Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers

[Imitates-The-Lizards]

Peanut for: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32687

Title is intentionally inflammatory for funsies, dont take it personally Vekter

Anyway, seems like a pretty clear case of wrongfully placed ban, precedent 6 is pretty clear that if you return to a department after being ejected to it, you open yourself up to death:

6. You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety.

Seems pretty open and shut to me, I think the engi could have probably been more communicative, but in terms of the rules, he's in the right, imo.

[Archie700]

I mean if you interpret "creative workplace death variety" as "I can literally just outright round remove someone after they cross the room again" then I think you're just cringe.

[Timberpoes]

Yeah. Creative workplace death doesn't go as far as permitting round removal when escalation otherwise wouldn't permit it.

Same applies to the chef gibbing people, or the chap cremating people.

Genuinely defending your workplace lets you jump to lethal faster, but doesn't let you jump straight to round removal.

[KLOWNPLEASEWORK]

did you justed enter my department, to Dchat you go!

[Nabski]

I know past player behavior doesn't matter too much for these kinds of things BUT.
Dustan has a habit of breaking into places, doing that jobs job, then if you touch it he will try to beat you into crit.
I've even had him break into engineering on me while I was trying to fix his delaminating mess and him start wailing on me as it cries out over the common radio that it's about to blow.

[Kendrickorium]

you guys read all that?

[Not-Dorsidarf]

On the one hand coming in to find your department smashed to hell and ransacked and some rando messing around with your stuff sucks, on the other hand dusting him the next time he breaks in is lame. You're engineering, you are probbably THE non-sec department best able to handle the issue. If you want to be creative try something like cablecuffing him and tying him to a chair in a glass cube until he feels like saying sorry or something

[Vekter]

On the one hand coming in to find your department smashed to hell and ransacked and some rando messing around with your stuff sucks, on the other hand dusting him the next time he breaks in is lame. You're engineering, you are probbably THE non-sec department best able to handle the issue. If you want to be creative try something like cablecuffing him and tying him to a chair in a glass cube until he feels like saying sorry or something

This, the problem wasn't him removing him from the department, it was that he escalated straight to dusting him.

[EmpressMaia]

Should have cable cuffed and tied to a tesla coil

[toemas]

an important piece of information here is that the cook wasnt "tiding" he was setting up the SM [Highly likely that there was noone else around to set it up before the engi joined, because its bagil]
the ban was deserved and in fact lenient

[iamgoofball]

an important piece of information here is that the cook wasnt "tiding" he was setting up the SM [Highly likely that there was noone else around to set it up before the engi joined, because its bagil]
the ban was deserved and in fact lenient

the chef should have stayed the fuck to the side as soon as the actual engineer showed up, stay in your lane

[EmpressMaia]

The engine is a restricted area. Cook should have taken a step back after an engie arrived or just followed the engie around if they wanted to help with power

[Shellton(Mario)]

This ban is fine. Someone should not get assblasted for tiding to do something beneficial because you weren't there to do it and should be allowed to complete the task they were doing.

[Tearling]

an important piece of information here is that the cook wasnt "tiding" he was setting up the SM [Highly likely that there was noone else around to set it up before the engi joined, because its bagil]
the ban was deserved and in fact lenient

Nowadays tiding has a different definition than what it use to have. Tiding nowadays is watered down B&E, where even just asking to be let in by the AI is considered tiding.

[Vekter]

an important piece of information here is that the cook wasnt "tiding" he was setting up the SM [Highly likely that there was noone else around to set it up before the engi joined, because its bagil
the ban was deserved and in fact lenient

It's a contextual thing, what looks like someone getting in to start up the engine to you might look like someone doing B&E to steal a bunch of shit to someone else.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Especially if someone else has previously been through and looted the place seperately

[toemas]

It's a contextual thing, what looks like someone getting in to start up the engine to you might look like someone doing B&E to steal a bunch of shit to someone else.

Especially if someone else has previously been through and looted the place seperately

Then talk to them and ask them what they're up to first before mindlessly attacking them live a caveman. Its a roleplaying game

[Vekter]

It's a contextual thing, what looks like someone getting in to start up the engine to you might look like someone doing B&E to steal a bunch of shit to someone else.

Especially if someone else has previously been through and looted the place seperately

Then talk to them and ask them what they're up to first before mindlessly attacking them live a caveman. Its a roleplaying game

Yeah, this was definitely my biggest issue with how it was handled.

That being said, Dustan can be... a lot, so I understand why maybe he didn't want to talk.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

It's a contextual thing, what looks like someone getting in to start up the engine to you might look like someone doing B&E to steal a bunch of shit to someone else.

Especially if someone else has previously been through and looted the place seperately

Then talk to them and ask them what they're up to first before mindlessly attacking them live a caveman. Its a roleplaying game

The same can be said of the chef.

After being forcibly, and non-harmfully, ejected from Engineering, and then being told to get out when he came back in, he should talk to them instead of running up and mindlessly attacking them like a caveman. It's a roleplaying game.

[toemas]

After being forcibly, and non-harmfully, ejected from Engineering, and then being told to get out when he came back in, he should talk to them instead of running up and mindlessly attacking them like a caveman. It's a roleplaying game.

hes not obligated to do anything after being assaulted, he could have beat him up and tossed him into the crystal and it would have been righteous and just

[Pandarsenic]

If you can't be bothered to interact in literally any way with someone that doesn't end with someone in the crystal maybe LRP is a little too demanding for you

[Agux909]

Both individuals were being equally dickish, and both deserved to be thrown at the SM. Vekter should've gibbed the engi instead of banning him. Use more Smites.

[ChristopherRobin]

For clarification toemas, do you believe that players have a right to break into other player's departments to do their jobs for them, and that anyone who interferes with this has committed a capital offence which warrants round removal? If so, you have my full support, and you should propose it as a replacement for precedent 6, I think there a lot of like-minded individuals who will agree with your message.

[toemas]

For clarification toemas, do you believe that players have a right to break into other player's departments to do their jobs for them

if there is nobody else around to setup the crystal, then breaking in and doing it yourself is the only option you have- its either wait for someone else to break in and do it, or play a shift without power. so, in situations such as these - yes

anyone who interferes with this has committed a capital offence which warrants round removal?

given the above context, yes

[Archie700]

If you can't be bothered to interact in literally any way with someone that doesn't end with someone in the crystal maybe LRP is a little too demanding for you

[KLOWNPLEASEWORK]

i have noticed that some people are actually wild about their workplaces, to the point where being in them could just lead to your ultimate doom.

[Vekter]

Both individuals were being equally dickish, and both deserved to be thrown at the SM. Vekter should've gibbed the engi instead of banning him. Use more Smites.

The ban was placed after the round had already ended.