Dreary Peanut Thread (NAME POLICY EDITION)

[iwishforducks]

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32542

Dreary Doom = BREAKS NAME POLICY
Dendy Doom = Okay

this just seems like bullying, really

[datorangebottle]

I Policy via appeal. Truly the best way to see an appeal take a month to resolve most based timeline. I've asked the headmins to review my decision here, as a result.

I can't believe Timberpoes is resorting to filibusters in the year of our lord 2022! Truly a tragic sign of the times, shaking my smh.

[Super Aggro Crag]

we have characters with names that are weirder

[iamgoofball]

this is fucking stupid

[BONERMASTER]

Any argument that uses our quality of RP as a justification, is invalid. Manuel's RP is not on a level where character names are starting to impact the player experience. I completely disagree with Timber's decision to reprimand them for their naming choice.

Frankly, if anything, you could make an argument that the number of zany and outlandish additions to the game, be it as items, entities or anything else, is hurting it's RP more than any name could. But I don't see coders getting banned for shitting up our already weak setting, so people making a genuine minimal effort to make a (cool) name shouldn't be either.


With named regards
-BONERMASTER

[Itseasytosee2me]

Okay but only if you ban Brick Mortar, Gay Johnson and Ricky Morty.

[Scriptis]

dude, a lot of admins have names way dumber than this

mine included

[Pandarsenic]

I categorically reject any naming scheme that forbids Brick Mortar, Mary Megablade, etc.

[TheFinalPotato]

dude, a lot of admins have names way dumber than this

mine included

So long as armhulen remains unbanned, no naming policy can stand justified

[cybersaber101]

Free dreary

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I dont really like "Justify why your name fits the policy" as a position to hold on naming policy

otherwise I dont really have strong opinions either way.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I categorically reject any naming scheme that forbids Brick Mortar, Mary Megablade, etc.

It's a sci-fi setting, and thus sci-fi ish names like Mary Megablade should be allowed.

Dreary Doom should also be allowed because it isn't Amon Gus and they even have a neat reason for it as a bonus cherry on top.

[Misdoubtful]

dude, a lot of admins have names way dumber than this

mine included

Tbh, this.

Not actually calling the following non-exhaustive list of names that admins have or have had dumb but someone could raise a brow to them:

► Show Spoiler

Fluttermuffin
CUTEANIMEGIRLS
Mat Mop Tanglemass
Brigg 'Jail' Prisonperson
Jimmy Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcan
Dingbat 'Beetle Bark' Spingbabble
Lord Sport Shooter Gavin XBIV
Larson Meritocracy
Offal Sweets
Carry Best
Chad Lightninghen
S.Y.N.D.I.C.A.T.
Just Eat The Cats
Cat Man Bad
Wowwwww You Meow Like A Cat That Means You
Cat Vore
THE BIG BAD TERRORIST RED MAN FROM A RIVAL
Fuck Purple Cats
Consume Cat
Fuck You Borg Go Away Law Let Me Kill
There Is A Cult Here And I Am Apart Of It
Ban The Banbots
HoP Is Literally A Cripple Kill Them
Frosted Flakes
Stranger Moth
O.O.F.
Dock Miggers
Noodle Sneks
M.A.L.F.
Charlie Kirk's Real Dad
RGB Graphics Card
The Engineer
LED Lightbulb
Foo Fighters
Diego Despacito
John Gaming
IBM PC
IBM Portable PC
D.O.O.R.K.N.O.B.
D.I.D.N.T.L.A.U.G.H.

I only went down to admin ckeys starting with the letter L for names that they have used, my immersion is now ruined.

I can't help but look at this and think: If you are going to care that much about names being immersion breaking and failing to meet a non-documented standard you may as well start chopping, because there are plenty of names to axe in the community with a standard like this.

I REALLY do not like the idea of arbitrary naming enforcement, and this REALLY feels like another one of those nothing-burgers that doesn't deserve the effort its getting.

I dont really like "Justify why your name fits the policy" as a position to hold on naming policy

otherwise I dont really have strong opinions either way.

I don't quite appreciate the concept of guilty until proven innocent either. This isn't Japan.

[EmpressMaia]

There's literally a dude on MRP named "pizza parker" and that's allowed. But not dreary doom?

[datorangebottle]

For a less meme-y opinion on this: I literally run around with badly disguised stupid joke names on almost all my characters and would be very upset if an admin bwoinked me for any one of them. I love this kind of creative bullshit.
Mike Harr(My Car, as opposed to Mike Hawk)
Anne Taggart(Antag)
Ayla Storm(this one is more niche, but it's a reference to the pirate metal band ALESTORM).
Lam Pl'Ighter(lamp lighter(wow it's a moth))
A couple of my cyborg/AI names are phonetic alphabet spellings of LIGMA and SUGMA. I think I even used WENDEZ once.
None of them are clown statics, but my favorite dumb homonym name is my clown name Hairy Tick.
Goofy names are one of my favorite things about ss13, and it's a shame they're getting trod on by a rule meant to keep people from unironically naming themselves Adolf Hitler.

[Pandarsenic]

Not actually calling the following non-exhaustive list of names that admins have or have had dumb but someone could raise a brow to them:

► Show Spoiler

Fluttermuffin
CUTEANIMEGIRLS
Mat Mop Tanglemass
Brigg 'Jail' Prisonperson
Jimmy Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcan
Dingbat 'Beetle Bark' Spingbabble
Lord Sport Shooter Gavin XBIV
Larson Meritocracy
Offal Sweets
Carry Best
Chad Lightninghen
S.Y.N.D.I.C.A.T.
Just Eat The Cats
Cat Man Bad
Wowwwww You Meow Like A Cat That Means You
Cat Vore
THE BIG BAD TERRORIST RED MAN FROM A RIVAL
Fuck Purple Cats
Consume Cat
Fuck You Borg Go Away Law Let Me Kill
There Is A Cult Here And I Am Apart Of It
Ban The Banbots
HoP Is Literally A Cripple Kill Them
Frosted Flakes
Stranger Moth
O.O.F.
Dock Miggers
Noodle Sneks
M.A.L.F.
Charlie Kirk's Real Dad
RGB Graphics Card
The Engineer
LED Lightbulb
Foo Fighters
Diego Despacito
John Gaming
IBM PC
IBM Portable PC
D.O.O.R.K.N.O.B.
D.I.D.N.T.L.A.U.G.H.

Okay hold up

Some of these are clearly the names of AIs, Cyborgs, or Entertainer roles

But some of these are in fact extremely suspect

(But also I WILL riot if Brigg 'Jail' Prisonperson, Lord Sport Shooter Gavin XBIV, or Larson Meritocracy are declared illegal)

[Misdoubtful]

Not actually calling the following non-exhaustive list of names that admins have or have had dumb but someone could raise a brow to them:

► Show Spoiler

Fluttermuffin
CUTEANIMEGIRLS
Mat Mop Tanglemass
Brigg 'Jail' Prisonperson
Jimmy Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcan
Dingbat 'Beetle Bark' Spingbabble
Lord Sport Shooter Gavin XBIV
Larson Meritocracy
Offal Sweets
Carry Best
Chad Lightninghen
S.Y.N.D.I.C.A.T.
Just Eat The Cats
Cat Man Bad
Wowwwww You Meow Like A Cat That Means You
Cat Vore
THE BIG BAD TERRORIST RED MAN FROM A RIVAL
Fuck Purple Cats
Consume Cat
Fuck You Borg Go Away Law Let Me Kill
There Is A Cult Here And I Am Apart Of It
Ban The Banbots
HoP Is Literally A Cripple Kill Them
Frosted Flakes
Stranger Moth
O.O.F.
Dock Miggers
Noodle Sneks
M.A.L.F.
Charlie Kirk's Real Dad
RGB Graphics Card
The Engineer
LED Lightbulb
Foo Fighters
Diego Despacito
John Gaming
IBM PC
IBM Portable PC
D.O.O.R.K.N.O.B.
D.I.D.N.T.L.A.U.G.H.

Okay hold up

Some of these are clearly the names of AIs, Cyborgs, or Entertainer roles

But some of these are in fact extremely suspect

(But also I WILL riot if Brigg 'Jail' Prisonperson, Lord Sport Shooter Gavin XBIV, or Larson Meritocracy are declared illegal)

You are right, but this is pointing at that whole idea of things not fitting LRP or MRP standards, whatever those are, and backing Scriptis regarding some of the sillier / funny names that even admins use and have used. I stand by BARK BARK BARK BARK the clown in absolute solidarity as much as I do a name like this. Clown, AI, moth, don't really care. This isn't some immersive simulation environment.

Crushing peoples fun here for what?

What is the benefit here of not allowing a bit of a silly name that is within the already reasonable guidelines besides?

I don't vibe with decisions made based on feelings rather than merit, but I mean I guess I get it?

(Also Arm has the best names and I love to point to them whenever someone brings up naming policy for anything)

[Armhulen]

Dingbat 'Beetle Bark' Spingbabble is the best moth name ever

[Cobby]

Naming policy simply cant stand on caring about immersion/ the RP when you give specific roles the ability to largely forego the policy.

[Armhulen]

I have stories for my characters, they are not serious names but they are names with stories and I do roleplay characters when I play as them. People who want to enforce a fully serious roleplay want me to throw my characters away

[Misdoubtful]

I have stories for my characters, they are not serious names but they are names with stories and I do roleplay characters when I play as them. People who want to enforce a fully serious roleplay want me to throw my characters away

Sorry your vision isn't within tolerance. We are going to have to send you to reeducation. This way, please.

[Cobby]

It depends on the name, idrc if you had a million stories as "cat vore", it's a stupid name.

The issue is "cat vore" is REALLY bad and immersion breaking UNLESS you're a clown/wizard because haha wacky!!

Hard to hold a standard for the more grey areas under the specific reason of wanting to maintain immersion with those kinds of policies.

[Armhulen]

I have stories for my characters, they are not serious names but they are names with stories and I do roleplay characters when I play as them. People who want to enforce a fully serious roleplay want me to throw my characters away

Sorry your vision isn't within tolerance. We are going to have to send you to reeducation. This way, please.

:^(

[Misdoubtful]

It depends on the name, idrc if you had a million stories as "cat vore", it's a stupid name.

The issue is "cat vore" is REALLY bad and immersion breaking UNLESS you're a clown/wizard because haha wacky!!

Hard to hold a standard for the more grey areas under the specific reason of wanting to maintain immersion with those kinds of policies.

Yeah exactly I'm not willing to really look at things on that level while we have what we do in place.

I'm glad to see you posting again, I missed it.

[Pandarsenic]

I would take issue with Cat Vore for someone who isn't a Wizard, Entertainer, or Silicon because it's clearly not actually a name. Dreary Doom... rides the line of whether it's a name, but IMO it "feels" enough like a name that it doesn't immediately take me out the way Cat Vore does (even though some extremely unfortunate humans today have the surname vore and Cat/Kat is a perfectly common abbreviation of first names.)

but this sort of administration-by-vibe and subjectivity is why naming policy is such a mess I guess

[datorangebottle]

I would take issue with Cat Vore for someone who isn't a Wizard, Entertainer, or Silicon because it's clearly not actually a name.

It could easily be changed to Kat Vor and be acceptable for anyone.

[Cobby]

I would take issue with Cat Vore for someone who isn't a Wizard, Entertainer, or Silicon because it's clearly not actually a name. Dreary Doom... rides the line of whether it's a name, but IMO it "feels" enough like a name that it doesn't immediately take me out the way Cat Vore does (even though some extremely unfortunate humans today have the surname vore and Cat/Kat is a perfectly common abbreviation of first names.)

but this sort of administration-by-vibe and subjectivity is why naming policy is such a mess I guess

I agree on the DD name my entire problem with naming policy though is that its reliant on muh immersion yet "Cat Vore" isnt exactly a sensible clown/mime name or wizard name either, we just give those up because le epic xd (entirely inconsistent with the idea you want to uphold immersion)

[carshalash]

There are people on manuel at the moment with the names "Pizza Parker" and "Not a taco", neither of which are particularly pleasant players to be around.

Only enforcing this rule on players that can behave is kind of unfair.

[cybersaber101]

Also to note that this is getting to Ian0 and randomlyevil levels of paragraphs over what should be a simple "Ya, you're a long time good faith roleplayer so sure Ill give you the freedom to have a slightly outlandish name"

[Drag]

I wish we had an actual naming policy if we're gonna bother trying to enforce it at all. Rather than what we have which is "if an admin thinks your name is stupid you have to change it." If it was ACTUALLY up to me a lot of y'all would need to go touch grass and think of a better name.

[iamgoofball]

They will take it all into account.

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek when I said it, but I do expect this to interweave itself with policy. So it may take a hot minute to resolve, which is par for the course really.

I do think it's an important appeal in that respect though, because it genuinely does get to the core of admin discretion/opinion within naming policy, and the purposes and goals of naming policy in general.

what if instead of making other headmin terms write policy, you just wrote policy during your 6 month tenure as headmin? or would that require you to admit your fellow headmins were obstructionists, thereby throwing them under the bus?

[Omega_DarkPotato]

I wish we had an actual naming policy if we're gonna bother trying to enforce it at all. Rather than what we have which is "if an admin thinks your name is stupid you have to change it." If it was ACTUALLY up to me a lot of y'all would need to go touch grass and think of a better name.

i disagree with your take (and i think its bad) because youve in the past thought that soup wasnt a good moth name (it is)

[Kendrickorium]

some admins really do be drawing attention to their literal "no fun allowed" status
sad

also DOORKNOB is such a great name for a silicon

[iamgoofball]

just to reiterate again

the person who placed this ban who's pontificating about how they're doing this to make policy get written

was just headmin for 6 entire months and could have written this policy they're begging for at any time during those 6 months and deployed it, and instead chose to do absolutely nothing for 6 months

what a useless ass headmin term of useless fucking middle managers, honestly, all we did was remove things from the codebase last term

[CMDR_Gungnir]

just to reiterate again

the person who placed this ban who's pontificating about how they're doing this to make policy get written

was just headmin for 6 entire months and could have written this policy they're begging for at any time during those 6 months and deployed it, and instead chose to do absolutely nothing for 6 months

what a useless ass headmin term of useless fucking middle managers, honestly, all we did was remove things from the codebase last term

are you just upset that nobody votes for you?

[Super Aggro Crag]

just to reiterate again

the person who placed this ban who's pontificating about how they're doing this to make policy get written

was just headmin for 6 entire months and could have written this policy they're begging for at any time during those 6 months and deployed it, and instead chose to do absolutely nothing for 6 months

what a useless ass headmin term of useless fucking middle managers, honestly, all we did was remove things from the codebase last term

are you just upset that nobody votes for you?

Bro i know this is an international community but the united states constitution made it illegal to own brothas like this

[Misdoubtful]

some admins really do be drawing attention to their literal "no fun allowed" status
sad

also DOORKNOB is such a great name for a silicon

Yeah I really like DOORKNOB. Ruling like this imply that names like DOORKNOB that are funny might be bad.

Funny names are soulful and have rights.

Also just look to some of the pre-coded names for things like silicon's and death squad troopers.

[Timberpoes]

just to reiterate again

the person who placed this ban who's pontificating about how they're doing this to make policy get written

was just headmin for 6 entire months and could have written this policy they're begging for at any time during those 6 months and deployed it, and instead chose to do absolutely nothing for 6 months

what a useless ass headmin term of useless fucking middle managers, honestly, all we did was remove things from the codebase last term

The name ban in the appeal we're looking at now was placed and first appealed during the Lepi/Domi/Coco term 22 months ago. It's old.

No appeal or major policy post that focused on naming policy took place during our term, so it never even entered our radar.

You should know what that's like. So many of your PRs are in response to some trigger-event putting it on your radar. Playing a new game or watching a new TV show to inspire a new feature. Getting mildly inconvenienced (or witnessing another player become mildly inconvenienced, or hearing about another player becoming mildly inconvenienced via third parties) during a Skyrat shift to inspire a new balance change. That sorta stuff.

Policy is very similar. Change is usually triggered by some appeal, policy post, argument or disagreement. Often the only unprompted policy changes you'll see are in response to a headmin platform.

I think I've applied naming policy correctly. If I haven't, the only thing that needs to change is me and my approach because I fucked up.

If I have applied naming policy correctly but the headmins don't feel the outcome is appropriate, then there will likely be policy changes on it. Or maybe policy clarification.

My term's time has been and died with a whimper. It's time for the spotlight to shine on San/Rave/Spookuni and they now get to direct tgstation towards what they feel is the best it can be.

[Timberpoes]

Yeah I really like DOORKNOB. Ruling like this imply that names like DOORKNOB that are funny might be bad.

Funny names are soulful and have rights.

Also just look to some of the pre-coded names for things like silicon's and death squad troopers.

Silicons, entertainer roles like Mime/Clown, Nuke Ops, Wizards and probably more roles generally have really big leeway for crazier names. Oh, Chap too if their name is thematic to some Chap gimmick.

Then unique species naming conventions within that.

Please don't take my ruling of "single human name bad" to mean "all names bad regardless of how much fun they are". I do even acknowledge the various exceptions and flexibilities for naming policy in appeals, and although I don't cite silicons directly they are included in the big list of things that can be named weird or self-referential things.

[Misdoubtful]

Yeah I really like DOORKNOB. Ruling like this imply that names like DOORKNOB that are funny might be bad.

Funny names are soulful and have rights.

Also just look to some of the pre-coded names for things like silicon's and death squad troopers.

Silicons, entertainer roles like Mime/Clown, Nuke Ops, Wizards and probably more roles generally have really big leeway for crazier names. Oh, Chap too if their name is thematic to some Chap gimmick.

Then unique species naming conventions within that.

Please don't take my ruling of "single human name bad" to mean "all names bad regardless of how much fun they are". I do even acknowledge the various exceptions and flexibilities for naming policy in appeals, and although I don't cite silicons directly they are included in the big list of things that can be named weird or self-referential things.

There is an entire conversation that we have had here regarding this. There is more to it than this post, and it is all about this leeway and things 'fitting'.

It is not targeting your ruling specifically, its targeting any in general that someone might make now or five years from now.

[Timberpoes]

Ahh, I see. Carry on then, my bad!

[iwishforducks]

you know we could have gotten policy for this without timber unnecessarily digging their heels into the ground

[dragomagol]

Also to note that this is getting to Ian0 and randomlyevil levels of paragraphs over what should be a simple "Ya, you're a long time good faith roleplayer so sure Ill give you the freedom to have a slightly outlandish name"

Please god people, writing long and eloquent appeals without any kind of visual break does not get you style points. It makes your appeal extremely difficult to parse and take forever to get resolved. If there's a lot of information that you want to get across, break it up into categories.

Don't try to obfuscate your points with fancy words. Make it clear what points you're making in an appeal in a concise way so that headmins (or anyone who's interested) don't have to set aside an afternoon and a pot of coffee just to read your appeal to completion. There's better places to put that kind of literary effort into.

[Drag]

I wish we had an actual naming policy if we're gonna bother trying to enforce it at all. Rather than what we have which is "if an admin thinks your name is stupid you have to change it." If it was ACTUALLY up to me a lot of y'all would need to go touch grass and think of a better name.

i disagree with your take (and i think its bad) because youve in the past thought that soup wasnt a good moth name (it is)

Soup is a bad moth name and I will continue to think this until there is an actual policy that encourages names like this

[Pandarsenic]

New policy "All moths are named soup"

[Super Aggro Crag]

all moths are going to be soup because i will liquidate the fuckers

[Misdoubtful]

Also to note that this is getting to Ian0 and randomlyevil levels of paragraphs over what should be a simple "Ya, you're a long time good faith roleplayer so sure Ill give you the freedom to have a slightly outlandish name"

Please god people, writing long and eloquent appeals without any kind of visual break does not get you style points. It makes your appeal extremely difficult to parse and take forever to get resolved. If there's a lot of information that you want to get across, break it up into categories.

Don't try to obfuscate your points with fancy words. Make it clear what points you're making in an appeal in a concise way so that headmins (or anyone who's interested) don't have to set aside an afternoon and a pot of coffee just to read your appeal to completion. There's better places to put that kind of literary effort into.

why many word few word better

[CMDR_Gungnir]

just to reiterate again

the person who placed this ban who's pontificating about how they're doing this to make policy get written

was just headmin for 6 entire months and could have written this policy they're begging for at any time during those 6 months and deployed it, and instead chose to do absolutely nothing for 6 months

what a useless ass headmin term of useless fucking middle managers, honestly, all we did was remove things from the codebase last term

are you just upset that nobody votes for you?

Bro i know this is an international community but the united states constitution made it illegal to own brothas like this

it's okay bro, i'm not American

we just ignore the part where it's illegal here, too

[iwishforducks]

I wish we had an actual naming policy if we're gonna bother trying to enforce it at all. Rather than what we have which is "if an admin thinks your name is stupid you have to change it." If it was ACTUALLY up to me a lot of y'all would need to go touch grass and think of a better name.

i disagree with your take (and i think its bad) because youve in the past thought that soup wasnt a good moth name (it is)

Soup is a bad moth name and I will continue to think this until there is an actual policy that encourages names like this

i love the idea that moth names are nicknames or given names because their real moth names are completely incomprehensible

soup, in my eyes, is one of the best moth names because of this

i think people also forget that we give people nicknames all the time in real life and actually go by them over their real names

[Drag]

I wish we had an actual naming policy if we're gonna bother trying to enforce it at all. Rather than what we have which is "if an admin thinks your name is stupid you have to change it." If it was ACTUALLY up to me a lot of y'all would need to go touch grass and think of a better name.

i disagree with your take (and i think its bad) because youve in the past thought that soup wasnt a good moth name (it is)

Soup is a bad moth name and I will continue to think this until there is an actual policy that encourages names like this

i love the idea that moth names are nicknames or given names because their real moth names are completely incomprehensible

soup, in my eyes, is one of the best moth names because of this

i think people also forget that we give people nicknames all the time in real life and actually go by them over their real names

See I can get behind this, I hate it when its just "Well Im a moth so I can"