The Unballisticing, Pt. 2 Peanut

[Valorium]

Read the PR here:
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/67768

Combat shotguns are gone. Now we have energy shotguns and a laser machine gun forcefield projector...thing.

Read the design document here:
https://hackmd.io/@6DbtsAKCTtW_9MByKFjZqg/r1xYKCNOt

Other aspects:
- Potential removal of pipeguns, if crew continues attempting to regularly utilize ballistics
- Potential further nerfing or removal of Mosins
- Potential movement of the Deltra (the laser machine gun) to ERTs

Thoughts?

[Shadowflame909]

I'm not against it as long as it isn't a nerf for some reason.

All the antag reflective items could reflect ballistics too. So no issue in my book

[Pandarsenic]

Energy for Nanotrasen

Ballistics for Syndicate

Simple as

[Turbonerd]

I don't think improvised pipeguns would get removed because they are not manufactured by NanoTrasen. It makes sense for NanoTrasen to move away from ballistics, because they could damage the integrity of the station, and maybe even make small hull breaches which would add a lot of extra maintenance for the station. Energy weapons are much safer as they can't cause micro breaches or damage station integrity as much. The Syndicate uses ballistics because they're going to blow up the station anyways.

[Boot]

I just don't like the dishonesty here. If they want to nix every ballistic other then antag/double-barrel they should just say that. Yes it will get push back because its a fucking retarded idea but its this shady "I'll say one thing in a git comment and another in the design-doc" that rubs me the wrong way. Hey it could just be a mistake tho, would be nice if Necro would clear it up.

[Yulice]

Sec being absolutely crushed by an EMP and being more incentivized to just fucking destroy the ablative coat in the armory is fucking stupid.

[Super Aggro Crag]

i just want to ch-chk boom

[BONERMASTER]

I'm more of a ballistics guy, and all those PRs to replace them with bargin bin "laser" weapons hurt me on an emotional level. I'd be more cool with laser weapons if these were actually as deadly as they should be, i.e. hitscan speed, melting bodyparts & material, devestating damage and a sound that makes you clench your ass cheeks.

These energy pistols that replaced the autorifles, from a balance point it's interesting maybe, from a soul level though, absolute pussy shit! Like shooting puffy, short range energy balls, how soft can you be brother? It just ain't the same as going ch-chk on the autorifle and unloading it into a crowd of innocent crewmembers, not even close!
If you want me to respect your laser weapons, you got to make them mean, deadly and fucking ruthless. They're LASER WEAPONS brother, these things should cut you in half, you get me??

Personal opinion: Stop worrying about the rule of balance, start worrying about the rule of cool.


With loaded regards
-BONERMASTER

[massa]

I'm more of a ballistics guy, and all those PRs to replace them with bargin bin "laser" weapons hurt me on an emotional level. I'd be more cool with laser weapons if these were actually as deadly as they should be, i.e. hitscan speed, melting bodyparts & material, devestating damage and a sound that makes you clench your ass cheeks.

These energy pistols that replaced the autorifles, from a balance point it's interesting maybe, from a soul level though, absolute pussy shit! Like shooting puffy, short range energy balls, how soft can you be brother? It just ain't the same as going ch-chk on the autorifle and unloading it into a crowd of innocent crewmembers, not even close!
If you want me to respect your laser weapons, you got to make them mean, deadly and fucking ruthless. They're LASER WEAPONS brother, these things should cut you in half, you get me??

Personal opinion: Stop worrying about the rule of balance, start worrying about the rule of cool.


With loaded regards
-BONERMASTER

Aesthetics are the #1 thing to consider, and laser weaponry needs a beefing up.

Also the current spriters need to stop abusing borderline neon colors. It's the last thing they all need to do to ascend, tame their colors.

[Kendrickorium]

>energy shotgun

sign me up

also hey coders i'll toss someone 50 bucks if you want to make a halo 2 needler that fits in a backpack and starts in the captains locker??

[oranges]

Yep

That's going in my cringe collection

[bastardblaster]

holy shit rev up minigun

[Kendrickorium]

Yep

That's going in my cringe collection

what function do you perform that any other coder can't do?

[oranges]

Yep

That's going in my cringe collection

what function do you perform that any other coder can't do?

Yep

That's going in my cringe collection

[Kendrickorium]

[dirk_mcblade]

There's no good reason to remove pipeguns. Even a moron in current day can make a slamfire shotgun there's no reason this should be unattainable in the game.

[san7890]

wrote some algorithm for kyler once i think

[toemas]

what function do you perform that any other coder can't do?

he handles the heat and gets blamed for everything for them

[TheFinalPotato]

wrote some algorithm for kyler once i think

did you know we have 2500 copies of a mob called oranges_ear that we teleport onto intercomms and other non mob things when they want to hear something?

[sinfulbliss]

Ballistics are cool. Everything HAVING to be energy because NT is energy-only-futuristic is weird rationale. Why can't NT have shotguns?
They're not even good also. Their only use-case is spending an exorbitant amount of time to make improvs, which are still only good at close range and have massive downsides and damage falloff.

[Kendrickorium]

what function do you perform that any other coder can't do?

he handles the heat and gets blamed for everything for them

explain

[Pandarsenic]

Ballistics are cool. Everything HAVING to be energy because NT is energy-only-futuristic is weird rationale. Why can't NT have shotguns?

I always thought, thematically/fluffwise, it's because NT has all these crazy powerful, thermodynamics-questionable engines to recharge them, so it's cheaper than providing stations with supplies of bullets/having them print on site, when those materials could otherwise be getting used on other projects, other stations, etc.

[Iatots]

"Lore" has to be one of the worst things to happen to this game.
Dark souls and its consequences has been a disaster for the gaming race.

[iamgoofball]

>energy shotgun

sign me up

also hey coders i'll toss someone 50 bucks if you want to make a halo 2 needler that fits in a backpack and starts in the captains locker??

Bet?

[iwishforducks]

bro i just want the coolness of a shotgun. like laser shotgun seems cool in its own right but at the end of the day nothing beats the BOOM of a shotgun

[XII3912]

ballistics will literally cease to exist, if this gets merged im pretty sure the only way for the CREW to get ballistics is either a certain locker , the safe on delta & Kilo or killing a antag that has access to ballistics still (traitors & nuke ops)

[NecromancerAnne]

The riot blaster uses the current shotgun noises because they are literally just shotguns with a battery attached and different ammo (which does not determine fire sound) with no significant changes beyond this from its immediate parent, the baseline shotgun. You rack it and it makes the big boom.

The Deltra uses the beefier thermal pistol sounds I added and impact like bullets because they are, in fact, children of ballistics. Like it is actually just shooting ballistic bullets.

We can do a lot with what we have currently and a few swapped around vars. Beside the outlined restrictions that should remain as core limitations, the skys the limit as to how we can design things. We could just have glocks with a potato battery attached to it and that's fine if it means there is a need to recharge it. Overengineered future guns is kind of in-keeping with NT I feel.

[nianjiilical]

did you know we have 2500 copies of a mob called oranges_ear that we teleport onto intercomms and other non mob things when they want to hear something?

i checked github and its real god damn i love video game coding

[Pandarsenic]

did you know we have 2500 copies of a mob called oranges_ear that we teleport onto intercomms and other non mob things when they want to hear something?

i checked github and its real god damn i love video game coding

What the actual fuck

It's real

[Not-Dorsidarf]

wrote some algorithm for kyler once i think

did you know we have 2500 copies of a mob called oranges_ear that we teleport onto intercomms and other non mob things when they want to hear something?

is that a fixed number or are they dynamically created.



Oh the shotgun change seems cool, but I dont think the new sprite reps the hybrid nature of the new shotty very well

[NecromancerAnne]

The sprites going to be replaced soon.

[TheFinalPotato]

wrote some algorithm for kyler once i think

did you know we have 2500 copies of a mob called oranges_ear that we teleport onto intercomms and other non mob things when they want to hear something?

is that a fixed number or are they dynamically created.



Oh the shotgun change seems cool, but I dont think the new sprite reps the hybrid nature of the new shotty very well

there's a fixed number that's pregenerated, and we allow for expanding the cache in case someone somehow requests more then that

[Rohen_Tahir]

wrote some algorithm for kyler once i think

did you know we have 2500 copies of a mob called oranges_ear that we teleport onto intercomms and other non mob things when they want to hear something?

is that a fixed number or are they dynamically created.



Oh the shotgun change seems cool, but I dont think the new sprite reps the hybrid nature of the new shotty very well

real.PNG (6.12 KiB) Viewed 5041 times

[Kendrickorium]

did you know we have 2500 copies of a mob called oranges_ear that we teleport onto intercomms and other non mob things when they want to hear something?

i checked github and its real god damn i love video game coding

im confused about what this actually is/means

[Kendrickorium]

>energy shotgun

sign me up

also hey coders i'll toss someone 50 bucks if you want to make a halo 2 needler that fits in a backpack and starts in the captains locker??

Bet?

it has to get MERGED, goof

[NecromancerAnne]

did you know we have 2500 copies of a mob called oranges_ear that we teleport onto intercomms and other non mob things when they want to hear something?

i checked github and its real god damn i love video game coding

im confused about what this actually is/means

Comms are haunted

[Mothblocks]

https://www.byond.com/docs/ref/#/proc/orange

[cacogen]

did we not learn our lesson with thermal pistols? don't replace something good with something shit... jesus chris t

and theyre shit because theyre jank, like a bad mod, prs that overhaul core parts of the game should be seamless (actually all prs should be but thats too much to hope)

[Shadowflame909]

oranges confirmed for sentient ai

[Jonathan Gupta]

my geniune reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrVju-ZVl1k

[toemas]

what function do you perform that any other coder can't do?

he handles the heat and gets blamed for everything for them

explain

think about it. like almost none of the changes in the past decade that people whinge about were ever implented by him, it was always one of his minions or something, but all the sperg rage seems to be directed towards him anyway

[XII3912]

what function do you perform that any other coder can't do?

he handles the heat and gets blamed for everything for them

explain

, it was always one of his minions or something,

I will be removing oxygen tanks from the game, and making gas masks blind you completely, ORANGES HAS SPOKEN

[XII3912]

did we not learn our lesson with thermal pistols? don't replace something good with something shit... jesus chris t

thermal pistols aren't shit i mean autorifles are clearly better but these things are great weapons especially the cryo pistols

[Stickymayhem]

Well the deltra just ends blob being an antag doesn't it

[NecromancerAnne]

Well the deltra just ends blob being an antag doesn't it

I was kind of slowly coming to this realisation. I have to consider actually just closing the pr on this alone, because I fucking hated how much particle beams did the same thing. The mere existence of this one antag makes actually having cool shit kind unreasonable without making blob feel awful. It works entirely okay in roughly 95% of situations, but the moment you factor in blob, a stationary defense antagonist, the deltra is just too strong against it. And I don't wanna do blob dirty like that.

[Shadowflame909]

Well the deltra just ends blob being an antag doesn't it

I was kind of slowly coming to this realisation. I have to consider actually just closing the pr on this alone, because I fucking hated how much particle beams did the same thing. The mere existence of this one antag makes actually having cool shit kind unreasonable without making blob feel awful. It works entirely okay in roughly 95% of situations, but the moment you factor in blob, a stationary defense antagonist, the deltra is just too strong against it. And I don't wanna do blob dirty like that.

Just make it disablers only then. Useless to the blob. good against crowd control

[chocolate_bickie]

Just buff blob

[Annihilite111]

Well the deltra just ends blob being an antag doesn't it

I was kind of slowly coming to this realisation. I have to consider actually just closing the pr on this alone, because I fucking hated how much particle beams did the same thing. The mere existence of this one antag makes actually having cool shit kind unreasonable without making blob feel awful. It works entirely okay in roughly 95% of situations, but the moment you factor in blob, a stationary defense antagonist, the deltra is just too strong against it. And I don't wanna do blob dirty like that.

If you really do scrap pipeguns (please dont they're a literal meme with how hard they are to craft + the utter dogshit blow-up-in-your-face chance), please replace it with a horrific microwave powered DIY egun with dogshit accuracy. I'm talking a bunch of micro lasers taped to a plank tier scuffed here. Also it can blow your arms off if you shoot too often (it's basically fine forever if you shoot once every 39 sec but if you spam it the odds of it going boom increases for every shot)

[Stickymayhem]

Well the deltra just ends blob being an antag doesn't it

I was kind of slowly coming to this realisation. I have to consider actually just closing the pr on this alone, because I fucking hated how much particle beams did the same thing. The mere existence of this one antag makes actually having cool shit kind unreasonable without making blob feel awful. It works entirely okay in roughly 95% of situations, but the moment you factor in blob, a stationary defense antagonist, the deltra is just too strong against it. And I don't wanna do blob dirty like that.

As the best blob player in the world, make the reflective blob reflect deltra shots and you turn it into a more balanced back and forth. Now when you send 10 projectiles down a hallway you might end up getting 8 back in your face. Low skill blobs will still complain, but it makes it another one of the resource decisions that makes for the best blob balance. Those deltra projectiles should still go through the cool shield wall thing so it's a good turnaround strat.

I do think the idea of a stationary "set up a shield, stand still and fling lasers down a hallway" gun is a good move to add complexity to the game's ranged combat

[NecromancerAnne]

And so I did