/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32573

These people are the worst.

If you're going to bring a bloody bomb onto the shuttle it's entirely your responsibility to make sure it goes off at the right time if you want to stay on the servers

If you don't like that it costs you nothing to not bring EORG bombs onto the shuttle

Pretty much what Pandarsenic said.

The only think you lose by not bombing the shuttle after round end is the dopamine hit you get from entering dchat.

Only two gripes with this. First is the "disconnected before I could talk to them." This makes it sound like they griefed and then immediately exited out to avoid being bwoinked. If you don't receive a bwoink within several minutes of the incident and d/c the following round, that shouldn't be listed in the ban note in this negative way.

Other gripe is that their appeal was sort of ignored. They claimed it was set to a timer which they didn't mean to go off before the shuttle landed. Either way they are at fault, but I feel like it should be addressed in the appeal beyond just "people often grief the round before it ends, this appeal is denied."

the thing where bomb timers arent synced to round timers like shuttle is kinda weird but also lame for being so insecure about the thought of missing your bombies that you set a timer.

Hot take: Just note people who accidentally bomb the shuttle while its going to centcom. I dont think it really matters and if the guys timer went off early cuz round timers arent synced with bomb timers then thats beyond his control and this person isnt someone who is the issue with EORG and frankly people are only missing out on 1-2mins of the round which is just waiting for another round to start anyways.

this is a code issue, not a rules issue. user should not have been banned for accidentally bombing the shuttle early in this instance, just noted so that if they try the same excuse again it doesn't fly.
players should be able to reasonably expect that time is consistent.

setting a bomb to blow up the exact second the shuttle docks is lame

arm it yourself after it docks you cowards

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:17 pm Hot take: Just note people who accidentally bomb the shuttle while its going to centcom. I dont think it really matters and if the guys timer went off early cuz round timers arent synced with bomb timers then thats beyond his control and this person isnt someone who is the issue with EORG and frankly people are only missing out on 1-2mins of the round which is just waiting for another round to start anyways.

The control is not to set a timer and do it by hand AFTER the round has ended message.

Similarly the pubby shuttle its self will take several seconds to dock, even the most well planned timer here is VERY likely to miss the mark, and yes, you are 100% responsible for that.

"Accidentally" just becomes a race to get the first bombing off "ah was only a second before round end. three seconds. 10 seconds... half a minute oops lol". The line is the round end message and everyone objectively knows where that line is. Mess with it because you just gotta mass grief EORG for everyone else and face the consequences.

Frankly bombing EORG is just shit anyway, hooray for your half a second of no-action uncounterable murdering of everyone else who maybe had their own plans and just wanted a little light fun. Bravo. Truely. You're the best. You won EORG. You can stop now.

I sincerely believe that, with the exception of antags using multiple bombs/trying to survive, if you use a boring normal bomb on the shuttle and don't manually open the TTV with your in-game hands you are an effeminate pissbaby idiot bullied-in-school cuck coward with no concept of coolness (or just a coward with no concept of coolness if not male) and you should be forced to play as a felinid for 10 rounds. I say this not because I am salty, but because I genuinely believe this measure would make this game better. If I am ever somehow elected as headadmin (God told me this is an event with a MTTH of 2400 months FYI) please remind me that I posted this.

A 3 day ban for what amounts to not knowing that hijacking extends the roundend timer is pretty harsh if you ask me.

Easy solution to this problem.
DON'T SET BOMBS TO BLOW UP WHILE THE ROUND IS GOING IF YOU WOULDN'T GET AWAY WITH IT WHEN YOU DID IT.
Oh no sorry mr feature coder we can't do anything to the round timer what if jerry from medbay sets a bomb to blow up and gets smoked.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 10:33 pm A 3 day ban for what amounts to not knowing that hijacking extends the roundend timer is pretty harsh if you ask me.

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 12:04 pm If you're going to bring a bloody bomb onto the shuttle it's entirely your responsibility to make sure it goes off at the right time if you want to stay on the servers

If you don't like that it costs you nothing to not bring EORG bombs onto the shuttle

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:56 pm If you're going to bring a bloody bomb onto the shuttle it's entirely your responsibility to make sure it goes off at the right time if you want to stay on the servers

Are we just not gonna talk about the fact that bombing the shuttle intentionally right before it lands FOR FUNZIES is different than making an honest fuckin mistake (which was proven to be an honest fuckin mistake)?

What is this bizarre rationale. Not just yours but multiple have expressed it. It’s like they don’t care whether the person made a mistake or actually wanted to grief people, the results are the results and the ban will be based on the results. That’s obtuse as hell IMO.

I will always see blowing up the shuttle 0.2 seconds after the shuttle docks at centcom to be really lame since there's absolutely zero counterplay other than just accepting death or having your superbomb blow up 0.1 seconds after the shuttle docks, but this seems like a genuine accident. I guess the reasoning behind the ruling is to have a zero tolerance policy towards any sort of pre-eorg (which is something kinda similar to what I saw on goon when I played there)

I've seen people have to throw their maxcaps out of the shuttle if the shuttle got delayed for any reason I.E. hijacking or whatnot because they couldn't stop it from blowing up preemptively.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:17 am

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:56 pm If you're going to bring a bloody bomb onto the shuttle it's entirely your responsibility to make sure it goes off at the right time if you want to stay on the servers

Are we just not gonna talk about the fact that bombing the shuttle intentionally right before it lands FOR FUNZIES is different than making an honest fuckin mistake (which was proven to be an honest fuckin mistake)?

What is this bizarre rationale. Not just yours but multiple have expressed it. It’s like they don’t care whether the person made a mistake or actually wanted to grief people, the results are the results and the ban will be based on the results. That’s obtuse as hell IMO.

They lose nothing for simply just not bombing the shuttle. It's cringe when people obviously prepare EORG before the round ends, and I have absolutely no sympathy for them when they miss time their bomb that they decided to time IC before the round ends.

It's pretty much NRP when people get this thirsty to try and be the first to bomb the shuttle, and it's really disgusting. The ban is a reminder for them to chill the fuck out, it doesn't matter, and it's not that hard to simply just press the button after the round end report shows.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:17 am

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:56 pm If you're going to bring a bloody bomb onto the shuttle it's entirely your responsibility to make sure it goes off at the right time if you want to stay on the servers

Are we just not gonna talk about the fact that bombing the shuttle intentionally right before it lands FOR FUNZIES is different than making an honest fuckin mistake (which was proven to be an honest fuckin mistake)?

What is this bizarre rationale. Not just yours but multiple have expressed it. It’s like they don’t care whether the person made a mistake or actually wanted to grief people, the results are the results and the ban will be based on the results. That’s obtuse as hell IMO.

Shuttles are a regular source of problems with antags trying to get their last-minute objectives or laughs in, occasional grief shuttles (thank god for the emag gate), nonantags deciding it's their last chance to settle grievances with people they don't like, accidental breaches, roboticists who think they're funny mechapunching everything in sight, etc.

That's before factoring in early misfires of EORG.

EORG is not a sacred right. There is no entitlement to EORG. It has always been the case, and god willing it always will be, that there will be no special exceptions made to protect people who fuck the shuttle up early with their EORG plans. If you don't want to bear responsibility for an EORG bomb going off early, don't bring an EORG bomb.

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:28 am If you don't want to bear responsibility for an EORG bomb going off early, don't bring an EORG bomb.

Should they bear the same responsibility as if they had intended to bomb the shuttle before it lands? That's the only point I'm trying to make. They should still be whacked for it but after learning it wasn't intentional surely it should be reduced, else you're saying it doesn't matter if it was intentional or not.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:07 am

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:28 am If you don't want to bear responsibility for an EORG bomb going off early, don't bring an EORG bomb.

Should they bear the same responsibility as if they had intended to bomb the shuttle before it lands? That's the only point I'm trying to make. They should still be whacked for it but after learning it wasn't intentional surely it should be reduced, else you're saying it doesn't matter if it was intentional or not.

It wasn't intentional for me to stab that guy, I was just running around the corner of the kitchen with my knife in my hand still.

But maybe if I held the knife with the point down at the floor (this is the correct and safe way to walk around with a knife), the worst that would've happened is I bump into the guy.

He wanted to do something that's still against the rules anyway (I'm pretty sure, at the very least, we aren't allowed to PREP for EORG, we're just usually not punished for it if it doesn't go wrong), and it went wrong.

The very easy solution is to simply not pre-plan your EORG Bomb.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:07 am

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:28 am If you don't want to bear responsibility for an EORG bomb going off early, don't bring an EORG bomb.

Should they bear the same responsibility as if they had intended to bomb the shuttle before it lands? That's the only point I'm trying to make. They should still be whacked for it but after learning it wasn't intentional surely it should be reduced, else you're saying it doesn't matter if it was intentional or not.

Yes they should bear that responsibility. It does matter whether it was intentional or not but the punishment given was already fitting. Dipping below recommended consequences for rule-breaking is always an option but never required, and I've made my opinion on the shuttle grief/EORG situation well clear, I think. I had more elaboration typed out but instead I'm just going to repeat: EORG is not a sacred right. There is no entitlement to EORG. It has always been the case, and god willing it always will be, that there will be no special exceptions made to protect people who fuck the shuttle up early with their EORG plans. If you don't want to bear responsibility for an EORG bomb going off early, don't bring an EORG bomb.

If it makes you feel any better, I'd probably kick someone's ass even worse for intentionally doing an early shuttle bomb as a nonantag for being a fucking nuisance, but good luck getting anyone to admit that.

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:05 am Yes they should bear that responsibility. It does matter whether it was intentional or not but the punishment given was already fitting.

Why does it matter if it was intentional or not if the punishment doesn't change either way?

I can at least understand the current punishment. If 5 innocent people were killed then 5 days would be standard and 3 is already going below. But after finding out the presumably new information about this timer situation, and that it wasn't random grief as suspected initially but an honest mistake, the ban absolutely should be adjusted since this is a less severe offense. Not adjusting it says it doesn't matter either way - but you agree it does matter.

EORG is bad you are responsible for maxcapping even if it's an accident don't bring bombs on the shuttle next time etc. etc. yes this is all patently obvious and didn't need to even be given in the appeal since it goes without saying. The appeal should be addressing mitigating factors that could paint the player in a better light than what was initially thought - like it being a complete accident and not intentional grief, but this was just ignored in the appeal and the player was given a robotic statement about how EORG is commonly done before roundend (?).

Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:05 am If it makes you feel any better, I'd probably kick someone's ass even worse for intentionally doing an early shuttle bomb as a nonantag for being a fucking nuisance, but good luck getting anyone to admit that.

This does make me feel slightly better, but I wish you saw that it works both ways. If you'd kick someone's ass worse for intentionally bombing, you'd kick someone's ass less for unintentionally bombing. If you levy a 5 day ban for what you thought was intentional bombing, and come appeal find out it was unintentional, you should lower the ban. It would be unfair to keep the severity of an intentional bombing ban on what you later find is unintentional, surely.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:48 am
This does make me feel slightly better, but I wish you saw that it works both ways. If you'd kick someone's ass worse for intentionally bombing, you'd kick someone's ass less for unintentionally bombing. If you levy a 5 day ban for what you thought was intentional bombing, and come appeal find out it was unintentional, you should lower the ban. It would be unfair to keep the severity of an intentional bombing ban on what you later find is unintentional, surely.

That's kinda inherent, ain't it?

If you'd kick someone's ass worse for intentionally bombing, then you are, by default, kicking it less for unintentionally bombing.

like, maybe the note could be amended to clarify that it wasn't hit-and-run griefing like it implies? But I do support the low-tolerance approach on what amounts to accidentally pulling the trigger on a bomb and getting a bunch of people killed.