power my department, and i shouldn't have to rely on the yellow shirts to do it for me if they're a bunch of morons

there's my real feedback, there's my real grief, there's my real problem. i trust you to make the engine more interesting. i trust you to make it more engaging. at present, i do not trust you to actually balance how critical engineering is to the station

A long long time ago you could run the engine on goonstation by shoving live monkeys into a furnace to burn as fuel to provide heat for the hot loop.
Since this doesn't even come close to that I'm going to have to give it a frown.

Sorry champ, better luck next time.

If we had power bars then it would be cool if you could setup PACMANs to give power to your area, but everything would be on low power mode (which would in theory mean everything is less powerful)

I wanted to do power bars but everything around the SM makes no sense to me anymore and it would require that there be a real limit on how much you could make

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 7:47 pm If we had power bars then it would be cool if you could setup PACMANs to give power to your area, but everything would be on low power mode (which would in theory mean everything is less powerful)

I wanted to do power bars but everything around the SM makes no sense to me anymore and it would require that there be a real limit on how much you could make

if you just slowed equipment down scaled against how much power was available on the grid this would fix all of my complaints, but currently, if your equipment draws too much power in the first place, you're fucked, your APC dies, and you're out of a job

edit: consider modded minecraft powernet mechanics (slowing of mekanism/thermal expansion machines)

edit 2: give each department its own SMES so the powernet isn't just one giant trainwreck

IDK why we need all this complexity for engineering, or why we even needed the supermatter in the first place...
What does it really add to the game? Just seems a bit unnecessary, with the scope of this game being about roleplay, conflict, sabotage, etc

Personally, I think we should focus the engine being on something that requires interaction in a way that stimulates player flow + potential for conflict, error, sabotage, etc, while also having a magnificent destructive failure sequence for the fun of the round.

Wait... I think we might've already had an engine like that...

-Signed, Part 5,311,045 of why the Singulo was the best engine and should never have been removed

keep seeing "gregtechification" and laughing. what a great mod name

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:11 pm IDK why we need all this complexity for engineering, or why we even needed the supermatter in the first place...
What does it really add to the game? Just seems a bit unnecessary, with the scope of this game being about roleplay, conflict, sabotage, etc

Personally, I think we should focus the engine being on something that requires interaction in a way that stimulates player flow + potential for conflict, error, sabotage, etc, while also having a magnificent destructive failure sequence for the fun of the round.

Wait... I think we might've already had an engine like that...

-Signed, Part 5,311,045 of why the Singulo was the best engine and should never have been removed

this is very adjacent to what i mean when i say i have bad takes about power these days, because it's hard to not sound like anything other than an among us player when i have more recently been thinking producing power should be dead simple while still allowing room for dramatic failure in exchange for more power (without being dramatic failures based on not knowing the precise atmos math), and make use of power bars (which is done best when power is fairly straightforward). i wont trample on the work of people who are putting in serious effort for something extremely cool (the supermatter)

...but i believe it

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:44 am

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:11 pm IDK why we need all this complexity for engineering, or why we even needed the supermatter in the first place...
What does it really add to the game? Just seems a bit unnecessary, with the scope of this game being about roleplay, conflict, sabotage, etc

Personally, I think we should focus the engine being on something that requires interaction in a way that stimulates player flow + potential for conflict, error, sabotage, etc, while also having a magnificent destructive failure sequence for the fun of the round.

Wait... I think we might've already had an engine like that...

-Signed, Part 5,311,045 of why the Singulo was the best engine and should never have been removed

this is very adjacent to what i mean when i say i have bad takes about power these days, because it's hard to not sound like anything other than an among us player when i have more recently been thinking producing power should be dead simple while still allowing room for dramatic failure in exchange for more power (without being dramatic failures based on not knowing the precise atmos math), and make use of power bars (which is done best when power is fairly straightforward). i wont trample on the work of people who are putting in serious effort for something extremely cool (the supermatter)

...but i believe it

Okay but you're both right and are able to clearly articulate what makes old systems superior to new ones

As boomer as "what makes old systems superior to new ones" sounds when taken out of the context of these changes

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Mon May 16, 2022 11:11 pm IDK why we need all this complexity for engineering, or why we even needed the supermatter in the first place...
What does it really add to the game? Just seems a bit unnecessary, with the scope of this game being about roleplay, conflict, sabotage, etc

Personally, I think we should focus the engine being on something that requires interaction in a way that stimulates player flow + potential for conflict, error, sabotage, etc, while also having a magnificent destructive failure sequence for the fun of the round.

Wait... I think we might've already had an engine like that...

-Signed, Part 5,311,045 of why the Singulo was the best engine and should never have been removed

Tinkering with the SM is a lot of fun though. I still don't know why shit sets it on fire sometimes, but ss13 engineering/atmos is like alchemy: You have no idea why it works, only increasingly tenous theories, and knowledge of its inner workings is the sole providence of the elder mystics
That sometimes venture out from the realm of Campbell to share their wisdom (code d*vers need not apply)

Who's Greg and why are they building an SM

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 9:01 am Who's Greg and why are they building an SM

GregoriousT LOVES turbines and pipes