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I just can't get over this "Your decision warrants further scrutiny"Muffindrake wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:14 pmShould I use code like 'I strongly disagree with your admin decision' or 'Your decision warrants further scrutiny' next time I have a problem with an admin?
MOONLIGHTING IS NOT OKEdit 2: I would like to assert that the AI has absolutely no say in what the atmospheric composition in Atmospherics proper is. We can literally do whatever the fuck we want in there, including flooding it with plasma, n2o, and spacing it completely, and we're not supposed to be messed with by the AI for it since it's not going to affect crew that isn't even supposed to be there.
The secret is to not take it as a threat. 99% of the time there's nothing actionable, so call their bluff. They threaten you with an admin complaint, you respond with a link to the complaints board and instructions on how to fill it out. It's also great for shutting down arguments because you can just say "my decision is final, here's where you can go if you think it was wrong of me".
+1NoxVS wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:23 am -snip-
The secret is to not take it as a threat. 99% of the time there's nothing actionable, so call their bluff. They threaten you with an admin complaint, you respond with a link to the complaints board and instructions on how to fill it out. It's also great for shutting down arguments because you can just say "my decision is final, here's where you can go if you think it was wrong of me".
Please do not encourage AI access sabotage for no reason. Cutting cams or ai access wires without a VERY GOOD REASON (ai keeps fucking with you/it's CONFIRMED subverted or malf). Just cutting cables because you don't want the ai interaction with your workplace preemptively is against the rules. This does not apply to a antags.mindstormy wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 11:04 pm If you do not want an AI to try and help a situation just cut the cams and wires. Also I'm pretty sure most AI's only know about the contaminated and siphon buttons on air alarms.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32211Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:30 pm >told not to ahelp about their tritium setup being flushed down the drain and instead disable ai access to scrubbers
>Told not to do that until ai drains their tritium setup down the drain or causes lethal havoc
Atmos was a mistake even for the 5 people out of hundreds who know how to do it
This is pure gold, I mean salt.Muffindrake wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:22 pmviewtopic.php?f=7&t=32211Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 4:30 pm >told not to ahelp about their tritium setup being flushed down the drain and instead disable ai access to scrubbers
>Told not to do that until ai drains their tritium setup down the drain or causes lethal havoc
Atmos was a mistake even for the 5 people out of hundreds who know how to do it
This but unironically.
Have you considered talking to the AIMuffindrake wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:00 pmWe have problem then, because the atmos grief happens even without any antagonist being involved. I could repeat what I said about past rounds with people overriding air alarm settings just because, but I'm not going to. We have no recourse, we can only use the 'suicide verb' and go to the 60 minute waiting room for the next round, because atmos setups are nuanced and are broken so badly by bad settings that you might as well do that. I've had it happen too many times, and nothing visible has ever been done against that.Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:28 pm https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules
What FatalX1 tried to communicate to you is that if the AI is doing something to actively interfere with you and they don't stop when asked, it is reasonable and proportionate to cut cameras and AI wires so you can continue in peace. But you can't pre-emptively cut cams and wires just because you have an entire tree lodged up your ass about people interfering with your pet projects.Rule 2 Precedents
4. Atmos techs are not allowed to edit atmos at roundstart so that the AI cannot use it for malicious purposes. While this might not make sense IC, it's a necessary OOC precedent for some game mechanics to work. Atmos techs are allowed if they have any reasonable suspicion of the AI being rogue.
What Nameless is trying to communicate to you is that if the admin team feels you're cutting wires and cameras for no reason, or for a reason so poor that it's basically the same as no reason, they'll may step in.
Your behaviour is virtually indistinguishable from cutting wires and cameras "just in case the AI is malf/subverted". For gameplay and game mechanic reasons, this is generally prohibited.
Also, what the fuck do you mean 'pet projects'? I am providing clothes spaceproofing for the entire crew, upgrading medbay healing with Healium, and providing Cleansing crystals to them. Even a singular disruption in the form of an ignorant AI player doing aforementioned is enough to ensure nothing of the sort gets to the crew, that would require you to play the game to notice, though.
Further edit: The rules do not say that we can't edit atmos at all, and they do not state every possible malicious purpose must be left open. Since I never edit atmos pipes in a manner that prevents station gas floods, which is the main purpose of atmos for malf AI anyway, I ask you kindly to remove the note then, since I've not broken rules here.
Funny you should ask. I talked to the AI in the same round. I was trying really hard to lead them through looking at the air alarm and telling me why it would be a bad idea to just hit DECON there. However, they went the boneheaded route of 'can't be arsed lol' and completely ignored me. So you can't tell me I didn't try.Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:19 pmHave you considered talking to the AIMuffindrake wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 9:00 pmWe have problem then, because the atmos grief happens even without any antagonist being involved. I could repeat what I said about past rounds with people overriding air alarm settings just because, but I'm not going to. We have no recourse, we can only use the 'suicide verb' and go to the 60 minute waiting room for the next round, because atmos setups are nuanced and are broken so badly by bad settings that you might as well do that. I've had it happen too many times, and nothing visible has ever been done against that.Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:28 pm https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules
What FatalX1 tried to communicate to you is that if the AI is doing something to actively interfere with you and they don't stop when asked, it is reasonable and proportionate to cut cameras and AI wires so you can continue in peace. But you can't pre-emptively cut cams and wires just because you have an entire tree lodged up your ass about people interfering with your pet projects.Rule 2 Precedents
4. Atmos techs are not allowed to edit atmos at roundstart so that the AI cannot use it for malicious purposes. While this might not make sense IC, it's a necessary OOC precedent for some game mechanics to work. Atmos techs are allowed if they have any reasonable suspicion of the AI being rogue.
What Nameless is trying to communicate to you is that if the admin team feels you're cutting wires and cameras for no reason, or for a reason so poor that it's basically the same as no reason, they'll may step in.
Your behaviour is virtually indistinguishable from cutting wires and cameras "just in case the AI is malf/subverted". For gameplay and game mechanic reasons, this is generally prohibited.
Also, what the fuck do you mean 'pet projects'? I am providing clothes spaceproofing for the entire crew, upgrading medbay healing with Healium, and providing Cleansing crystals to them. Even a singular disruption in the form of an ignorant AI player doing aforementioned is enough to ensure nothing of the sort gets to the crew, that would require you to play the game to notice, though.
Further edit: The rules do not say that we can't edit atmos at all, and they do not state every possible malicious purpose must be left open. Since I never edit atmos pipes in a manner that prevents station gas floods, which is the main purpose of atmos for malf AI anyway, I ask you kindly to remove the note then, since I've not broken rules here.
While some players don't use this mechanic much, if you put :e or ; at the beginning of a "say," you can use your headset to communicate with the AI on a departmental or common radio to explain your project to them instead of just yelling DEAN BAD when someone shows up to kill you
You shouldn't mistake sardonic tone towards players that deserve nothing better as a deficit. I've been arguing with admins about this for too long.
I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.
That's not building an understanding, that's just you asking if you can remove their ability to intervene. Have you made an attempt to sit down an A.I and explain what your setup will look like and how they can intervene should things go wrong? What attempts do you make to CO-OPERATE with the A.I whom you share a department withMuffindrake wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:21 pmI did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.
Your repeated attempts at theorizing more interesting ingame interactions do not work with this community, I'm afraid.
Just don't play a lizard lmaoMuffindrake wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:21 pm I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.
You somehow forgot to mention that the first thing I told you was that I could not see how cutting that wire would prevent accidents. You IMMEDIATELY resorted to threats (Which you also forgot, huffed too much BZ maybe?). I only told you to fuck off after that.Muffindrake wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:21 pmI did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.
Your repeated attempts at theorizing more interesting ingame interactions do not work with this community, I'm afraid.
https://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 4/game.txtDeirun wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:50 amYou somehow forgot to mention that the first thing I told you was that I could not see how cutting that wire would prevent accidents. You IMMEDIATELY resorted to threats (Which you also forgot, huffed too much BZ maybe?). I only told you to fuck off after that.Muffindrake wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:21 pm I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.
Your repeated attempts at theorizing more interesting ingame interactions do not work with this community, I'm afraid.
Code: Select all
05:25:37 SAY Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "AI, may I cut AI access to the air alarm in Atmospherics to prevent accidents?" (61, 143, 2) Greater Port Maintenance
05:26:04 SAY Deirun/(Golem) "I have no idea who me having access to that air alarm would cause accidents." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
05:26:19 SAY Deirun/(Golem) "How, even." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
05:27:25 SAY Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "On the off-chance that you do cause an accident, do I have your permission to throw you at the supermatter or blow up your satellite?" (77, 114, 2) Port Maintenance
05:28:15 SAY Deirun/(Golem) "No you have not. I would be very careful with making threats, cosindering that you are not a human." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber
05:29:35 SAY Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "Then for your own sake, do not touch the Atmospherics air alarm" (169, 117, 2) AtmosphericsYou missed my last reply to them:Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:53 pmhttps://tgstation13.org/parsed-logs/ter ... 4/game.txtDeirun wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:50 amYou somehow forgot to mention that the first thing I told you was that I could not see how cutting that wire would prevent accidents. You IMMEDIATELY resorted to threats (Which you also forgot, huffed too much BZ maybe?). I only told you to fuck off after that.Muffindrake wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:21 pm I did exactly this earlier today. I asked the AI (Golem) whether I could cut the AI wire to prevent accidents in Atmospherics. They pretty much told me to 'fuck off Lizard' and 'I do whatever I want'.
Your repeated attempts at theorizing more interesting ingame interactions do not work with this community, I'm afraid.
Did the conversation go something like this?:Code: Select all
05:25:37 SAY Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "AI, may I cut AI access to the air alarm in Atmospherics to prevent accidents?" (61, 143, 2) Greater Port Maintenance 05:26:04 SAY Deirun/(Golem) "I have no idea who me having access to that air alarm would cause accidents." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber 05:26:19 SAY Deirun/(Golem) "How, even." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber 05:27:25 SAY Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "On the off-chance that you do cause an accident, do I have your permission to throw you at the supermatter or blow up your satellite?" (77, 114, 2) Port Maintenance 05:28:15 SAY Deirun/(Golem) "No you have not. I would be very careful with making threats, cosindering that you are not a human." (214, 144, 2) AI Chamber 05:29:35 SAY Muffindrake/(Baal-Fur) "Then for your own sake, do not touch the Atmospherics air alarm" (169, 117, 2) Atmospherics
Code: Select all
[2022-08-06 17:29:51.278] SAY: Deirun/(Golem) "I will touch it as much as I want to, lizard." (AI Chamber (214,144,2))If they had done that, I would have had absolutely no problem with cooperating. I follow most requests non-humans make, as long as they ask nicely.Lacran wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:02 pm How can you be this autistic. You just have to establish a basic fucking rapport with the A.I like you would for any other co-worker in atmos, it's not rocket science.
Be polite and wait until they are free to explain the gist of the setup, how it will help the crew and how they can interfere in a way that doesn't fuck you over if things go wrong. It's what you do whenever you share any workplace with someone.
That is galaxy brain.
was added since then so no conspiracy dipshittery for me. Sssad!]
That's what I'm saying. As soon as a non-human atmos tech is leaking tritium, the silicons can take care of it any which way they see fit and the most the non-human should feel is lucky that the tritium didn't hurt anyone which would move this from "oh great, cleaning up after this guy" into "oh great, turning this guy into red paste"dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:42 pm Lizards deserve to be told to fuck off by the AI. The AI is literally bigoted.
Archie700 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 1:26 amMOONLIGHTING IS NOT OKEdit 2: I would like to assert that the AI has absolutely no say in what the atmospheric composition in Atmospherics proper is. We can literally do whatever the fuck we want in there, including flooding it with plasma, n2o, and spacing it completely, and we're not supposed to be messed with by the AI for it since it's not going to affect crew that isn't even supposed to be there.
