/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32105

i hate phillp thomas i want him to die and be nuggeted by plasma cutter


the captain probably didn't get banned at all lol

you just linked the ban appeals forum

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:26 am you just linked the ban appeals forum

no i dindt

The actual link is probably viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32105

captain deserves a note

philip you know better

also philip getting his legs hacked off for being philip is honestly pretty funny

WTF YOU MEAN I KNOW BETTER HE CUT MY LEGS OFF? DOES SOMEONE HAVE TO COME TO MY HOUSE AND ATTACK ME IRL FOR ME TO BE ALLOWED TO RETALIATE INGAME

i dont blame phillip

I blame the debrain meta

Should be disincentivized to debrain people outside of surgery. Like maybe getting sick from brain prions. Or by all the gushing blood blinding you

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:50 am i dont blame phillip

I blame the debrain meta

Should be disincentivized to debrain people outside of surgery. Like maybe getting sick from brain prions. Or by all the gushing blood blinding you

more debrain meta propganda

100% of rageguy's bans have appeals
deadmin NOW

wow did i do that

Oh no! The Captain who removed your legs for trying to breaking into tech storage and resisting arrest is now lying down in a pool of blood due to a traitor! What do you do in this situation?

A. Bring him to medbay.
B. Loot him, then bring him to medbay
C. Wait until he does, then loot him, THEN bring him to medbay.
D. Ignore his body.
E. Debrain and deep fry the captain even though he is completely helpless and you are not a traitor and it has been 20 minutes since your last interaction with him and you already got your legs back.

Archie700 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:59 am Oh no! The Captain who removed your legs for trying to breaking into tech storage and resisting arrest is now lying down in a pool of blood due to a traitor! What do you do in this situation?

A. Bring him to medbay.
B. Loot him, then bring him to medbay
C. Wait until he does, then loot him, THEN bring him to medbay.
D. Ignore his body.
E. Debrain and deep fry the captain even though he is completely helpless and you are not a traitor and it has been 20 minutes since your last interaction with him and you already got your legs back.

then dont cut peoples legs off retard lol lmao. its not like i was breaking into the fucking armory i just wanted a pair of gloves and some boards so i could build a chem thing and this fucking maint prowling ghoul jumps out of the darkness like a fucking vampire or some shit

You could have literally looted his sword, cap ID and gun, thrown him to medbay, and then laugh at him like a loser.
But "GRRR VALID KILL REMOVE FRY"

Archie700 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:12 am You could have literally looted his sword, cap ID and gun, thrown him to medbay, and then laugh at him like a loser.
But "GRRR VALID KILL REMOVE FRY"

do you think a guy willing to cut peoples legs off over minor offenses will respond with leniency if i do something to him that actually effects him? if i did anything to him and left him alive, i would have been round removed

also i dont really want any of his things? i left everything except the ID

This is really a fuck around and find out on Thomas' part and it's fucking hilarious.

Escalation policy literally says that once the fight's over and someone's had to be sent to Medical, the escalation is over and any new conflicts have to be escalated again. Obviously you can confront someone about it and then that leads to a fight, but someone who is already dying and you finish them off and then go as hard on round removing them as you possibly can doesn't fit that.

You greytided into somewhere that antags are gonna wanna get their hands on, acted like an antag got treated like an antag, and then Hard RR'd someone for it.

The greytide entitlement will always entertain me.

the tragedy is that if philip had ahelped about the captain chopping off his legs then he would have probably ended with things going his way

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:16 am acted like an antag got treated like an antag,

" dropped the gun on the ground for him, and ran away."

Thomas didn't act like a a antag a antag would've tried to fight back not run away lol.

celularLAmp wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:19 am

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:16 am acted like an antag got treated like an antag,

" dropped the gun on the ground for him, and ran away."

Thomas didn't act like a a antag a antag would've tried to fight back not run away lol.

What's more likely to get you RR'd as an antag? Being non-lethal, or killing people? Especially vs Captain.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:16 am This is really a fuck around and find out on Thomas' part and it's fucking hilarious.

Escalation policy literally says that once the fight's over and someone's had to be sent to Medical, the escalation is over and any new conflicts have to be escalated again. Obviously you can confront someone about it and then that leads to a fight, but someone who is already dying and you finish them off and then go as hard on round removing them as you possibly can doesn't fit that.

You greytided into somewhere that antags are gonna wanna get their hands on, acted like an antag got treated like an antag, and then Hard RR'd someone for it.

The greytide entitlement will always entertain me.

i welded a wall

I just want to say I disagree with toemas on one point in particular - the Captain should be considered as a member of the security team.

1. You can literally ask AI or borg to let you into tech storage instead of vandalizing the station and it would also be quicker and less likely to go noticed.
2. Phillip lost a fight fair and square and round removed the captain later because he was butthurt about it.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:18 am 1. You can literally ask AI or borg to let you into tech storage instead of vandalizing the station and it would also be quicker and less likely to go noticed.

it would not be quicker

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:16 amEscalation policy literally says that once the fight's over and someone's had to be sent to Medical, the escalation is over and any new conflicts have to be escalated again. Obviously you can confront someone about it and then that leads to a fight, but someone who is already dying and you finish them off and then go as hard on round removing them as you possibly can doesn't fit that.

"Excuse me sir, but you cut off my legs earlier."
What does it mean to "confront someone" about cutting off your legs and killing you?

This is an area where escalation policy really needs work. Hulk mentioned that it's not meant to be the "final" version and it is open to being adjusted overtime after all. The fact you can take someone out of the game for 20 minutes and really ruin their round, and they can't retaliate with similar force in response because the conflict is "over once one party is incapacitated," is bonkers to me, nor is it in-line with commonsense thinking or what we'd believe to be justified. I also don't see most admins treat it in this literal sense, although that's what it does mean.

If the captain was revived after Thomas killed and looted them, he absolutely would have immediately gunned down Thomas and round-removed him, despite the conflict being "over" once he was killed, and it almost certainly would not be enforced as against current escalation rules because it's the captain.

The captain loses his metaprotections when he decides to use lethals (i.e.: cutting off your legs with a sabre after you're already incapacitated) instead of nonlethals. Once he lost these metaprotections it stopped mattering that he was the "captain" as Rageguy seems to put emphasis on. The question is whether Thomas was acting like an antagonist in his initial conflict with him before the delimbing, because if not he had no justification in the further escalation and therefore should have been open to serious retaliation as a result.

captain had it coming.

Also: "you should have just ahelped the captain for poor escalation" is not a sufficient reply to this situation. If someone literally breaks the rules in their escalation with you, which the admin suggests the captain did, surely they open themselves up for serious retaliation regardless of how much time goes by or what happens in between. Players shouldn't be forced to ahelp things if they want to resolve it ICly, and handling things ICly should always be an allowed option.

sorry to say but chopping off a man's legs for casual tiding is wrong. the cap got what he deserved

Wouldn't this fall under the part "If the conflict leads to violence and you had a poor reason for causing conflict in the first place, you may face administrative action." on the captain's part? I don't see how it is vaild to kill someone for welding a wall. I also do not like when command/sec use extreme levels of harm to punish someone instead of just bringing them to brig and giving them time.

Philip shouldn't had round removed, but the captain played a dumb game and won a dumb prize. I feel like both parties should had been noted or admin should had just not gotten involved.

Agreed with sinful on this one. Escalation policy is quite silly in this case, it's not realistic roleplay to just "drop it" when the Captain chops off your god damn legs, and at the point that he did that, he stopped being protected by security metaprotections.

The real question is the exact events leading up to the Captain chopping off toemas' legs.

Rageguy505 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 2:07 amYou didn't mention that you also attempted to stun and cuff the captain when he tried to arrest you, and the captain mentioned that was his primary reasoning for cutting off your legs as a sentence.

Now, from an OOC rules perspective, we're supposed to assume that toemas is acting in good faith at this point. We're supposed to assume that toemas will, had he succeeded, cuff the captain, explain and defuse the situation, and not harm or strip him, since the Captain IS a member of security and under security metaprotections. Therefore, if we look at this from an OOC perspective, it's reasonable to say that the Captain overescalated by chopping off his legs, since he was technically never in danger since toemas would not have killed him.

However, from an IC perspective, it looks like toemas is trying to stun and cuff our beloved Captain, which, from the limited information we would have in game, means toemas could be considered a criminal who is trying to break in to places, steal shit, and assault our beloved captain. Our beloved Captain then heroically fought back and whacked off his legs to uphold justice, when he was very nearly stun-critted and at toemas' mercy.

So, considering the 2 conflicting perspectives of what both players are supposed to do both IC and OOC.... this whole thing should have been dismissed as an IC issue, because neither one of them was really wrong. The Captain overescalated by chopping off toemas' legs instead of arresting him, and toemas got revenge when he got back up. Were I an admin, I would have dismissed this case, or at most asked both parties to tone down their escalations next time, MAYBE a note (for both parties) at most for overescalation. Ban is too excessive.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:16 am This is really a fuck around and find out on Thomas' part and it's fucking hilarious.

You greytided into somewhere that antags are gonna wanna get their hands on, acted like an antag got treated like an antag, and then Hard RR'd someone for it.

The greytide entitlement will always entertain me.

so if a assistant hacks into tech storage that makes him a antag? and you can therefore kill them for doing something as simple as breaking into tech storage? breaking into tech storage (not secure tech storage) isn't very close to a antagonistic action the most you could do is stun them then random search. but yeah i dont think its ok to say that tiding tech storage is something only antags are likely to do and is thus a antagonistic action

XII3912 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:35 am

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:16 am This is really a fuck around and find out on Thomas' part and it's fucking hilarious.

You greytided into somewhere that antags are gonna wanna get their hands on, acted like an antag got treated like an antag, and then Hard RR'd someone for it.

The greytide entitlement will always entertain me.

so if a assistant hacks into tech storage that makes him a antag? and you can therefore kill them for doing something as simple as breaking into tech storage? breaking into tech storage (not secure tech storage) isn't very close to a antagonistic action the most you could do is stun them then random search. but yeah i dont think its ok to say that tiding tech storage is something only antags are likely to do and is thus a antagonistic action

I mean calling it antagonistic is a stretch I agree, but, you can arrest and brig people for b and e, just saying.

Wildly excessive punishments for petty criminals are extremely funny, but sec who use them should be fully aware that whoever they do it to is going to come back with a gun and relish the outcome whatever it is

toemas wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:15 am also i dont really want any of his things? i left everything except the ID

Stealing a ID makes you valid. The captain had every right to kill you. Why is anyone defending you?

technokek wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:48 pm

toemas wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:15 am also i dont really want any of his things? i left everything except the ID

Stealing a ID makes you valid. The captain had every right to kill you. Why is anyone defending you?

sorry I think you've misunderstood, I only took it after he cut my legs off and I had already killed him

toemas wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:41 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:18 am 1. You can literally ask AI or borg to let you into tech storage instead of vandalizing the station and it would also be quicker and less likely to go noticed.

it would not be quicker

It's quick enough.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 1:56 pm It's quick enough.

for u

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:18 am Also: "you should have just ahelped the captain for poor escalation" is not a sufficient reply to this situation. If someone literally breaks the rules in their escalation with you, which the admin suggests the captain did, surely they open themselves up for serious retaliation regardless of how much time goes by or what happens in between. Players shouldn't be forced to ahelp things if they want to resolve it ICly, and handling things ICly should always be an allowed option.

by the time it comes to our attention it’s suddenly 20 layers deep and we have to log dive and shit because you Fuckers (compliment, love you bastards) escalated the situation instead of just ahelping. just fucking ahelp guys seriously

as a side note, a captain that goes around slashing up people’s legs definitely gives up their metaprotections, but escalation rules are still in play. the captain is not innocent in this situation.

well you see this guy doesn't have his meta protections now but you have no blood and no legs

XII3912 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:35 am

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:16 am This is really a fuck around and find out on Thomas' part and it's fucking hilarious.

You greytided into somewhere that antags are gonna wanna get their hands on, acted like an antag got treated like an antag, and then Hard RR'd someone for it.

The greytide entitlement will always entertain me.

so if a assistant hacks into tech storage that makes him a antag? and you can therefore kill them for doing something as simple as breaking into tech storage? breaking into tech storage (not secure tech storage) isn't very close to a antagonistic action the most you could do is stun them then random search. but yeah i dont think its ok to say that tiding tech storage is something only antags are likely to do and is thus a antagonistic action

Greytiders have no rights.

If you choose to play the multiplayer roleplay game (remember, it's Low Roleplay not No Roleplay) as a singleplayer game, then you cannot complain when your actions have repercussions.

Perhaps consider using the Social option next time. You'll usually get good results.

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:47 pm by the time it comes to our attention it’s suddenly 20 layers deep and we have to log dive and shit because you Fuckers (compliment, love you bastards) escalated the situation instead of just ahelping. just fucking ahelp guys seriously

as a side note, a captain that goes around slashing up people’s legs definitely gives up their metaprotections, but escalation rules are still in play. the captain is not innocent in this situation.

I've been told countless times that breaking a rule against a rulebreaker is still bad because it's just creating more problems the admins have to sift through, on top of leaving Repeat Offenders to repeat offend because nothing can really be done about it. You can't exactly ban or note the Captain for his over-escalation after he just got Hard RR'd for it by a non-antag, at least not without hitting both. Which, Thomas very clearly Does Not Want To Be.

As much as I hate to say it, maybe the captain should not have cut off someone's legs and inflicted massive blood loss (two of the most annoying things you can do, combined) for someone breaking into a fairly low-sec area that doesn't belong to anyone, then trying to escape arrest nonlethally, using only his hands, some wires, and the Captain's own dropped gear??

And if he had, he loses the right to be surprised when the person he left in medical for 80% of the round thinks he should eat shit when they meet later?

Did the captain get a note or ban for this at all? If not he should atleast eat a note for over escalation.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:50 pm

XII3912 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:35 am

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:16 am This is really a fuck around and find out on Thomas' part and it's fucking hilarious.

You greytided into somewhere that antags are gonna wanna get their hands on, acted like an antag got treated like an antag, and then Hard RR'd someone for it.

The greytide entitlement will always entertain me.

so if a assistant hacks into tech storage that makes him a antag? and you can therefore kill them for doing something as simple as breaking into tech storage? breaking into tech storage (not secure tech storage) isn't very close to a antagonistic action the most you could do is stun them then random search. but yeah i dont think its ok to say that tiding tech storage is something only antags are likely to do and is thus a antagonistic action

Greytiders have no rights.

If you choose to play the multiplayer roleplay game (remember, it's Low Roleplay not No Roleplay) as a singleplayer game, then you cannot complain when your actions have repercussions.

Perhaps consider using the Social option next time. You'll usually get good results.

If you believe that anyone who ever commits the pettiest of petty crimes as a player deserves to be savaged so hard they spend 20 minutes dead, maybe you aren't on the side of more roleplay.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 6:56 pm

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:50 pm

XII3912 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:35 am

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 3:16 am This is really a fuck around and find out on Thomas' part and it's fucking hilarious.

You greytided into somewhere that antags are gonna wanna get their hands on, acted like an antag got treated like an antag, and then Hard RR'd someone for it.

The greytide entitlement will always entertain me.

so if a assistant hacks into tech storage that makes him a antag? and you can therefore kill them for doing something as simple as breaking into tech storage? breaking into tech storage (not secure tech storage) isn't very close to a antagonistic action the most you could do is stun them then random search. but yeah i dont think its ok to say that tiding tech storage is something only antags are likely to do and is thus a antagonistic action

Greytiders have no rights.

If you choose to play the multiplayer roleplay game (remember, it's Low Roleplay not No Roleplay) as a singleplayer game, then you cannot complain when your actions have repercussions.

Perhaps consider using the Social option next time. You'll usually get good results.

If you believe that anyone who ever commits the pettiest of petty crimes as a player deserves to be savaged so hard they spend 20 minutes dead, maybe you aren't on the side of more roleplay.

From a roleplay perspective, getting caught greytiding a single time would be an instant termination of your contract. If the setting isn't dystopian, you're handed over to the authorities. If the setting IS dystopian, the Corporation just kills you. As a result, people would be a lot less inclined to do it, because there's very real repercussions to it that, at the VERY BEST, ruins their life.

So if they're going to go Ignore IC about it, then sometimes you need to Ignore IC on the punishment, to incentivize people to stop.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:03 pm
From a roleplay perspective, getting caught greytiding a single time would be an instant termination of your contract. If the setting isn't dystopian, you're handed over to the authorities. If the setting IS dystopian, the Corporation just kills you. As a result, people would be a lot less inclined to do it, because there's very real repercussions to it that, at the VERY BEST, ruins their life.
So if they're going to go Ignore IC about it, then sometimes you need to Ignore IC on the punishment, to incentivize people to stop.

you are gay as fuck there's no system for firing people

you just get put in a little cell for 5 minutes and then you're let out to make you not do it again (but you will beacause you need the resources)

Breaking into anywhere instead of waiting for someone to come to front desk or for ai to open is annoying as fuck when you just want to do something as fast as possible (because some things in this game can take half the shift)

Oh im a secc officer I can kill anyone I want that annoys me because the setting is dystopian! no that doesn't fly lol.


Court trials are rarely seen because people just get perma'd or executed. I think court trials are fun but they take time and effort from both sides.

Local man makes himself a stun prod, tries to loot tech storage, and when the captain confronts him, he tries to stun the captain.

That alone makes him valid for round removal.

Instead the captain throws his delimbed body into medbay.

Then instead of reflecting on how his actions led to these consequences, he hunts down the captain and round removes him.

Should we really be surprised he omitted key details in his appeal in order to make himself look good?

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:25 pm Local man makes himself a stun prod, tries to loot tech storage, and when the captain confronts him, he tries to stun the captain.

That alone makes him valid for round removal.

Instead the captain throws his delimbed body into medbay.

Then instead of reflecting on how his actions led to these consequences, he hunts down the captain and round removes him.

Should we really be surprised he omitted key details in his appeal in order to make himself look good?

what stun prod lol?? why are you just making shit up

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:03 pm From a roleplay perspective, getting caught greytiding a single time would be an instant termination of your contract. If the setting isn't dystopian, you're handed over to the authorities. If the setting IS dystopian, the Corporation just kills you. As a result, people would be a lot less inclined to do it, because there's very real repercussions to it that, at the VERY BEST, ruins their life.

So if they're going to go Ignore IC about it, then sometimes you need to Ignore IC on the punishment, to incentivize people to stop.

your ignoring the context here that the area that was "greytided" into was tech storage. the literal purpose of the room is to store useful things for people to use; i chose to just weld the wall instead of asking the AI because its faster, more convenient, and doesnt harm or effect anyone in any tangible way

toemas wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:54 pm

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:25 pm Local man makes himself a stun prod, tries to loot tech storage, and when the captain confronts him, he tries to stun the captain.

That alone makes him valid for round removal.

Instead the captain throws his delimbed body into medbay.

Then instead of reflecting on how his actions led to these consequences, he hunts down the captain and round removes him.

Should we really be surprised he omitted key details in his appeal in order to make himself look good?

what stun prod lol?? why are you just making shit up

Admin said you tried to stun the captain. What did you use to stun him if not a prod?

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:25 pm Admin said you tried to stun the captain. What did you use to stun him if not a prod?

the egun he dropped after he slipped when i emptied an extinguisher, i emptied the gun at him on disable mode [like two or three shots] then just tossed it back to him

toemas wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:08 pm

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 8:25 pm Admin said you tried to stun the captain. What did you use to stun him if not a prod?

the egun he dropped after he slipped when i emptied an extinguisher, i emptied the gun at him on disable mode [like two or three shots] then just tossed it back to him

Wait, so the captain didn't just jump to lethals? He non-lethally tried to detain you?

And you prevented him from using nonlethals?

And then round removed him for using lethals?