Crag gaming

[Archie700]

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=32441

Crag having his annual gamer moment

[Itseasytosee2me]

He might need this one: https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Guide_to_avoiding_bans

[toemas]

retarded ban!

[Super Aggro Crag]

shoulda vaxxmaxxed as a kid so i could have the sonichu pass to act like a horrible obnoxious shitkid in ss13 and NOT get in trouble for it

[CMDR_Gungnir]

Retard should absolutely not be hit by Rule 11 and any jannie that thinks it should, should probably reconsider.

[iwishforducks]

this should just be a rule 1 ban, rule 11 doesnt cover something like this

[Riggle]

This is definitely a rule 1 ban. I know how much it can suck when you get griefed in game, especially when your ahelp doesn't get handled (nobody likes dealing with revs tickets), only to get bwoinked when you retaliate. No matter how much it sucked it doesn't give you a pass to be an asshole to someone unrelated. I also get how ahelps can get heated but come on, the forum posts weren't warranted.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Not Being a Dick: cussing someone out and trying to murder them in game for standing in medbay, Ic in OOCING, burning someones gear and stealing their id, screaming a pejorative term for women constantly, trying to kill your fellow revs

BEING A DICK UNFORGIVABLE HELL SIN: "calm down sperg"

Rule 1 is just as fucking useless as rule 11 at this point

[iwishforducks]

Not Being a Dick: cussing someone out and trying to murder them in game for standing in medbay, Ic in OOCING, burning someones gear and stealing their id, screaming a pejorative term for women constantly, trying to kill your fellow revs

BEING A DICK UNFORGIVABLE HELL SIN: "calm down sperg"

Rule 1 is just as fucking useless as rule 11 at this point

from what i can gather the ban was moreso placed due to the way you acted in ahelps and less of “you said these words”

we cannot ban people for using retard under rule 11 but we can ban people under rule 1 for not cooling it when we ask you to knock it off

literally just appeal without resorting to being a dick about it and apologize for being a dick. you’re completely justified in thinking that the person in-game (and in ooc) was being a dick

[Super Aggro Crag]

I am not going to apologize to the shitmin who goes out of their way every round to harass me and then gets the headmin to put me on post approval so i cant post appeals, feedback, or complaints.

[Kendrickorium]

San, please rename this thread title to Big Boy King Bigdick Peanut, thank you

[iwishforducks]

I am not going to apologize to the shitmin who goes out of their way every round to harass me and then gets the headmin to put me on post approval so i cant post appeals, feedback, or complaints.

you dont have to apologize but it certainly would be the path of least resistance to try to make amends. either way im sure there is a way to be clever in your wording to find some kind of understanding. i do need to stress that post approval means nothing- you can still make a new appeal- it just means that every admin gets a notification when you post. it’s kind of antithetical but i digress

[Super Aggro Crag]

I am not going to apologize to the shitmin who goes out of their way every round to harass me and then gets the headmin to put me on post approval so i cant post appeals, feedback, or complaints.

you dont have to apologize but it certainly would be the path of least resistance to try to make amends. either way im sure there is a way to be clever in your wording to find some kind of understanding. i do need to stress that post approval means nothing- you can still make a new appeal- it just means that every admin gets a notification when you post. it’s kind of antithetical but i digress

they get a notification and either ignore it leaving it in limbo or just deny it.

[nianjiilical]

theres ultimately a point where if you're crude enough to admin they arent really under an obligation to try to respond to that level of hostility, i think

[BONERMASTER]

"Calling someone a sperg is not ok." is the most pussy shit I have heard in a long time.
You're getting genuinely griefed and then also eat a ban because you threw a slur at them, how are you not supposed to lose your mind here? And since when did we have the stick so far up the ass, that we can't even call people a mental illness that they are exhibiting? It's still an online murder simulator game and not college campus, RIGHT?


With uptight regards
-BONERMASTER

[Timberpoes]

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31344

Unfortunately this term voted to expand rule 11 to cover disability-based bigotry.

Retard doesn't fall under this, but schizo does. Does sperg fall under it when targetted against someone else?

I can't say for sure. I disagreed with that policy change because I knew we'd end up here at some point.

But it probably does fall under it when targeted against someone and intended as some sort of insult.

It's just a shame the appeal was such a crock of shit and Crag refused to remake it in a less shitheel way.

I have no intent of discussing this with Ayame and the other headmin/elects while Crag is showcasing that the rule may well have been applied against an individual whom possibly warranted it.

I don't want to see a bootlicking appeal, this is the first time the disability addendum to rule 11 is being tested in an appeal.

What do I want to see is an appeal without a pair of shoelaces hanging out of the appellant's mouth and bite marks on the leather.

[Rohen_Tahir]

"Calling someone a sperg is not ok." is the most pussy shit I have heard in a long time.
You're getting genuinely griefed and then also eat a ban because you threw a slur at them, how are you not supposed to lose your mind here? And since when did we have the stick so far up the ass, that we can't even call people a mental illness that they are exhibiting? It's still an online murder simulator game and not college campus, RIGHT?


With uptight regards
-BONERMASTER

wrath is a sin brother

[sinfulbliss]

If you don't want players saying certain words, add the words to the soft filter.

If "retard," "autistic," and "sperg" are slurs that justifies a talking to from an admin, a 6-month IC chat history search for candidates, a note, or any admin intervention at all, then why in the world aren't they in the filter? You don't need the list to be exhaustive to have a list. Only possible reason I can think of is that the headmins didn't like the optics of TG having an ever-growing list of no-no words.

Also the absolute gall of the chemist to freak out on OOC over being called a sperg after they 1. yelled “FUCK OFF FUCK OFF CUNT FUCK OFF” to a player politely asking for lye, and 2. blatantly broke the rules by attacking them as a team antagonist, makes this whole thing just nasty.

from what i can gather the ban was moreso placed due to the way you acted in ahelps and less of “you said these words”

The ban reason doesn’t anywhere mention their actions in ahelp, it specifically cites rule 11 and their IC actions.

[Super Aggro Crag]

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31344

Unfortunately this term voted to expand rule 11 to cover disability-based bigotry.

Retard doesn't fall under this, but schizo does. Does sperg fall under it when targetted against someone else?

I can't say for sure. I disagreed with that policy change because I knew we'd end up here at some point.

But it probably does fall under it when targeted against someone and intended as some sort of insult.

It's just a shame the appeal was such a crock of shit and Crag refused to remake it in a less shitheel way.

I have no intent of discussing this with Ayame and the other headmin/elects while Crag is showcasing that the rule may well have been applied against an individual whom possibly warranted it.

I don't want to see a bootlicking appeal, this is the first time the disability addendum to rule 11 is being tested in an appeal.

What do I want to see is an appeal without a pair of shoelaces hanging out of the appellant's mouth and bite marks on the leather.

I'm not going to make an appeal that doesn't call ayamepup a fucking idiot for doing a horrible fucking job of being an admin. I'm not a fucking volunteer Appeal Writer. My job isn't to fucking test out your policies by getting shit on by your incompetent fuckwit trialmins so you can sit in your fucking study with the rest of the admins puffing on pipes and use my ban to forward "the discourse." It was a shit ban by a shit admin using a shit interpretation of a shitty rule that was shittily expanded and since this seems to be the fucking path this server wants to continue going down then fucking enjoy it bud. Have the fucking stones to admit it was a stupid fucking decision or enjoy becoming a fucking babysitter for a bunch of 12 year old autists whose computers can't run garrys mod DarkRP so they come here to sperg out.

[Timberpoes]

Yikes.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31344

Unfortunately this term voted to expand rule 11 to cover disability-based bigotry.

Retard doesn't fall under this, but schizo does. Does sperg fall under it when targetted against someone else?

I can't say for sure. I disagreed with that policy change because I knew we'd end up here at some point.

But it probably does fall under it when targeted against someone and intended as some sort of insult.

It's just a shame the appeal was such a crock of shit and Crag refused to remake it in a less shitheel way.

I have no intent of discussing this with Ayame and the other headmin/elects while Crag is showcasing that the rule may well have been applied against an individual whom possibly warranted it.

I don't want to see a bootlicking appeal, this is the first time the disability addendum to rule 11 is being tested in an appeal.

What do I want to see is an appeal without a pair of shoelaces hanging out of the appellant's mouth and bite marks on the leather.

I'm not going to make an appeal that doesn't call ayamepup a fucking idiot for doing a horrible fucking job of being an admin. I'm not a fucking volunteer Appeal Writer. My job isn't to fucking test out your policies by getting shit on by your incompetent fuckwit trialmins so you can sit in your fucking study with the rest of the admins puffing on pipes and use my ban to forward "the discourse." It was a shit ban by a shit admin using a shit interpretation of a shitty rule that was shittily expanded and since this seems to be the fucking path this server wants to continue going down then fucking enjoy it bud. Have the fucking stones to admit it was a stupid fucking decision or enjoy becoming a fucking babysitter for a bunch of 12 year old autists whose computers can't run garrys mod DarkRP so they come here to sperg out.

dude i get that you're mad as hell and seeing red but when people are being idiots and wronging you over snapping, you should shut the hell up and go somewhere else to cool off instead of exploding like a nuclear reactor.

So you got griefed and successfully banbaited by a fake-cryer because the admin on was one who thinks you're a toolbag? It happens. Shouting about it won't help though so go play minecraft or something until tomorrow.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Yikes.

[sinfulbliss]

I'm not going to make an appeal that doesn't call ayamepup a fucking idiot for doing a horrible fucking job of being an admin. I'm not a fucking volunteer Appeal Writer. My job isn't to fucking test out your policies by getting shit on by your incompetent fuckwit trialmins so you can sit in your fucking study with the rest of the admins puffing on pipes and use my ban to forward "the discourse." It was a shit ban by a shit admin using a shit interpretation of a shitty rule that was shittily expanded and since this seems to be the fucking path this server wants to continue going down then fucking enjoy it bud. Have the fucking stones to admit it was a stupid fucking decision or enjoy becoming a fucking babysitter for a bunch of 12 year old autists whose computers can't run garrys mod DarkRP so they come here to sperg out.

Your anger's completely misdirected here. It's like you're more mad at Timber than the admin that banned you in the first place.

You had a really solid chance of this being ruled in your favor but instead of writing a calm, rational defense you just took it as an opportunity to dab on the admin and chemist. It's funny and all but how did you expect this to go? Like assume the thread wasn't locked and the admin responds. You know they can't shit on you back right? They're held to a standard. So they have to just bend over and take it while trying to sort through whatever scraps of coherent argument can be pieced together in the shitstorm calling them a loser cunt trailertrash metagrudger.

Yeah that was never going to happen and I don't think you thought it was either, you took it as an opportunity to vent and your goal wasn't for it to be serious in the first place. Now you can make a new one and probably win later because Timber locked it instead of letting the headmins instantly reject your appeal for being inflammatory. You should be thanking him if anything.

Also your understanding of what "FNR approval" is is deranged. If you make a calm, calculated appeal defending yourself and explaining how the admin was in error, it will be accepted and go through? I think you know this too but are just butthurt you can't make le epig roastz in the next one.

tl;dr: doesn't matter if you're right or not you need to follow the basic rules of human discourse and grow up

[Super Aggro Crag]

I did make another appeal and it's sitting in limbo because they refuse to approve it, dumb guy. I even had a third party go over and make sure it didn't have naughty words in it.

[Kendrickorium]

this thread pleases me

[Nabski]

Alright you've chilled a little that's good now lets see what happens.

[Boot]

Players should not be expected to bite their tongue towards admins who fuck up, even in minor ways. They are allowed to express their frustration, and all of our admins are capable of handling it.

The only thing that makes Crag different is that he puts some energy into it. If the ban appeal fit the template then he should've been fine. At the end of the day he's gonna get crucified on the alter of rule 11, a rule that was put into place because some "well meaning" members of the staff team didn't want to see nigger anymore. Well don't worry bud, as an aspie I didn't break out the bleach the moment I saw the mean word.

MSO is this what you imagined when you decided to let the busybodies have a win? You can't even call the 2d atmos spessman sim built on 20 year old busted up engine autistic anymore.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I haven't chilled, I had help writing that. I'm still really pissed off.

[datorangebottle]

I'd be interested in seeing the logs.
From what i've seen on the forums, Crag's username is extremely accurate. It's likely this would've just been a slap on the wrist warning for saying one word specifically aimed at a disability.

2. As rule 11 is not a word ban, "autism"/"autistic" are not banned, or even placed under any filter yet. "Autism fort" is fine, calling people autistic as a means to demean them is not. For example, we want to highlight that calling someone an "autistic retard" will almost certainly be considered a discriminatory act. Context is key.

Due to the heated situation and context, though, it's easy to assume that he went 'super aggro' on Ayamepup, who doesn't have to put up with that shit and can kick you out of the game for as long as they think it'll take you to cool off.
Not saying I'm on Ayame's side though. The lack of admin response on teamfighting, even just to put in a "I'm looking into this." is baffling, and making sure that the blatant ICKOCKing griefer's feefees are okay isn't as important as making sure the rules that they're accused of breaking are enforced; the supposed bigotry could've been handled afterwards.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I am pushing for headmin review.

[datorangebottle]

Good luck. I don't think you're going to find much sympathy from the headmin term that expanded the rule you were banned under, especially after alienating the one headmin that voted against expanding rule 11 by going off on them in this very thread.

[Pandarsenic]

I can't believe we'd see this from the guy who brought us SAY: Super Aggro Crag/(Avudim Gopniki) "Do not come to my bar, we do not serve AIDS cum." (The Grey Tide (145,165,2))

[Boot]

Well I think that'd be a pretty odd thing to serve at a bar.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Good luck. I don't think you're going to find much sympathy from the headmin term that expanded the rule you were banned under, especially after alienating the one headmin that voted against expanding rule 11 by going off on them in this very thread.

thanks

[BONERMASTER]

I swear, those admins with the kitty avatar and cutsy signatures are a different breed entirely.


With disgusted regards
-BIGOTMASTER

[Super Aggro Crag]

Pandarsenic taking me cussing someone out out of context again, given thats the round some fucking dip shit spawned in, immediately grabbed my monkey amd murdered it for no reason and decorated the bar with its dismbered body while sending me threatening pda messages. The medium rp server, guys! Just murder someones pet for no reason and ahelp if they get mad! Youre in character!

[nianjiilical]

i think the fundamental misunderstanding here is that the issue isnt getting mad at people and verbally shitting on them but using specifically awful words to do it

[Super Aggro Crag]

Sorry, i'll let my vocabulary decay to absolutely baby babble word salad redditor gushing about how everyone who inconveniences me is a damn CHUDS and ONTOLOGICALLY EVIL REPUBLICAN TRANS EXCLUSIONARY RADICAL FEMINIST JK ROWLING CAUCASIAN COLONIST so as to not offend The Chosen Few given license to act like slobbering dogcunts because their doctor diagnosed them with fuckfaceitis

[nianjiilical]

see you at least got through that one without actual slurs

just try to be more creative

[Super Aggro Crag]

Damn terf isnt a slur? I could have sworn all those AMABs saying they hope TERFs get correctively raped by the girl dick would fill it with enough vitriol and hatred would make it count. Or maybe you just hate women.

[toemas]

i think the fundamental misunderstanding here is that the issue isnt getting mad at people and verbally shitting on them but using specifically awful words to do it

spineless

[Jaukkuri]

The greatest appeal I've ever read. Unban this guy.

[Boot]

Really telling how "colonialist" isn't viewed as a slur even tho its only used against white people but seeing how this community doesn't view cracker as a slur either I shouldn't be that surprised.

[toemas]

Really telling how "colonialist" isn't viewed as a slur even tho its only used against white people but seeing how this community doesn't view cracker as a slur either I shouldn't be that surprised.

I support and respect you

[Misdoubtful]

ONTOLOGICALLY EVIL REPUBLICAN TRANS EXCLUSIONARY RADICAL FEMINIST JK ROWLING CAUCASIAN COLONIST

I'd be lying if I said I didn't almost spit out my drink and start choking when I read this.

[Timberpoes]

What is wrong with you, Crag?

You are currently presenting as one of the more vile and dickish members of this community.

Maybe old school tgstation would have tolerated you calling someone a faggot in a wee babyrage. Ever since vanilla Rule 11 came in, that has been much less acceptable. And Rule 11 has been around long enough that this should not be a surprise to you.

And the rest of your drivel from the logs posted in the appeal is a problem. And not simply because we expanded Rule 11.

The goal of dragging Rule 11 towards protecting disabilities was not to stop people talking about autism forts or autism projects. Not to stop people saying things are retarded or whatever. Which, let's be real, would have been pretty fucking retarded. Not that a future term can't come along and fuck it all up. Instead, it was meant to give an additional category to stop directly targetted slurs against community members. To empower admins to step in when precisely the usage of language you showcased happens.

Despite that, I think you picked precisely the wrong hill to die on. Not because we've got this new PC addition to a rule where you can't express yourself like a bigot. Instead, because your use of faggot targetted towards someone as an insult would have attracted attention pre-Rule 11 extension. Also, because you may have also attracted Rule 1 attention in the pre-Rule 11 days for your little gamer moment in its entirety.

So, can you please cut this shit out?

We do take accusations of admin bias seriously, because admins aren't perfect.

Your accusations of bias, while complaining that you effectively can no longer express yourself to the level of bigotry you feel is appropriate, triggered a few admins to go investigating to find out what the hell was up.

And what has been found so far has had two different admins asking if the headmins couldn't just place a permaban and be rid of you, for two different reasons and incidents from what I can gather.

When one person breaks the rules in response to their belief someone else broke the rules, it doesn't cancel out. It double definitely doesn't give anyone a right to break the rules even harder in response.

All that leaves is an admin that now has to deal with two rule breakers instead of one. Other players especially do not need to put up with your bullshit.

[Super Aggro Crag]

What is wrong with you, Crag?

You are currently presenting as one of the more vile and dickish members of this community.

Maybe old school tgstation would have tolerated you calling someone a faggot in a wee babyrage. Ever since vanilla Rule 11 came in, that has been much less acceptable. And Rule 11 has been around long enough that this should not be a surprise to you.

And the rest of your drivel from the logs posted in the appeal is a problem. And not simply because we expanded Rule 11.

The goal of dragging Rule 11 towards protecting disabilities was not to stop people talking about autism forts or autism projects. Not to stop people saying things are retarded or whatever. Which, let's be real, would have been pretty fucking retarded. Not that a future term can't come along and fuck it all up. Instead, it was meant to give an additional category to stop directly targetted slurs against community members. To empower admins to step in when precisely the usage of language you showcased happens.

Despite that, I think you picked precisely the wrong hill to die on. Not because we've got this new PC addition to a rule where you can't express yourself like a bigot. Instead, because your use of faggot targetted towards someone as an insult would have attracted attention pre-Rule 11 extension. Also, because you may have also attracted Rule 1 attention in the pre-Rule 11 days for your little gamer moment in its entirety.

So, can you please cut this shit out?

We do take accusations of admin bias seriously, because admins aren't perfect.

Your accusations of bias, while complaining that you effectively can no longer express yourself to the level of bigotry you feel is appropriate, triggered a few admins to go investigating to find out what the hell was up.

And what has been found so far has had two different admins asking if the headmins couldn't just place a permaban and be rid of you, for two different reasons and incidents from what I can gather.

When one person breaks the rules in response to their belief someone else broke the rules, it doesn't cancel out. It double definitely doesn't give anyone a right to break the rules even harder in response.

All that leaves is an admin that now has to deal with two rule breakers instead of one. Other players especially do not need to put up with your bullshit.

Okay, so that's that then. You're just going to constantly dig for an excuse to permaban me because I get frustrated and vocalize my anger against administrative incompetence. Cool, got it. So even if my appeal is denied and my ban comes up, if I ever happen to play when one of your fucking cronies is on I might as well just disconnect because they're going to spend the entire round trying to find a way to get me in trouble, and considering how much of the server culture is now apparently based around openly banbaiting me by acting like a relentless fuckwit, it won't be long until I react, because whenever I fucking report someone for harassing me in game I get told "its handled". Oh great, it's fucking handled, after my workplace was destroyed, or my gear was stolen, or that I just spent 25 fucking minutes wrestling with a greased up chimpanzee spouting absolute goonspew. All I want to do is wander around a floating metal death trap playing guitar and cleaning up messes and telling stories but every god damn round I have to deal with a fucking piss-streaked merkin desperate to escalate everything into a m1 horizontal clickwar because HE HE...FUNNEE and the admins don't do anything. If I fight back, I'm told it's valid escalation. If I don't fight back, die, and ahelp, they say it's "handled" and my dead fucking body lies in maintenance with my organs rotting for the next 40 minutes. Maybe the game is bad. And it's not because people can't say gamer words any more.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

The goal of dragging Rule 11 towards protecting disabilities was not to stop people talking about autism forts or autism projects. Not to stop people saying things are retarded or whatever. Which, let's be real, would have been pretty fucking retarded. Not that a future term can't come along and fuck it all up. Instead, it was meant to give an additional category to stop directly targetted slurs against community members. To empower admins to step in when precisely the usage of language you showcased happens.

I think my problem with this, though, is that it's horrifically disrespectful.

People are actually beaten, or killed, or tortured or whatever, because they're black, or they're gay, or they're trans. These are real things that really happen.

People aren't for having Aspergers, or Autism, or similar things. Harassed, maybe, but even then people will usually go "yo dude what the fuck that's not cool".

To say that they're on the same level, is massively disrespectful. I was on Crag's side until he dropped the F (even though I think it was just a frustrated "This is considered a Particularly Bad insult, so call 'em it" thing personally, still should've been done), and the fact that he apparently heard they WERE aspergers and doubled down on it is something I can't condone.

But the former wasn't even brought up in the Rule 11 for his note, and the latter, which is what the expansion was meant to be added for, can easily be covered under rule 1. Having the note as it is, and that expansion like that, leads too easily into it being that blanket. The note doesn't mention rule 1 at all, and the Rule 11 focuses just on the words having ever been said at all, which sets a bad precedent of them being flatly unacceptable as the colloquial insults they're usually meant as.

[Pandarsenic]

People aren't for having Aspergers, or Autism, or similar things. Harassed, maybe, but even then people will usually go "yo dude what the fuck that's not cool".

Unfortunately, this is not precisely correct.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ha ... rt-n538371
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/07/22/mex ... uthorities
https://nwlc.org/resource/forced-steril ... ed-states/

[CMDR_Gungnir]

People aren't for having Aspergers, or Autism, or similar things. Harassed, maybe, but even then people will usually go "yo dude what the fuck that's not cool".

Unfortunately, this is not precisely correct.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ha ... rt-n538371
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/07/22/mex ... uthorities
https://nwlc.org/resource/forced-steril ... ed-states/

I'd argue that the first one is more just a "People failed" than "targetted for it", but I'll give you the other two (had no idea about the last one, that is unbelievably fucked up and America needs to fix that shit, holy shit).

I'm still gonna stand by my point overall, but I will definitely concede that part.