/tg/Station 13

Peanut thread for: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32753

If you ask me, regardless of if toemas' ban is justified or not, I would issue a perma to Seth Deces for those lines toemas put under "damning evidence". That screams "Intentionally lagged the server" to me, along with joking about DDOS, and clear intent.

Any ways to make the thread title more inflammatory? Give me your suggestions below!

[real] [not clickbait] [gone wrong] [gone wild]

Considering who Seth Decas is, I really don't think it was an accident.

Out of his last 7 rounds 4 of them he created this weird super condensed condenser(pic), one round he shift start suicided and one round I think he might've just dropped it instead of throwing it because he does break into sci pretty early. Now I don't know dick all about the back end so this could be nothing but it seems to coincide with people crying about lag and there is atleast one case of someone just straight out blaming Seth's lag machine.

Boot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 1:35 pm Out of his last 7 rounds 4 of them he created this weird super condensed condenser(pic), one round he shift start suicided and one round I think he might've just dropped it instead of throwing it because he does break into sci pretty early. Now I don't know dick all about the back end so this could be nothing but it seems to coincide with people crying about lag and there is atleast one case of someone just straight out blaming Seth's lag machine.

the condenser of gods

Lagger plasma flooder deserves the doom he created. IC issue IMO

Is it an ic issue if it affected everyone on the server?

He means IC issue referring to Phillip throwing him into the fire, which shouldn't have been punished.

I played that round and saw, pointed at, grabbed and threw those things he made a couple of times. It already was spamming and covering all my whole chat window. Pretty nasty.

It's not an IC Issue since this was directly the result of Seth fucking with lag, this should have been resolved by Seth being banned, Philip did nothing wrong.

Yeah I didn't say otherwise. Agreed

The super ridiculous condenser chain from the round prior got somebody into trouble (we are paying attention).

Hoolny ahelped and cleared his condenser chain with me this time before using it. I used the server profiler to confirm that it wouldn't be an issue. I don't know what the upper bound is, but whatever he'd put together that shift, it wasn't a problem.

Given that he'd ahelped prior to make sure he wasn't affecting the server, it makes it somewhat obvious to me that he was in toxins to experiment with the efficacy of condenser cooling. The chat logs reaffirm this.

He had his toxins moment, I would've been cool with you demoting him (or killing him and sending to medbay) (or both!), but you opted to throw him (while you had him cuffed) into the fire as a nonantagonist, husking him, and nearly leading to his corpse being completely ashed, a-la plasmaman.

Full relevant logs (1, 2)

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

04:39:33	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "ai open"	(114, 87, 4)	Aft Primary Hallway
04:39:44	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "uj"	(114, 87, 4)	Aft Primary Hallway
04:40:00	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "ai open please"	(114, 86, 4)	Aft Primary Hallway
04:40:12	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "ai open to atmos"	(120, 92, 4)	Engineering Lobby
04:40:32	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "ai open"	(120, 92, 4)	Engineering Lobby
04:41:17	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "ai open"	(123, 95, 4)	Atmospherics
04:43:34	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "which scientist"	(182, 115, 4)	Research and Development
04:43:37	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "stole my machine"	(182, 115, 4)	Research and Development
04:43:41	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "give ti back you dick"	(182, 115, 4)	Research and Development
04:47:30	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "that huyrt"	(179, 99, 4)	Research Division
04:47:31	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "so much"	(179, 99, 4)	Research Division
04:51:24	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "its in"	(179, 104, 4)	Research Division
04:51:24	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "testing"	(179, 104, 4)	Research Division
04:51:27	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "a new machine"	(179, 104, 4)	Research Division
04:52:57	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "sup"	(188, 118, 4)	Research and Development
04:53:12	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "testing"	(186, 118, 4)	Research and Development
04:53:15	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "it a new amchien I amde"	(186, 118, 4)	Research and Development
04:53:25	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "new technolgoy my man"	(186, 118, 4)	Research and Development
04:57:29	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "testing"	(179, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:57:30	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "its limits"	(179, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:57:51	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "saddly it seems"	(179, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:57:52	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "it dosent stakc"	(179, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:57:54	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "and just keeps air"	(179, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:57:56	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "at -50"	(179, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:57:57	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "kelvin"	(179, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:57:58	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "which is"	(179, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:58:01	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "dissapointeing"	(179, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:58:40	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "50"	(180, 102, 4)	Research Division
04:58:41	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "it is"	(180, 102, 4)	Research Division
05:03:35	GAME	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) reset a fire alarm.	(179, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
05:03:36	GAME	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) reset a fire alarm.	(179, 130, 4)	Starboard Primary Hallway
05:03:38	GAME	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) reset a fire alarm.	(180, 124, 4)	Research Division
05:03:39	GAME	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) reset a fire alarm.	(180, 124, 4)	Research Division
05:06:19	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "HELP"	(181, 104, 4)	Research Division
05:06:24	EMOTE	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) screams!	(176, 99, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:29	EMOTE	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) points at John McDumbhead	(172, 98, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:29	EMOTE	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) points at John McDumbhead	(172, 98, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:31	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "dick"	(173, 98, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:43	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) attacked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with stun baton (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 30) 	(174, 99, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:43	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) stun attacked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 40) 	(174, 99, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:45	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) shoved Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with knocking them down (NEWHP: 30) 	(173, 98, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:49	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) attacked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with stun baton (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 18.9) 	(173, 99, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:49	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) stun attacked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 29) 	(173, 99, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:51	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) attempted to handcuff Hoolny/(Seth Deces) (NEWHP: 17.1) 	(172, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:51	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "HELP"	(172, 100, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:52	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "hey"	(172, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:53	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "why the fuck"	(172, 100, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:53	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "hey idiot"	(172, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:54	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) failed to handcuff Hoolny/(Seth Deces) (NEWHP: 16.5) 	(173, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:54	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "you"	(174, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:55	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) attempted to handcuff Hoolny/(Seth Deces) (NEWHP: 16.5) 	(173, 100, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:55	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "ar you stunnign me"	(172, 100, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:57	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) failed to handcuff Hoolny/(Seth Deces) (NEWHP: 16.4) 	(174, 100, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:59	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) attacked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with stun baton (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 6.4) 	(173, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:59	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) stun attacked Hoolny/(Seth Deces) with the stun baton (NEWHP: 16.4) 	(173, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:06:59	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "that wasent"	(172, 100, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:07:00	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "my fault"	(172, 100, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:07:00	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "stop"	(173, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:07:03	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) attempted to handcuff Hoolny/(Seth Deces) (NEWHP: 5.4) 	(172, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:07:06	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "that didnt even make sense"	(172, 100, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:07:07	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) grabbed Hoolny/(Seth Deces) passive grab (NEWHP: 5.4) 	(172, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:07:07	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) handcuffed Hoolny/(Seth Deces) (NEWHP: 5.4) 	(172, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:07:08	SAY	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "I use dA CONDENSER"	(175, 101, 4)	Xenobiology Lab
05:07:13	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "out of the place"	(182, 104, 4)	Research Division
05:07:15	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "and it catche don fire"	(182, 104, 4)	Research Division
05:07:17	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "why"	(182, 105, 4)	Research Division
05:07:19	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "would you do this"	(182, 105, 4)	Research Division
05:07:19	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "condensers"	(182, 104, 4)	Research Division
05:07:20	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "make air colder"	(182, 104, 4)	Research Division
05:07:22	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "I DONT KNOW"	(184, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:24	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "what happened"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:26	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "i know what happened"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:29	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "it made a spark"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:29	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "it dosent make any sense"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:31	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "it lit the fire"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:33	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "yes"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:34	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "but why"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:36	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "was there plasma"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:39	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "outside of teh holo fans"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:41	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "You put plasma there"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:41	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "that dosent make"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:42	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "any sense"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:44	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "You must have"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:45	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "let some out"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:45	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "I PUTTE DPLASMA"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:46	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "INSIDE"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:47	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "You have"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:47	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "HOW"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:48	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "IT WAS INSIDE"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:50	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "HOLO FANS"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:51	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "why would you do this"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:54	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "IN TOXINS"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:55	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "that wouldtn eb possible"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:56	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "where ALL OF THE PLASMA IS"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:07:59	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "you could have done this"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:01	SAY	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) "anywhere else"	(185, 106, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:01	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "because the palsam canister was there"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:03	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "stop beign afucking dick"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:04	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "accidents"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:05	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "happen"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:07	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) grabbed Hoolny/(Seth Deces) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -26.6) 	(184, 104, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:07	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "and im dying"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:07	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "right now"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:09	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) thrown Hoolny/(Seth Deces) grab from tile in Ordnance Office (184,104,4) towards tile at Ordnance Lab (185,101,3) (NEWHP: -30.3) 	(184, 104, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:33	ATTACK	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has died (BRUTE: 67.18, BURN: 137.6, TOX: 16, OXY: 6.66667, CLONE: 0)	(185, 100, 3)	Ordnance Lab
05:08:33	EMOTE	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) seizes up and falls limp, their eyes dead and lifeless...	(185, 100, 3)	Ordnance Lab

The part I take issue with:

Code: Select all

05:08:03	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "stop beign afucking dick"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:04	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "accidents"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:05	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "happen"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:07	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) grabbed Hoolny/(Seth Deces) aggressive grab (NEWHP: -26.6) 	(184, 104, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:07	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "and im dying"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:07	WHISPER	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) "right now"	(185, 105, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:09	ATTACK	Realthoman_/(Phillip Thomas) thrown Hoolny/(Seth Deces) grab from tile in Ordnance Office (184,104,4) towards tile at Ordnance Lab (185,101,3) (NEWHP: -30.3) 	(184, 104, 4)	Ordnance Office
05:08:33	ATTACK	Hoolny/(Seth Deces) has died (BRUTE: 67.18, BURN: 137.6, TOX: 16, OXY: 6.66667, CLONE: 0)	(185, 100, 3)	Ordnance Lab

ok hold on a moment
why wasn't Hoolny transferred to the thunderdome to do that
why wasn't anyone alerted early on when you knew that lag was caused because of a condenser chain
why did you even allow him to do it on station

This is honestly complaint material. Or it'd be if it wasn't Brick, I'm sure he'll come around soon enough.

Like, how is any player supposed to know about the interaction between Scriptis and Hoolny? It's completely irrelevant. Thomas saw Seth causing lag (and the logs show people were actually reacting to lag, so IT DID AFFECT THE ROUND) and his department set on fire because of Seth's gizmo. His reaction might'be been a bit exaggerated but undeserving of punishment given the circumstance Thomas interpreted, AS A PLAYER.

why was this ban made, why is this around, this is pitiful

seth and thomas are both bad faith griefer losers that should have been banned years ago

to clarify i dont think thomas is in the wrong for killing seth but this is the billionth time some loser ruins the game for others, thomas freaks out on them instead of ahelping, then gets banned for ??? instead of the loser
he's just walking into it at this point

I remember screwing around with condensers like this on a local host server a year ago. I don't remember it causing any lag so this might be a recent bug?

Philip Thomas

The hero we need, not the one we deserve.

If it wanst causing any lag BUT if the server was laggy at the time then i dont think anyone should be banned. I wouldnt blame someone who sees someone stacking igniters ontop of each other and mistakes it for a lag machine. They also caused a plasma fire which most people would see as lynch material.

I personally vote unban.

CoffeeDragon16 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:43 pm to clarify i dont think thomas is in the wrong for killing seth but this is the billionth time some loser ruins the game for others, thomas freaks out on them instead of ahelping, then gets banned for ??? instead of the loser
he's just walking into it at this point

“He’s just walking into it at this point”
My brother in christ there is such a thing as resolving conflicts ICly. You should never be forced to ahelp if you have reasonable ways to resolve them IC.

Why did scriptis approve the device in the first place? It's blatantly an ingame exploit, so theres no point letting him experiment with it because if he ever subsequently used it to cool things he'd face a ban/warning for exploiting a la ATHATH

Also banning someone because they killed someone who made something that looks like a lag machine the round after the server got fucked by an identical lag machine, and uses it to griff the fire alarms & light a fire in their shared workplace? And justifying the ban with "Well you should have known he got permission to make a fake lag machine from the admins so he could use it to test his not-allowed exploits for the seventh round running"?

this condenser exploit literally freezes players games whenever used, and seth made multiple remarks about “crashing this station” the time he was talking about condensers
as if to prove a point about how it’s an exploit, he makes a github issue then immediately starts using it
unban toemas he was literally in the right here

ToeMan innocent

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:03 pm And justifying the ban with "Well you should have known he got permission to make a fake lag machine from the admins so he could use it to test his not-allowed exploits for the seventh round running"?

It's pretty clear Toemas would have known... if he had ahelped, which is what he should have done in this situation.

I hope this doesn't get overturned, this was a good ban.

Tearling wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:00 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:03 pm And justifying the ban with "Well you should have known he got permission to make a fake lag machine from the admins so he could use it to test his not-allowed exploits for the seventh round running"?

It's pretty clear Toemas would have known... if he had ahelped, which is what he should have done in this situation.

This perspective is really bad because it assumes you’re not allowed to seek IC retribution without ahelping first. You should never be forced to ahelp if you have valid IC options open to you. Players can only be expected to act on the info they have IC.

Wait so Seth was abusing a system he knew to lag the server multiple times after saying as much publicly AND Brick gave it the go ahead even after the issue report?

This entire situation is stupid.
Why was Seth building a lag machine that he had already issue reported?
Why did Brick give him permission to do so?
Why did toemas try to solve an OOC issue with IC retribution?
Every involved party screwed up, the problem with toemas' punishment is that only toemas has been punished for the shitshow.

It seems intended that condensers can cause freezes

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:14 pm

Tearling wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:00 pm It's pretty clear Toemas would have known... if he had ahelped, which is what he should have done in this situation.

This perspective is really bad because it assumes you’re not allowed to seek IC retribution without ahelping first. You should never be forced to ahelp if you have valid IC options open to you.

No it's not, at all, whatsoever. I fully encourage IC retribution for IC problems! If they break the server rules you should not seek IC retribution first, and ahelp later. If you assume they are breaking the rules, and kill them, you run the risk of this exact situation, where it turns out they weren't breaking the rules. It's not up to players to determine who's breaking the rules or not, I'm baffled you would think it is.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:14 pm Players can only be expected to act on the info they have IC.

This is not an excuse in this situation. Toemas, playing as Phillip Thomas, was an assistant turned scientist. Not security, not a detective. As a promoted assistant, with the situation completely under control, with the griefer in his eyes cuffed, he threw them into the plasmafire. For, according to Toemas himself:

Toemas wrote:I was going to just assume good faith and let him go when he called me a dickhead and i was just like "whatever screw this guy" and tossed him into the inferno.

This is kinda goofposting, but why are you guys (admins) just letting this guy poke at lag machines constantly? You used to ban people for doing em even if it was a meme, like the old hug bronze boots thing.
Like I do not like seth, but he's just being a jackass about this, even in the issue report. You don't make a lag machine once, and then repeat it round on round for.... reasons?

I know what happen here wasn't that, and brick thought it was at a level where it wouldn't lag, but bro why

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:35 am This is kinda goofposting, but why are you guys (admins) just letting this guy poke at lag machines constantly? You used to ban people for doing em even if it was a meme, like the old hug bronze boots thing.
Like I do not like seth, but he's just being a jackass about this, even in the issue report. You don't make a lag machine once, and then repeat it round on round for.... reasons?

I know what happen here wasn't that, and brick thought it was at a level where it wouldn't lag, but bro why

this was the kind of shit that would get you banned a few years back if you decided to just. keep doing it. repeatedly, knowing full well it causes absurd client lag for some people and it's flabbergasting to me that this is a ban being put in place when seth was in the wrong for multiple reasons

It was known that the condenser spam was lagging everyone. Sometimes some griefers are just too much, especially if they are causing lag which becomes an OOC issue, and hinders roleplaying. Obvious griefer is obvious, and players should be free to do whatever it takes to stop the griefer from ruining everyone's experience. I do recommend ahelping as well in such situations.

Tearling wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:33 am you run the risk of this exact situation, where it turns out they weren't breaking the rules

he WAS breaking the rules. scriptis may have, for whatever reason, gave him permission to do so, but he was actively going around using a lag machine to grief people; as evidenced by the logs and HIS own words

The literal problem with this is how would anyone know what Seth did was approved by Scriptis without any context
Were it NOT approved, would Thomas be banned for removing someone who deliberately griefed the server and would be banned anyway

I would like to raise the point that Scriptis might not have given the go-ahead on a lag machine for lag's sake, and that he might have given permission for an air-cooling experiment that could cause lag as a side effect. From Scriptis' perspective, Hoolny could have appeared as if he were committing atmos-witchcraft/autism that might lag the server and had asked for permission out of consideration of other players.
I find this perspective somewhat more believable to Hoolny asking "Hey can I lag the shit out of the server?" and Scriptis going, "Sure, I love turn-based videogames."

Then, for the damning evidence. This is in deadchat, simultaneously making it metaknowledge if used IC scenarios and comes off as more of a joke than an admission of intentionally lagging the server.

Overall, the more I look at the logs the farther away from the narrative of toemas having any grounds to execute Hoolny on.
Toemas' admission he wasn't there for the plasma fire in toxins, toemas confronting Hoolny in xenobio and Hoolny insisting that he had no idea how the plasma fire in toxins occurred, etc.
Seems like toemas saw Hoolny set up some condenser contraption, both of them left, toemas found toxins to be a plasma fire, grabbed Hoolny from xenobio, blamed him for the mess and threw him in, using a metaknowledged statement from dchat as justification that Hoolny was exploiting condensers as a lag machine and then trying to R4 him because lag-machine exploiting is indicative of an antag despite being something that not even antags are allowed to do.

This does not excuse not informing the players of what Hoolny was about to do, or that it was already known it causes lag on the basis of it happening before, or the fact that to even do that you would have to have an unrealistic amount of condensers in the same stack.

Can we ahelp this shit right now?

ahelp: hey Vekter, there's tons of evidence that Seth Deces spent several shifts knowingly, willingly, and intentionally creating lag machines in this thread and ban appeal. Can you look into it and maybe ban the guy? Thanks

I'm far from fond of toemas, but even I can tell this is a bullshit ban.

i would laugh my ass off if this turned out to be a biased ban

toemas wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:52 am he WAS breaking the rules. scriptis may have, for whatever reason, gave him permission to do so, but he was actively going around using a lag machine to grief people; as evidenced by the logs

If an admin gave him permission to build a lag machine then no, he was not breaking the rules, at least, not for building a lag machine. Make an admin complaint if you think the admin decision was bad, but if an admin tells me "Oh yeah, go ahead and go X" and then I do X, I do not expect to banned for it, would you?

The only way he was breaking the rules by making the lag machine was if he intentionally lied to the admin about it, this is the a fair point by ChristopherRobin.

ChristopherRobin wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:32 am I would like to raise the point that Scriptis might not have given the go-ahead on a lag machine for lag's sake, and that he might have given permission for an air-cooling experiment that could cause lag as a side effect.

It's entirely possible that Seth lied through ahelps, though we don't know the full story yet.

toemas wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:52 am and HIS own words

Speaking of his own words... lets go ahead and use your words against your words.

toemas wrote:I was going to just assume good faith and let him go when he called me a dickhead and i was just like "whatever screw this guy" and tossed him into the inferno

You were going to assume he was good faith, but because he called you a dickhead, you round removed him.

This is only tangentially related to this ban appeal, but I don't think I'll ever understand why so many people are concerned about "round removal" in a roleplaying game that resets every hour. Dying and being gone is part of the story. Seeing a guy get shot in the head hits a lot harder when you realize "oh crap, this guy's actually dead as a doornail and I could be next".

Not to mention, a person's total obliteration often lend themselves to better comedic/dramatic timing than a slow, drawn out butchering process.

Personally I think that regardless of whether you have permission, griefing the server should be punished by death if the other players catch you, just like if the admin gives you permission to kill people that doesnt stop the crew from lynching you for killing the clown.

Getting secret hidden OOC approval to be a shithead should only be a defense against OOC retribution.

Play silly games win silly prizes. While Thomas isn't a stellar player generally I feel like using the ic knowledge he had and believing some asshole burnt down his department and is actively lagging the server it seems valid to burn the shitter to a crisp on LRP. While I'm not saying you should take ic action for rule violations and you should always ahelp situations, it feels justified in this case because of sufficient IC reasons imo.

It's like people reading rule 8 violating stuff on comms, would I ahelp him? Yes. Would i also toss them out of an airlock? Yes.

Experiments that are likely to lag the server should be directed to the how to run a SS13 server page for local experimentation.

This is an incredible shitshow. Quality peanut.

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:24 pm Experiments that are likely to lag the server should be directed to the how to run a SS13 server page for local experimentation.

Big, big question mark here. If you want to test something, spin up a fucking server for it. It's not that hard. The only reason you would test on the server is because you're doing "testing, hehe" where you're getting away with crashing/griefing.

I think they both fucked up here. Scriptis probably should've put Seth on Thunderdome or otherwise isolated him so he didn't lag anyone else and Thomas shouldn't have yeeted Seth for breaking rules without ahelping him first.

Ziiro wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:24 pm Big, big question mark here. If you want to test something, spin up a fucking server for it. It's not that hard. The only reason you would test on the server is because you're doing "testing, hehe" where you're getting away with crashing/griefing.

After talking with a few people it seems most don't know how easy it is to host your own copy of tg.

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:32 pm I think they both fucked up here. Scriptis probably should've put Seth on Thunderdome or otherwise isolated him so he didn't lag anyone else and Thomas shouldn't have yeeted Seth for breaking rules without ahelping him first.

yes he should have ahelped, but he certainly should not have been punished for not doing that
when a player kills you, you can kill them back or ahelp, and both of those are not issues
when a player lags the game and sets your department on fire, why is it an issue to kill them now

I was going to post this in the appeal but it's a bit too peanutty, so here it goes:

I can provide a relevant example of an admin permitting a player to create a setup that would inevitably cause lag in the past: That was actually uh... Permitted by me. An emitter setup (back when they weren't hitscan) of well in excess of 100 chained emitters that lagged the server and made all projectiles process so slowly, they were practically stationary.

I had to babysit it in order to get that far, and I was pushing all my favourite maintainer buttons and using all my favourite coder techniques to allow it to happen without TOTALLY impacting the rest of the shift.

And yet it still did impact the rest of the shift, and pissed a few people off in the process. One of the people I annoyed by allowing and encouraging it, is our current host vote.

It was done under the MRP ruleset.

Speaking from past experience, if someone had come to lynch the engineer setting up this monstrosity (instead of what actually happened, which was everyone admiring it) I genuinely wouldn't have considered it a rule break.

I think that because this incident with Hoolny wasn't the first time, plus the player was actively testing their new lag machine in a live shift - and not the thunderdome - I would applied Rule 0 to their lynching regardless.

It is probably not in the best interests of the server to ban players that lynch people who cause excessive disruption across multiple shifts with lag machines.

I would have appreciated them being reported via ahelp, however a ban like this feels like it serves little practical purpose. A more nuanced take would offer some leniency towards a player that knows the other person is making or experimenting with lag machines.

i would say that breaking the fabric of reality is a good reason to RR someone
this really shouldnt have been a ban

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:32 pm I was going to post this in the appeal but it's a bit too peanutty, so here it goes:

I can provide a relevant example of an admin permitting a player to create a setup that would inevitably cause lag in the past:

Spoiler:

Yes but based off the screenshot you can tell it took that engineer atleast 30mins-1 hour to set up and watching all the beams get shot out in a circle is cool. Watching 50 condensers go off on 1 tile is not cool looking and takes a lot less effort. One is a work of art and the other is lazy boring and adds no value what so ever.

It took them the entire shift. When they ran out of iron, I told them to tear down walls, chairs and tables to get more. Let nothing stand in their way.

Sounds like it was a group project as well

Vekter wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:32 pm I think they both fucked up here. Scriptis probably should've put Seth on Thunderdome or otherwise isolated him so he didn't lag anyone else and Thomas shouldn't have yeeted Seth for breaking rules without ahelping him first.

You really going to ignore my ahelp earlier in the thread

How you gonna have time to hop on to Sybil to bwoink me for stealing shoes as an assistant on LRP, but then you see this man creating lag machines the majority of his recent shifts and ain't gonna address it?

Smh