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Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:16 pm
by Imitates-The-Lizards
Peanut for:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32687
Title is intentionally inflammatory for funsies, dont take it personally Vekter
Anyway, seems like a pretty clear case of wrongfully placed ban, precedent 6 is pretty clear that if you return to a department after being ejected to it, you open yourself up to death:
6. You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety.
Seems pretty open and shut to me, I think the engi could have probably been more communicative, but in terms of the rules, he's in the right, imo.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:26 pm
by Archie700
I mean if you interpret "creative workplace death variety" as "I can literally just outright round remove someone after they cross the room again" then I think you're just cringe.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:33 pm
by Timberpoes
Yeah. Creative workplace death doesn't go as far as permitting round removal when escalation otherwise wouldn't permit it.
Same applies to the chef gibbing people, or the chap cremating people.
Genuinely defending your workplace lets you jump to lethal faster, but doesn't let you jump straight to round removal.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:40 pm
by KLOWNPLEASEWORK
did you justed enter my department, to Dchat you go!
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:10 pm
by Nabski
I know past player behavior doesn't matter too much for these kinds of things BUT.
Dustan has a habit of breaking into places, doing that jobs job, then if you touch it he will try to beat you into crit.
I've even had him break into engineering on me while I was trying to fix his delaminating mess and him start wailing on me as it cries out over the common radio that it's about to blow.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:57 pm
by Kendrickorium
you guys read all that?
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 2:17 pm
by Not-Dorsidarf
On the one hand coming in to find your department smashed to hell and ransacked and some rando messing around with your stuff sucks, on the other hand dusting him the next time he breaks in is lame. You're engineering, you are probbably THE non-sec department best able to handle the issue. If you want to be creative try something like cablecuffing him and tying him to a chair in a glass cube until he feels like saying sorry or something
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:17 pm
by Vekter
Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 2:17 pm
On the one hand coming in to find your department smashed to hell and ransacked and some rando messing around with your stuff sucks, on the other hand dusting him the next time he breaks in is lame. You're engineering, you are probbably THE non-sec department best able to handle the issue. If you want to be creative try something like cablecuffing him and tying him to a chair in a glass cube until he feels like saying sorry or something
This, the problem wasn't him removing him from the department, it was that he escalated straight to dusting him.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 3:33 pm
by EmpressMaia
Should have cable cuffed and tied to a tesla coil
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:18 pm
by toemas
an important piece of information here is that the cook wasnt "tiding" he was setting up the SM [Highly likely that there was noone else around to set it up before the engi joined, because its bagil]
the ban was deserved and in fact lenient
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:25 am
by iamgoofball
toemas wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:18 pm
an important piece of information here is that the cook wasnt "tiding" he was setting up the SM [Highly likely that there was noone else around to set it up before the engi joined, because its bagil]
the ban was deserved and in fact lenient
the chef should have stayed the fuck to the side as soon as the actual engineer showed up, stay in your lane
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:59 am
by EmpressMaia
The engine is a restricted area. Cook should have taken a step back after an engie arrived or just followed the engie around if they wanted to help with power
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:30 pm
by Shellton(Mario)
This ban is fine. Someone should not get assblasted for tiding to do something beneficial because you weren't there to do it and should be allowed to complete the task they were doing.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:38 pm
by Tearling
toemas wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:18 pm
an important piece of information here is that the cook wasnt "tiding" he was setting up the SM [Highly likely that there was noone else around to set it up before the engi joined, because its bagil]
the ban was deserved and in fact lenient
Nowadays tiding has a different definition than what it use to have. Tiding nowadays is watered down B&E, where even just asking to be let in by the AI is considered tiding.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:17 pm
by Vekter
toemas wrote: ↑Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:18 pm
an important piece of information here is that the cook wasnt "tiding" he was setting up the SM [Highly likely that there was noone else around to set it up before the engi joined, because its bagil
the ban was deserved and in fact lenient
It's a contextual thing, what looks like someone getting in to start up the engine to you might look like someone doing B&E to steal a bunch of shit to someone else.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:28 pm
by Not-Dorsidarf
Especially if someone else has previously been through and looted the place seperately
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:41 am
by toemas
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:17 pm
It's a contextual thing, what looks like someone getting in to start up the engine to you might look like someone doing B&E to steal a bunch of shit to someone else.
Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:28 pm
Especially if someone else has previously been through and looted the place seperately
Then talk to them and ask them what they're up to first before mindlessly attacking them live a caveman. Its a roleplaying game
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 1:04 am
by Vekter
toemas wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:41 am
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:17 pm
It's a contextual thing, what looks like someone getting in to start up the engine to you might look like someone doing B&E to steal a bunch of shit to someone else.
Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:28 pm
Especially if someone else has previously been through and looted the place seperately
Then talk to them and ask them what they're up to first before mindlessly attacking them live a caveman. Its a roleplaying game
Yeah, this was definitely my biggest issue with how it was handled.
That being said, Dustan can be... a lot, so I understand why maybe he didn't want to talk.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:18 am
by CMDR_Gungnir
toemas wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:41 am
Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:17 pm
It's a contextual thing, what looks like someone getting in to start up the engine to you might look like someone doing B&E to steal a bunch of shit to someone else.
Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:28 pm
Especially if someone else has previously been through and looted the place seperately
Then talk to them and ask them what they're up to first before mindlessly attacking them live a caveman. Its a roleplaying game
The same can be said of the chef.
After being forcibly, and non-harmfully, ejected from Engineering, and then being told to get out when he came back in, he should talk to them instead of running up and mindlessly attacking them like a caveman. It's a roleplaying game.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:40 pm
by toemas
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:18 am
After being forcibly, and non-harmfully, ejected from Engineering, and then being told to get out when he came back in, he should talk to them instead of running up and mindlessly attacking them like a caveman. It's a roleplaying game.
hes not obligated to do anything after being assaulted, he could have beat him up and tossed him into the crystal and it would have been righteous and just
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:45 pm
by Pandarsenic
If you can't be bothered to interact in literally any way with someone that doesn't end with someone in the crystal maybe LRP is a little too demanding for you
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:07 pm
by Agux909
Both individuals were being equally dickish, and both deserved to be thrown at the SM. Vekter should've gibbed the engi instead of banning him. Use more Smites.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:37 pm
by ChristopherRobin
For clarification toemas, do you believe that players have a right to break into other player's departments to do their jobs for them, and that anyone who interferes with this has committed a capital offence which warrants round removal? If so, you have my full support, and you should propose it as a replacement for precedent 6, I think there a lot of like-minded individuals who will agree with your message.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:16 am
by toemas
ChristopherRobin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:37 pm
For clarification toemas, do you believe that players have a right to break into other player's departments to do their jobs for them
if there is nobody else around to setup the crystal, then breaking in and doing it yourself is the only option you have- its either wait for someone else to break in and do it, or play a shift without power. so, in situations such as these - yes
ChristopherRobin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:37 pm
anyone who interferes with this has committed a capital offence which warrants round removal?
given the above context, yes
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:25 am
by Archie700
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:45 pm
If you can't be bothered to interact in literally any way with someone that doesn't end with someone in the crystal maybe LRP is a little too demanding for you
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:34 am
by KLOWNPLEASEWORK
i have noticed that some people are actually wild about their workplaces, to the point where being in them could just lead to your ultimate doom.
Re: Vekter ignores rule 1 precedent 6, sides with greytiders over engineers
Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 2:36 am
by Vekter
Agux909 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:07 pm
Both individuals were being equally dickish, and both deserved to be thrown at the SM. Vekter should've gibbed the engi instead of banning him. Use more Smites.
The ban was placed after the round had already ended.