/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33429

The note is inaccurate. That's not a maxcap. A maxcap is 5, 10, 20. Also how do you not reach the maxcap with superheated plasma? Some serious skill issue there.

Absolutely the captain's fault. You can defuse TTVs instantly by clicking on them and taking off the tanks. Or if he didn't know how to do that he could have thrown it into the prison instead of in disposals towards a populated area. How is it his fault that the Captain decided to send it towards a populated area?

Harricross has been dishing out some outta pocket stuff recently. Assuming the bomb was a maxcap is kinda lame.

Assuming the bomb was a maxcap doesn't really mean anything, especially since he put the stats of the bomb in the note. Maxcap has basically just become a synoynm for TTV bomb.

Not going to touch on the actual appeal or its merits here but...

Harri is the most active Manuel admin.

Its pretty rad that they included the bomb stats and its close enough to being a max cap that who cares if its off a little. Still a big bomb.

Honestly its super funny that they managed to bomb AND end their own revolution through a series of unfortunate events. Dude played a dangerous game by choosing to use an incorrectly set timer on an otherwise ingenious idea. I respect the decision to try it. Disposals bombing is hard to get right and takes a lot of practice and knowledge. Its SUPER comical that it almost got sent back.

The captain responsible for the well-being of the entire station happens to come across a bomb that he can instantly defuse, but instead decides to flush it back down the pipes and blows up an entire hospital, killing everyone.
A true SS13 experience, well played everyone.


With impressed regards
-BONERMASTER

We keep seeing these manuel appeals and it continues to reinforce why I stopped playing there. Any attempts at creativity or fun are met with bans and notes. I love the story this event tells and hate that it somehow required admin intervention. More stories = good. Honestly I think the captain is more responsible for the medbay bombing than the scientist. Captain was the one that took ownership of the bomb and decided to irresponsibly put it back in the disposal system. Not that I think he should get noted either.

Wtf do these admins even play SS13 for?

This is one of the most epic things that can happen in the game.

If you don't think this is peak SS13 then honestly why the fuck even play the game.

"A game where you and many other real, living people with questionable social intelligence roleplay together on the worst space station in the universe.

Where aliens, shapeshifters and traitors working for rival corporations are the least of your concern.

Where the greatest threat to your own existence are your own crew members."

nevermind

I saw a discussion in the Manuel discord and it had a very different opinion about this note. Most people there thought that: Yeah, the team antag that killed their team should get a note. If they made a device that ends up (even by accident) killing the team, they broke rules and should have the note.

There was one person that thought otherwise but mostly that was the sentiment. I personally am on the fence, as I believe notes are important to have. There was a bwoink or two that I have had that I think I should have had a note for, but didn't. But maybe that's just because people think notes are some evil thing that means BIG BAD or something. I am fine with having a note for a failed execution of a bomb. But it needs to be done consistently between all players.

Hilarious.

If I were the admin in this situation I would most probably let him off with a talking to. There’s no way to perfectly nail a TTV bombing, so everyone makes mistakes now and then. What’s important is to learn from it.

Just like fluke ops, everyone has their fair share of mistakes. And learning from them is enough.

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 4:20 pm Harri is the most active Manuel admin.

That's an excellent reason to not play there outta fear of getting notes for making a mistake.

Noting someone for being dumb is cringe af.

I'm not an mrp player- I'll be forthcoming. However, moments like this are why I play ss13! It's so funny to see your miraculous plan fall apart because of the contribution of others- I dunno, I would really love to see genuine mistakes or funny occurrences not punished. It would add so much more to the roleplaying if people weren't afraid to take risks.

haricross needs a vacation

Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:04 pm Hilarious.

If I were the admin in this situation I would most probably let him off with a talking to. There’s no way to perfectly nail a TTV bombing, so everyone makes mistakes now and then. What’s important is to learn from it.

Just like fluke ops, everyone has their fair share of mistakes. And learning from them is enough.

Is it common practice to not put a note for a rule break if they seem to learn from the talking to? I can't remember most of the bwoinks I have had in the past, but I think I learned from them? Not sure sometimes I'd like to be able to see what I have done wrong months later so I can remember it. But that is probably something most players do NOT want.
(Watch me get notes from now on after this lol)

Constellado wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:24 pm

Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 7:04 pm Hilarious.

If I were the admin in this situation I would most probably let him off with a talking to. There’s no way to perfectly nail a TTV bombing, so everyone makes mistakes now and then. What’s important is to learn from it.

Just like fluke ops, everyone has their fair share of mistakes. And learning from them is enough.

Is it common practice to not put a note for a rule break if they seem to learn from the talking to? I can't remember most of the bwoinks I have had in the past, but I think I learned from them? Not sure sometimes I'd like to be able to see what I have done wrong months later so I can remember it. But that is probably something most players do NOT want.
(Watch me get notes from now on after this lol)

It depends on the admin. There is no “common practice” and admins can place notes on their own choice, given that it is true and reasonable.

I just think a case like this doesn’t deserve a note. While others think it should deserve one, I feel as if this was a good faith mistake; nobody was wrong in this situation. Perhaps I’m being too laid back, but, it’s better to focus on the player rather than the punishment.

was it so hard to toss it into maintenance behind sec instead of mailing it to the brig?
or get a spacesuit and leave it outside by sec?
manual delivery is probably the best way to place a bomb.
ed: the only person in the wrong here is the captain. literally remove any component and the bomb stops functioning.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:01 pm was it so hard to toss it into maintenance behind sec instead of mailing it to the brig?
or get a spacesuit and leave it outside by sec?
manual delivery is probably the best way to place a bomb.
ed: the only person in the wrong here is the captain. literally remove any component and the bomb stops functioning.

Nobody is in the wrong. Shoving a bomb back is a natural reaction.

The mentality that not playing optimally is "wrong" needs to die.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:06 pm

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:01 pm was it so hard to toss it into maintenance behind sec instead of mailing it to the brig?
or get a spacesuit and leave it outside by sec?
manual delivery is probably the best way to place a bomb.
ed: the only person in the wrong here is the captain. literally remove any component and the bomb stops functioning.

Nobody is in the wrong. Shoving a bomb back is a natural reaction.

The mentality that not playing optimally is "wrong" needs to die.

at best the captain didn't know the basics of how bombs work and wanted to not explode. ok.
at worst, the captain willfully bombed a different section of the station because he didn't want to hang out in deadchat for a bit. There are so many other options to deal with this issue that shoving the bomb back down disposals is basically a non-option.
He was the captain and probably had a hand teleporter, and could've sent it to a reliable part of the station(usually the bridge, which very few people inhabit).
Even if the handtele didn't have a destination, he could've tried to make a portal to the outside and tossed it out of the station that way; risky, but more likely to succeed than going for the airlock.
If he didn't have the handtele, he could've booked it towards a security airlock and tossed it outside, at least attempting to get the bomb off the station before it exploded. The fact that it made it down the loop to medbay means that he had at least five to ten seconds left on that thing.
Or he could've interacted with the bomb's timer and turned it off/extended it without removing it to buy time for other bomb disposal solutions.
Just because he doesn't have to play optimally doesn't mean he has to play in the worst way possible that just happens to result in a bomb exploding in a heavily trafficked area.

Between the result of the Maia appeal and this I'm turning off playing antagonist on Manuel, jesus fucking christ.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:31 pm

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:06 pm

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:01 pm was it so hard to toss it into maintenance behind sec instead of mailing it to the brig?
or get a spacesuit and leave it outside by sec?
manual delivery is probably the best way to place a bomb.
ed: the only person in the wrong here is the captain. literally remove any component and the bomb stops functioning.

Nobody is in the wrong. Shoving a bomb back is a natural reaction.

The mentality that not playing optimally is "wrong" needs to die.

at best the captain didn't know the basics of how bombs work and wanted to not explode. ok.
at worst, the captain willfully bombed a different section of the station because he didn't want to hang out in deadchat for a bit. There are so many other options to deal with this issue that shoving the bomb back down disposals is basically a non-option.
He was the captain and probably had a hand teleporter, and could've sent it to a reliable part of the station(usually the bridge, which very few people inhabit).
Even if the handtele didn't have a destination, he could've tried to make a portal to the outside and tossed it out of the station that way; risky, but more likely to succeed than going for the airlock.
If he didn't have the handtele, he could've booked it towards a security airlock and tossed it outside, at least attempting to get the bomb off the station before it exploded. The fact that it made it down the loop to medbay means that he had at least five to ten seconds left on that thing.
Or he could've interacted with the bomb's timer and turned it off/extended it without removing it to buy time for other bomb disposal solutions.
Just because he doesn't have to play optimally doesn't mean he has to play in the worst way possible that just happens to result in a bomb exploding in a heavily trafficked area.

lmao wilfully. Dude just saw a bomb and thought "NOPE".

BrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:04 pm Between the result of the Maia appeal and this I'm turning off playing antagonist on Manuel, jesus fucking christ.

A.) Not gonna stop you from becoming rev.
B.) What do those two bans have in common?

Reading the first half of this note was actually hilarious, really great "only in SS13 moment". Unfortunately the second half of the note was not.

vect0r wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:16 pm

BrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:04 pm Between the result of the Maia appeal and this I'm turning off playing antagonist on Manuel, jesus fucking christ.

A.) Not gonna stop you from becoming rev.
B.) What do those two bans have in common?

Literally just gonna ghost when I get rev, I usually flood the brig because I main atmos tech when I get rev. I'm not going to take liability for someone running off with the plasma can or something, fuck that.

Gonna ghost if I get culted now too.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:31 pm blah blah

Have you considered that other people don't think play/behave/act the same as you? Your solutions to the problem are not concrete and merely highlight some examples of what could have been done, rather than what should have been done.
For all we know the Cap might have panicked or thought he had enough time to flush it down disposals or may not know how to properly interact with bombs or how to dissasemble them.

Should I judge you when you make a mistake that I or anyone else could have handled better?
That's not how this game works. The whole game is based around hilarious/dramatic circumstances/accidents/threats and crew interaction.


Should we just remove toxins from the game just in case someone accidentally kills an innocent. May aswell remove atmos, chemistry, viro and the SM too?

kayozz wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:30 pm For all we know the Cap might have panicked or thought he had enough time to flush it down disposals or may not know how to properly interact with bombs or how to dissasemble them.

He knew enough to know it was a bomb and to get rid of it immediately. Disposals doesn't automatically get rid of stuff unless it's set up to, though; that bomb still would have gone off in a potentially populated area no matter how much time was left.

Should I judge you when you make a mistake that I or anyone else could have handled better?

With my ridiculous amount of playtime, making simple mistakes like this? Yes. I'd expect everyone to publicly judge me.

The whole game is based around hilarious/dramatic circumstances/accidents/threats and crew interaction.

The best entertainment we get out of a bomb going off in the wrong place is a lot of deadchat salt and a called shuttle, the latter of which entertains nobody by itself- especially if the revolution's still active.

Should we just remove toxins from the game just in case someone accidentally kills an innocent. May aswell remove atmos, chemistry, viro and the SM too?

I agree with one of those removals in particular, but no, I never suggested this. I have a grudge against virology.
I'm just one of those weird people who think that the captain should be held to a higher standard and, while they might not need to know how to make a bomb, should at least know the basics of how they work enough to try and toss it out of the nearest airlock instead of keeping it on the station.

Frankly this is really fucking funny and no one should get punished for this. Both players acted within their own character motives and sure dude should had maybe just used a remote instead of a timer but theres no fun in playing perfectly within the meta same goes for playing perfectly in the rules. If anything its the captains fault for not disarming it properly and if it didn't blow up a head rev I feel like we would see the captain appealing this one instead.

people are acting as if this is a huge deal. it’s just a note to remind the player that if they make a bomb and toss it out blindly with a timer then they carry some of the responsibility.

the situation is hilarious and i think that the note should be edited to reflect that it’s VERY funny and in the spirit of the game. other than that i think it is reasonable to place notes on people that inadvertently bomb their own teammates to kingdom come. lol

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:25 pm people are acting as if this is a huge deal. it’s just a note to remind the player that if they make a bomb and toss it out blindly with a timer then they carry some of the responsibility.

the situation is hilarious and i think that the note should be edited to reflect that it’s VERY funny and in the spirit of the game. other than that i think it is reasonable to place notes on people that inadvertently bomb their own teammates to kingdom come. lol

No, notes are a punishment and always indicate that the noted behaviour is unacceptable and that you will get punished more severely for repeats.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:27 pm

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:25 pm people are acting as if this is a huge deal. it’s just a note to remind the player that if they make a bomb and toss it out blindly with a timer then they carry some of the responsibility.

the situation is hilarious and i think that the note should be edited to reflect that it’s VERY funny and in the spirit of the game. other than that i think it is reasonable to place notes on people that inadvertently bomb their own teammates to kingdom come. lol

No, notes are a punishment and always indicate that the noted behaviour is unacceptable and that you will get punished more severely for repeats.

yes and i hope to god we make sure players arent making it a habit to blow their teammates to kingdom come. even if i think it’s strikingly hilarious. if we don’t note people the first time they make a mistake like this then that means we are banning them

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:29 pm

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:27 pm

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 10:25 pm people are acting as if this is a huge deal. it’s just a note to remind the player that if they make a bomb and toss it out blindly with a timer then they carry some of the responsibility.

the situation is hilarious and i think that the note should be edited to reflect that it’s VERY funny and in the spirit of the game. other than that i think it is reasonable to place notes on people that inadvertently bomb their own teammates to kingdom come. lol

No, notes are a punishment and always indicate that the noted behaviour is unacceptable and that you will get punished more severely for repeats.

yes and i hope to god we make sure players arent making it a habit to blow their teammates to kingdom come. even if i think it’s strikingly hilarious. if we don’t note people the first time they make a mistake like this then that means we are banning them

They didn't even do that. The captain blew up the revs.

I always thought the "you are responsible for the bombs you placed" thing was more in the line of "If you put a bomb in a populated place and end up killing 20 people when you were trying to get a single person, then that's on you." or "If you leave a maxcap on a desk and a clown comes by and blows it up that's your fault." This is an absolutely baffling note. I had to do a double take because I thought it was a case where someone teamkilled their own team intentionally and not that the Captain reverse uno carded their bomb. (in admittedly the most reckless way possible but it's 100% what I would have done while panicking) Noting the captain for reckless behavior and unintentionally bombing loyalist crew would have made more sense (but still would have been stupid)

Is something in the water that is making the admins/headmins are give out absolutely absurd notes/bans and then taking one business week to respond to them when they are 100% open and shut? These last two months have felt chock full of stupid notes and bans that are peak IC issue.

Sometimes you just die because you were in the wrong spot. It happens, it sucks, but sometimes you literally could not have done anything more correctly, and you still die.

The idea that you are responsible for what the person you are attacking does with the bomb is quite baffling. Would they also have been responsible if they put the bomb on the ground and the captain picked it up and put it in disposals?

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 11:23 pm The idea that you are responsible for what the person you are attacking does with the bomb is quite baffling. Would they also have been responsible if they put the bomb on the ground and the captain picked it up and put it in disposals?

Yeah, the captain was literally a target here, and foiled the attack by flushing it. How is this a rulebreak for anyone involved (except maybe the captain, who sent a huge bomb on a roller coaster ride *back* through the station, and even then, come on)

Another trash tier response. Don't these admins think what their replies even mean?

This one just means bombing isn't allowed on Manual even as an antag.

this note has some true ss13 spirit

it’s always hilarious when everybody makes the wrong choices

This entire situation honestly sounds hilarious I'm sad there was a note involved

My usual opinion of bombs is 'if it goes wicked bad, it should be on your head when it does', because bombs are kind of that powerful, you should maybe think twice before using them and their use should be more strictly moderated than other methods of grand sabotage. That's maybe contradicting my previous opinions of letting things go wicked bad sometimes, but I was playing in a period where people suicide bombed antags for some pretty unhinged reasons, regardless of collateral, because of how hard they beat out threats in an instant, and bombs have only become stronger since then. They can be a bit...antifun if taken too extremes. All things in moderation.

However, I also believe in the 'if its funny its fine' rule and I think the captain flushing a bomb into the trash is hilariously funny for how well it worked out for them.

I am also understanding of admins being overworked in a situation where they are flying solo. I've also been there. But that's why appeals exist if things maybe panned out poorly.

I think maybe this is where discussion methodology is important in an investigation. If the person is being contradictory, what questions are you asking, and what answers are you expecting? Are they trying to mislead you, or are you asking the wrong questions? Are you leading the questions, or keeping it broad enough to let them fill in? Arryou being accusatory or are you addressing someone neutrally. Is it possible for them to have gained information after the incident but before the bwoink (like the bomb being in medbay at the point of detonation, which seems impossible for him to have known like come on it's in the disposal pipes those have to circle the whole station and nobody could estimate those exact timings).

I have to wonder how Harricross is going about this process. And this is something I especially relate too, as I had a known habit of being almost inquisitorial in my admin conduct that made people genuinely think I was being rude towards them. You just don't know how much tone matters here.

The physical comedy of a captain seeing a literal ticking time bomb pop out of disposals, their eyes bugging out and then slamming it back into the evil pit from whence it came in an absolute panic only for it to bomb medbay of all places is just poetic. It also ended a revs round which deserves a medal in and of itself. Can you imagine being in the position of that captain, making a reflexive decision like that, realizing what you just did, thinking you've fucked up, and then getting the revolution failed screen? It's worth eating the ban as the atmos just to be able to say you caused that story. I am in awe.

I'm gonna be honest I think this is perfectly fine. When you use an imprecise system like mail + timer for a large bomb to try and kill someone, you kinda have to take the L if that bomb goes astray and blows up someone you arent allowed to blow up.

This isn't even a ban, and the note is important reference for if the player has more incidents with hilarious bomb consequences later down the line.

edit: to be clear I think it was a clever plan from the scientist and a funny panic response from the captain with a hilarious outcome, but its worth putting a pin in the bomb history of the bomb-maker imo

If you throw a grenade at the captain and they throw it back and kill a headrev, would you be banned? Would you even be noted? I doubt it.

Honestly mailing a bomb to the hos is absolutely hilarious and it going wrong is even more hilarious. It's funny and in spirit of the game and unless the player has a history of overkill I wouldn't note the player.

mrp admin on mrp

even if it doesnt make sense to us, maybe it does to them? idk

Funny moment why ban

It's such a classic and funny ss13 moment. I see how it got noted as it was a rule break and it was factually accurate. As a headmin you can't really overturn something like that. Yet at the same time, I feel like we should be hiring the types of admins that know to let such an incident slide because it's funny.

One of the key arguments I see here is that the scientist chose an inaccurate way of delivering the bomb with the timer/disposals mailing. It's a fine line, you can't really punish someone for inoptimal gameplay. Would the captain have been punished if he threw the bomb down disposals and it killed the CE and twelve innocents instead?

I personally don't see this note as a big deal either way though. The scientist likely learned his lesson on inaccurate bombing methods as a team antag, and it shouldn't happen again. It's funny if it happens once in a while, but when it starts happening multiple times, it turns into willful negligence or deliberate grief. Personally I'd make it expire after a couple months if I were to give such a note. I also find it kinda funny that someone got a 4 day ban for a small plasma leak from a botched execution which killed no one, and a bombing which teamkilled the most important guy on the team plus six others netted a note.

A prime candidate for the secret rule, but in the end it's admin's choice. Minor note is reasonable.