/tg/Station 13

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/68480

whether or not the mode was good for tg in the end it always sucks seeing big removals

A mode like this is never going to work properly on a server like /tg/. An HRP one, maybe, but not here.

I didn't play it enough to really have an opinion, but it was very clearly not popular and there were very few people who seemed to enjoy playing it.

I liked old gangs where you could buy switchblades and uzis

Vekter wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:46 pm A mode like this is never going to work properly on a server like /tg/. An HRP one, maybe, but not here.

See, I never understood this take. Families seems tailor-made for an LRP/NRP codebase.

Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:18 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:46 pm A mode like this is never going to work properly on a server like /tg/. An HRP one, maybe, but not here.

See, I never understood this take. Families seems tailor-made for an LRP/NRP codebase.

Well when you use the antagonist system and then add a clause that says "you're not actually an antag use normal escalation like a normal crewmember" it throws the whole game design and rules for a loop

screw thieves for this too with no tools to circumvent our current scenarios too. (I should be able to escape easily if what Im going to do is going to get me into a kill or be killed situation, and I cannot kill)

I said it during the initial test merges, and I’ve said it countless times since: The entire notion of a “willing” conversion gamemode juts out like a huge sore thumb in contrast to our current policy and expectations from players. This was absolutely central to the implementation of families. It was fun when I had it, but this always lingered in the back of my mind. It’s not useful to dissect and critique every small nitpick that everyone has had with it over the years- all that’s left to do is watch as it dies its death.

OG gang was not williful conversion and it had a cool thing where you had to capture areas for points. the main complaint i think was that it was a tdm but you can say that shit about revs or cult. IT was cool get points buy weapons and gear and protect areas.

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:24 am

Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:18 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:46 pm A mode like this is never going to work properly on a server like /tg/. An HRP one, maybe, but not here.

See, I never understood this take. Families seems tailor-made for an LRP/NRP codebase.

Well when you use the antagonist system and then add a clause that says "you're not actually an antag use normal escalation like a normal crewmember" it throws the whole game design and rules for a loop

screw thieves for this too with no tools to circumvent our current scenarios too. (I should be able to escape easily if what Im going to do is going to get me into a kill or be killed situation, and I cannot kill)

I think escalation is more lax on thieves

I once stole non life threatening Organs of multiple people ans got away with it

Considering some of the real stinkers of antags we have it's sad to see this one perish and others not, rest in peace.

Timonk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:02 am

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:24 am

Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:18 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 9:46 pm A mode like this is never going to work properly on a server like /tg/. An HRP one, maybe, but not here.

See, I never understood this take. Families seems tailor-made for an LRP/NRP codebase.

Well when you use the antagonist system and then add a clause that says "you're not actually an antag use normal escalation like a normal crewmember" it throws the whole game design and rules for a loop

screw thieves for this too with no tools to circumvent our current scenarios too. (I should be able to escape easily if what Im going to do is going to get me into a kill or be killed situation, and I cannot kill)

I think escalation is more lax on thieves

I once stole non life threatening Organs of multiple people ans got away with it

Yeah that's your objective. Just don't attack people back when they rightfully try to kill you for doing so. Your the aggressor/griefer and will be bwoinked and banned if you end inadvertently piling up bodies.

An antag prone to conflict incapable of causing any

Families always did feel like a square peg trying to fit into a round hole. I don't know if it could have ever really worked since it started from the assumption that people were here for RP first and foremost which just simply isn't true for TG. Even on Manuel seeing anyone try to like actually do gang things was exceptionally rare and everyone just played it like revs-lite were instead of running up to people and flashing them they'd run up and beg you to join their gang.

It was definitely an interesting experiment for sure though.

and yet somehow tram is still in rotation

:/

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:20 am and yet somehow tram is still in rotation

:/

Tram-Hater

Families didn't fail because people didn't want to RP. If anything, Families failed in part because the mode was anti-RP. Being thrown into a randomly-chosen gang put you in a box that just wasn't fun to be in. You can only demand taxes from people as the IRS or scream "tunnel snakes rule" so many times before it gets bland and stale. I disabled Families after playing several rounds because I simply got tired of being given a dumb costume and being directed to greytide.

Of course, this didn't need to be the death of Families. Revs (a successful gamemode) mirrors Families RP-wise in that it's basically an RP-lite greytide antag where you're forced to play a specific character archetype with little room for creative variation. However unlike Families, Revs works because:

1 - With Revs, the overarching objective (killing the heads of staff) is the same across all rounds. This makes it easy to coordinate with other Revs without the need for clunky radios because everyone knows the game. This helps multiple players work together in pursuit of the same goal, while also helping other players work as a team to resist them. Social interaction!
2 - The Revs faction can grow to dominate the whole station because of involuntary conversion. This gives other factions (i.e. Nanotrasen-aligned crew) a reason to fear them and take them seriously instead of ignoring them altogether.
2.5 - The feeling of becoming unstoppable force taking over the station is essential to the conversion antag experience (cult, revs, even xenos to an extent). A Family cannot take over the station in normal circumstances, as most people don't want to join a Family and involuntary conversion is not permitted.
3 - Revs don't greytide for the sake of being a bully and picking pointless fights. Rather, Rev conflict arises out of the pursuit of a clear objective. Because of this, you don't feel like a huge dick for griefing someone like you do in Families, encouraging inter-player conflict and good sportsmanship.

Could Families have been fixed? Maybe. But in my opinion, voluntary-only conversion would have to be axed and Families would need to be given consistent objectives (i.e. kill all other families). Pretty sure I made these same suggestions ages ago but it fell upon deaf ears, and it looks like Families gone and it ain't coming back in the foreseeable future.

I can sort of see what you mean. I wasn't around when the mode was active, but it doesn't really seem to be about anything? Even Nations has more obvious direction.

BRING

BACK

FUCKING

GANGS

Yeah I liked buying guns that shit was cool