/tg/Station 13

clown deserved it

bastardblaster wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:00 am clown deserved it

He did, but critting him was a bit over the line for a single joke and if you're gonna warn someone to quit something, you actually have to give them enough time to stop doing it first.

clowns!

There's a reason there is a title screen of them floating out of an airlock.

mommy

I do think a 7 day ban is a bit too much for this? I wouldn't call this self antagging, they had a valid reason to start a conflict, even if they immediately escalated to violence. If they didn't have any other notes for improper escalation a ban seems way too extreme
The clown was also a dick it doesn't take more than half a second to shift click on someone and see their pronouns, they might've been purposefully misgendering them which breaks Rule 11 but i have no idea

vekter i disagree with this ban

This is a certified Vekter moment.

Now really, putting aside the "always kill the clown" meme, I think it's kind of stupid and very failrp to jump into critting the clown basically just for existing. Also the clown just misgendered a character, and did so to make a play on the title "CMO".

Was the banned person playing a character that after one vague misgender warning jumps straight to crit/kill another player? That's pretty shitty, and it's not very different to justifying a kill with "my character is insane" after the most minor inconvenience. Pretty self-antag attitude.

I'd say 1 day... but whoooops! Note history my beloved. Oh how I wish these were fucking public already so we could have a better picture of how much of a repeated offender a player is/isn't. Would be great, right?

Chief Mommy Officer

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:37 am Chief Mommy Officer

*gigglesnorts

today on tg: player gets banned for week for not tolerating sexual harassment

vekter you have really been off your game recently

Agux909 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:35 am I'd say 1 day... but whoooops! Note history my beloved. Oh how I wish these were fucking public already so we could have a better picture of how much of a repeated offender a player is/isn't. Would be great, right?

I think notes shouldn't be public honestly, it just seems like it would be another source of drama. If we trust our admins enough to ban people, then we should be able to trust them enough to ban people based on their history. If other admins disagree then they can voice their concerns to the headmins who will (hopefully) overturn or reduce the ban.

Yeah, it was more of a nudge post so a certain based person came in and made these public.

CoffeeDragon16 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:02 am today on tg: player gets banned for week for not tolerating sexual harassment

your bones have gotta be made of jello to actually consider this sexual harassment

TheSmallBlue wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:31 am The clown was also a dick it doesn't take more than half a second to shift click on someone and see their pronouns, they might've been purposefully misgendering them which breaks Rule 11 but i have no idea

You telling me I can get people banned every time they call my statics a guy?

Assuming malice is never a good idea.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:18 am your bones have gotta be made of jello to actually consider this sexual harassment

youre just incredibly desensitized to it after seeing it daily here
every time i take a break and come back im shocked at how creepy people are

i will never forget cyan telling me his first round he got what amounts to getting gangbang erped and he just thought it was normal for the server

CoffeeDragon16 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:11 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:18 am your bones have gotta be made of jello to actually consider this sexual harassment

youre just incredibly desensitized to it after seeing it daily here
every time i take a break and come back im shocked at how creepy people are

i will never forget cyan telling me his first round he got what amounts to getting gangbang erped and he just thought it was normal for the server

my brother in christ the clown calling the CMO the Chief Mommy Officer is not sexual harassment if you think it is you are way too sensitive

it’s licherally the clown

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:42 am

CoffeeDragon16 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:11 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:18 am your bones have gotta be made of jello to actually consider this sexual harassment

youre just incredibly desensitized to it after seeing it daily here
every time i take a break and come back im shocked at how creepy people are

i will never forget cyan telling me his first round he got what amounts to getting gangbang erped and he just thought it was normal for the server

my brother in christ the clown calling the CMO the Chief Mommy Officer is not sexual harassment if you think it is you are way too sensitive

it’s licherally the clown

it's sexual harassment

I really don't know what to think. I get more confused with every reply to this peanut I read.

Clowns being lynched for saying dumb shit should be the standard, not the exception

its not sexual harassment, get real
doesnt mean it isnt wierd and annoying

For it to be considered sexual harassment it has to be actual harassment in the first place. Calling someone names in a video game is not harassment

Wolfmoy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:29 am Clowns being lynched for saying dumb shit should be the standard, not the exception

Okay but the issue here is the severity for the first time:

If this was something the clown kept doing it would be fine punishment

If the cmo didn't go so hard for their first beating of would be fine

If the player didn't have a history of self antag the first two points could probably be a warning

All these factors together line up to be "over the line"

At the bare minimum you have to agree to have the clown live long enough to run a joke out at least a little

Farquaar wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:27 am I really don't know what to think. I get more confused with every reply to this peanut I read.

^ cattle who cannot express his true opinion on a contentious topic

you sicken me

toemas wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:35 am For it to be considered sexual harassment it has to be actual harassment in the first place. Calling someone names in a video game is not harassment

not all sexual harassment is equal

it's still sexual harassment; no one is going "This Guy Is A Sex Offender"

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:50 am it's still sexual harassment

no

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:50 am not all sexual harassment is equal

it's still sexual harassment; no one is going "This Guy Is A Sex Offender"

My main man, are you saying it’s sexual harassment because they are being misgendered, or because you think “mommy” is an vulgar sexual term

Why is everyone in here glossing over Vekter's actual argument? He said the CMO didn't actually give the clown sufficient time to not insult him the second time.

This is more of a failrp and over escalation/over aggression ban than anything to do with the original insults.

Freaky comment. I don't think it amounts to sexual harassment but I 100% feel that it's a freakazoid commentsto make and definitely something I personally would beat people up for. Always beat up freaky players.

Also if we're talking about escalation doesn't the conflict end when one party hits crit. The clown continued despite this (unless I'm misunderstanding.) when the conflict was over and the admin still defends him. (Might be wrong) And in terms of "verbal warnings" let's say the clown didn't see the text, isn't it fucking obvious when someone crits you over something that they want you to stop?

Lots of my friends don't want to play this game anymore because of freaky weirdos man. This is sad to watch.

lmao im not even going to read the appeal

Yeah after reading the logs for both individuals it's such a clear cut case. Some details may be missing and I'm not going to intercalate the logs with the events, but for anyone being curious:
https://tgstation13.download/parsed-log ... 2/game.txt

Clown (called "Gonna Stab You In The Leg") was just clowning around and eventually gets to medbay, where he starts some sort of "breakdance competition", which he apparently "wins" for (by his words) 10000 credits as "per breakdancing law", he then gives medbay "his blessing" which has something to do with his canned laughter.

Nobody was being mean to the clown as of yet here, and it's plainly obvious he didn't come to medbay with the intention of "harrassing" anyone. He was just doing clown gimmicks.

CMO (Nyle Black) decides to start punching/kicking the clown when he encounters them and says "Chief Mommy Officer", and before the clown even realizes what the CMO is talking about, he goes into crit. Clown even asks them to stop and why they're doing it, but the CMO doesn't really say anything else after his vague "misgender me 1 more time". Clown at this point never even harmed the CMO and had boxing gloves on, which he was using to box with another doctor.

After getting healed by staff, the clown, understandably, starts malding against the CMO, and when he has the opportunity, stabs them with a drill.They fight again, clown calls security and yells in comms that CMO is killing him, which then happens.

Clown then gets revived, CMO starts yelling that he is a tot and tries to kill him again, which at least 2 medstaff oppose at this point (from here onwards the clown changes the way to adress the CMO, using he/they).

Clown tries to call security, also calls CMO out as a tot, and runs around asking them to stop, to no avail. CMO not only kills the clown again, but also kills those 2 coworkers for defending the clown and opposing their boss (which is very telling of their regard for the CMO as a head of staff), then CMO stuffs the clown's body into their locker and threatens to cremate him. Clown is AGAIN revived later, and this time he leaves medbay as fast as he can, so as to not start shit again.

We're missing the note history but I'm 99% sure Vekter made the right call here.

Yeah but i just love killing agux

I understand. Just be less like this guy, please.
Also fucking hell crag, posting like 1 second before I edit it.

I didnt do it on purpose

Although restarting conflict was wrong on the clown's part the initial fight was an Escalation Failure moment on behalf of the CMO

calling someone mommy should get you slapped but not into crit though dont be fuckin weird online

The clown take:
If the person who said it was any other job, this would be a valid ban
But because it's the clown, who is actively clowning, it's based. If the clown ahelps afterwards, it's basically banbait but I don't think I'd apply a banbaiting ban. You just gotta learn that playing clown puts you in a position where you're able to say "Chief Mommy Officer" and then get beaten into the floor tiles for it, WHICH IS GREAT! All clowns should be cracking champagne irl if they're getting critted over a single line

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:37 pm Although restarting conflict was wrong on the clown's part the initial fight was an Escalation Failure moment on behalf of the CMO

calling someone mommy should get you slapped but not into crit though dont be fuckin weird online

I think be critted for freaky comments is pretty normal, in my eyes at least.

toemas wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:34 am its not sexual harassment, get real
doesnt mean it isnt wierd and annoying

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:18 am

CoffeeDragon16 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:02 am today on tg: player gets banned for week for not tolerating sexual harassment

your bones have gotta be made of jello to actually consider this sexual harassment

A rare case where I agree with both Sinful and Toemas at the same time.
But yeah Gungnir makes a good point.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:32 am Assuming malice is never a good idea.

"Don't attribute to malice what you can easier attribute to stupidity"... is a quote or something.

Agux909 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:35 am I'd say 1 day... but whoooops! Note history my beloved. Oh how I wish these were fucking public already so we could have a better picture of how much of a repeated offender a player is/isn't. Would be great, right?

He's been banned or noted six times since October 1st for self-antagging.

This is absolutely one of those situations where it's like "Normally I'd just note you for this but you keep fucking doing it so obviously notes aren't getting the message across".

Tearling wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:43 pm

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:32 am Assuming malice is never a good idea.

"Don't attribute to malice what you can easier attribute to stupidity"... is a quote or something.

Bingo.

Retarded digg clown owned

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:39 pm

Tearling wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:43 pm

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:32 am Assuming malice is never a good idea.

"Don't attribute to malice what you can easier attribute to stupidity"... is a quote or something.

Bingo.

It's called Hanlon's Razor

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 10:36 pm

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:39 pm

Tearling wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 6:43 pm

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:32 am Assuming malice is never a good idea.

"Don't attribute to malice what you can easier attribute to stupidity"... is a quote or something.

Bingo.

It's called Hanlon's Razor

I did not, in fact, know the name for it, thank you!

Vekter wrote: He's been banned or noted six times since October 1st for self-antagging.

This is absolutely one of those situations where it's like "Normally I'd just note you for this but you keep fucking doing it so obviously notes aren't getting the message across".

Did the clown deserve it? Yeah, probably.

But!

You do, in fact, have to actually wait to see if they follow a "don't do that" warning before you turn them into banana smoothie pulp. And if you have six notes for self-antag in the past 80 days, meaning an average of one note every 2 weeks, it looks an awful lot like you maybe don't have that much of a problem with the clown as much as you were looking for any excuse to get in a fight.

the clown was literally in medical get over it, soft critting really isnt that bad

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:56 am the clown was literally in medical get over it, soft critting really isnt that bad

The point just took off from Point Airport.
It was at least 8 kilometers over your head.

Overall… Overall. Both parties were at fault. The clown was at fault for ahelping this in the first place, clowns should be EXPECTING to get crit over risky jokes and wear it as a medal. The CMO was at fault for going straight to softcrit I suppose, buuuut…

The CMO probably shouldn’t have gotten a ban for softcritting someone calling them chief mommy officer. I think that makes you close to valid. Sure they could’ve handled it better but probably no admin action was needed.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Dec 21, 2022 12:16 am Overall… Overall. Both parties were at fault. The clown was at fault for ahelping this in the first place, clowns should be EXPECTING to get crit over risky jokes and wear it as a medal. The CMO was at fault for going straight to softcrit I suppose, buuuut…

The CMO probably shouldn’t have gotten a ban for softcritting someone calling them chief mommy officer. I think that makes you close to valid. Sure they could’ve handled it better but probably no admin action was needed.

See

Agux909 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 12:52 pm Best Summary