Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action

[BeeSting12]

viewtopic.php?t=33489

Welcome to CS: GO ss13 edition where everyone must play to maximum effectiveness at all times. A player tries to do something interesting and gets punished for it.

Real talk, the only applicable note in this situation would've been noting anyone who said the term "metagang" IC

[CPTANT]

lmao, note for not validing hard enough.

[Armhulen]

I agree with beesting and you would be wise to join my gang

[rasonj]

This feels like the terry version of that Manuel burn chamber ban. Player does something interesting and unique with an antagonist and gets punished.

[Scriptis]

Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists ...

you aren't even obligated to stop an antagonist as sec on lrp, this note is just bleurgh

[Timberpoes]

Chatted with Kubiso internally about this earlier and it was pretty much a similar conclusion.

It totally reads like noting a player for not having an encyclopaedic knowledge of antag mechanics and for not going far enough in the direction of optimal play before releasing the antag.

I think there was some other message Kubiso was trying to communicate, but the note didn't pick the right words in the right order and as a result I think in practice it sends a totally different message that doesn't seem to fit.

Hopefully we get that little bugbear solved via the appeal.

[Indie-ana Jones]

Remove the note, this is stupid

[CPTANT]

Chatted with Kubiso internally about this earlier and it was pretty much a similar conclusion.

It totally reads like noting a player for not having an encyclopaedic knowledge of antag mechanics and for not going far enough in the direction of optimal play before releasing the antag.

I think there was some other message Kubiso was trying to communicate, but the note didn't pick the right words in the right order and as a result I think in practice it sends a totally different message that doesn't seem to fit.

Hopefully we get that little bugbear solved via the appeal.

Since when are we forced to make sure antags cant do any harm any more in the first place? The rules say we can do anything to antags, not "You can do anything that defeats them".

[Timberpoes]

Since when are we forced to make sure antags cant do any harm any more in the first place? The rules say we can do anything to antags, not "You can do anything that defeats them".

I totes agree. Catch and release is cool. It gives sec more job content, can pull antags to less powergamey strats because they won't get round removed for planting a bug on the clown's shoes, etc.

But there is a limit. For example - Just releasing every antag habitually could be its own unique form of grief that MAY catch admin attention, but it would really have to be habitual, very egregious and effectively be grief-by-proxy. Didn't sound like this is what was happening here, though?

[GPeckman]

There is something deeply, deeply ironic about giving a heretic a phobia, and I love it.

[Kendrickorium]

wow thats.. really bad

[Bawhoppennn]

Shitty ban, this is why we should mend the schism between LRP and MRP with a middleground ruleset: would avoid Sybil becoming enforced frag-the-antags ruleset, and Manuel being release-the-antags ruleset

Don't @ me

[AwkwardStereo]

Shitty ban...

Ban type: Note

i haven't read the whole thread but it wasn't a ban

[RedBaronFlyer]

I'm kinda confused by the note because Manuel security constantly does the catch-and-release thing (with a tracker implanted), even with heretics. The beepsky smash overdose causing someone to develop a phobia to security was something I never knew, and it's kinda funny.

[Armhulen]

Shitty ban, this is why we should mend the schism between LRP and MRP with a middleground ruleset: would avoid Sybil becoming enforced frag-the-antags ruleset, and Manuel being release-the-antags ruleset

Don't @ me

Baw... ban, bro??

[Bawhoppennn]

I don't have the time to read the appeals I just go by what other people said in the peanut

[NecromancerAnne]

Man what a creative punishment I actually love it.

I really hope there isn't an enforced method of antagonist control by security, that would be the absolute worst. Even if an antag like heretics can become stun immune, the time between then and ascension surely is still a big deal.

(Also phobias can inflict blindness which heretics can't become immune too, so it is actually a pretty good long term safety net if medical is also playing ball)

[RedBaronFlyer]

Shitty ban, this is why we should mend the schism between LRP and MRP with a middleground ruleset: would avoid Sybil becoming enforced frag-the-antags ruleset, and Manuel being release-the-antags ruleset

Don't @ me

Baw... ban, bro??

I don't have the time to read the appeals I just go by what other people said in the peanut

[BrolyButterfingers]

I'm kinda confused by the note because Manuel security constantly does the catch-and-release thing (with a tracker implanted), even with heretics. The beepsky smash overdose causing someone to develop a phobia to security was something I never knew, and it's kinda funny.

Hell I do catch-and-release without a tracker pretty regularly on Manuel

[saprasam]

this ba- note is what happens when you treat the game as TTT

[ekaterina]

Are we going to need a headmin precedent for "you can't note people who didn't actually break any rules"?

[Kubisopplay]

I will only said that Timber was right in what he posted here, and thats all. The message and intent I wanted to make the note for didnt come across.

[Annihilite111]

I will only said that Timber was right in what he posted here, and thats all. The message and intent I wanted to make the note for didnt come across.

I still don't understand what the message was supposed to be.

[TheLoLSwat]

I will only said that Timber was right in what he posted here, and thats all. The message and intent I wanted to make the note for didnt come across.

sucks this appeal isnt a bit longer so you can deny it out of spite :(

[Bawhoppennn]

Shitty ban, this is why we should mend the schism between LRP and MRP with a middleground ruleset: would avoid Sybil becoming enforced frag-the-antags ruleset, and Manuel being release-the-antags ruleset

Don't @ me

Baw... ban, bro??

I don't have the time to read the appeals I just go by what other people said in the peanut

LOL that's funny

To be truthful though, some people take these peanut threads way too seriously

[conrad]

Imagine you're a new player engineer, you set up the SM according to the Wiki witk the default pumps, excited since this is quite fun and as yo-
BWOINK
Kubisopplay: Hey, got a minute?

[Kubisopplay]

Imagine you're a new player engineer, you set up the SM according to the Wiki witk the default pumps, excited since this is quite fun and as yo-
BWOINK
Kubisopplay: Hey, got a minute?

Okay, let's not do a slippery slope about new people, because they usually get a tutorial when they fuck something up. Lukas is defo not new

[conrad]

Imagine you're a new player engineer, you set up the SM according to the Wiki witk the default pumps, excited since this is quite fun and as yo-
BWOINK
Kubisopplay: Hey, got a minute?

Okay, let's not do a slippery slope about new people, because they usually get a tutorial when they fuck something up. Lukas is defo not new

Are you implying you would bwoink an experienced engineer using the default pumps and pipes setup on the SM?

[CPTANT]

There is this very weird dual standard where making the supermatter nigh impossible to sabotage is fine, but making it harder to plasmaflood is powergaming.

[Kubisopplay]

Imagine you're a new player engineer, you set up the SM according to the Wiki witk the default pumps, excited since this is quite fun and as yo-
BWOINK
Kubisopplay: Hey, got a minute?

Okay, let's not do a slippery slope about new people, because they usually get a tutorial when they fuck something up. Lukas is defo not new

Are you implying you would bwoink an experienced engineer using the default pumps and pipes setup on the SM?

I'd just be disappointed

[kieth4]

To be fair to Kubisopplay, I've fucked up the sm plenty of times and he's always just laughed at me. I don't feel that it's fair to make that comparison rlly.

[conrad]

To be fair to Kubisopplay, I've fucked up the sm plenty of times and he's always just laughed at me. I don't feel that it's fair to make that comparison rlly.

I hope that's true. Terry right now feels like a crapshoot where you can get bwoinked from out of pocket shit while griefers play NRP just fine.

[Kubisopplay]

To be fair to Kubisopplay, I've fucked up the sm plenty of times and he's always just laughed at me. I don't feel that it's fair to make that comparison rlly.

I hope that's true. Terry right now feels like a crapshoot where you can get bwoinked from out of pocket shit while griefers play NRP just fine.

If you go only by the peanuts every server feels like worst parts of fulp and goon squared

[ekaterina]

Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action

This peanut's title is just... chef's kiss.

this is why we should mend the schism between LRP and MRP with a middleground ruleset: would avoid Sybil becoming enforced frag-the-antags ruleset, and Manuel being release-the-antags ruleset

Ducks already tried that and he got lynched in the court of public opinion.

I really hope there isn't an enforced method of antagonist control by security, that would be the absolute worst. Even if an antag like heretics can become stun immune, the time between then and ascension surely is still a big deal.

Agreed. There shouldn't be a specific enforced method of control, but that a method of control should be used should be enforced.

[CPTANT]

Traitors are already getting super tame on LRP, it's because progtot incentives doing things nobody notices for telecrystals. The only influential antags are now the conversion antags or nuke ops.

[datorangebottle]

There is this very weird dual standard where making the supermatter nigh impossible to sabotage is fine, but making it harder to plasmaflood is powergaming.

hint: one of these things has a tangible benefit to the station aside from futureproofing, and the other does not.

[TheLoLSwat]

Are you implying you would bwoink an experienced engineer using the default pumps and pipes setup on the SM?

i only use default pumps and pipes whenever i set up SM


if it runs, it runs and if it breaks, ill fix it

[BeeSting12]

Kieth4 nonoptimal ranked play nearly results in team loss, facing disciplinary action

This peanut's title is just... chef's kiss.

thanks <3

[CPTANT]

There is this very weird dual standard where making the supermatter nigh impossible to sabotage is fine, but making it harder to plasmaflood is powergaming.

hint: one of these things has a tangible benefit to the station aside from futureproofing, and the other does not.

Not really though, default setup provides enough power for everything.

[datorangebottle]

There is this very weird dual standard where making the supermatter nigh impossible to sabotage is fine, but making it harder to plasmaflood is powergaming.

hint: one of these things has a tangible benefit to the station aside from futureproofing, and the other does not.

Not really though, default setup provides enough power for everything.

laughs in "every assistant building a maint base with 5+ machines in it, chemistry building a huge factory, botany powering up all their hydro trays, and the HFR"

[iwishforducks]

i didnt post or form an opinion because i figured the note would be removed. i get why they placed the note but ultimately kieth is correct in their whole “optimal play” thing. glad to see that kubis saw eye to eye. or maybe theyre being held against their will by timber. who knows.

[Bawhoppennn]

this is why we should mend the schism between LRP and MRP with a middleground ruleset: would avoid Sybil becoming enforced frag-the-antags ruleset, and Manuel being release-the-antags ruleset

Ducks already tried that and he got lynched in the court of public opinion.

I am very disappointed in you

[iwishforducks]

this is why we should mend the schism between LRP and MRP with a middleground ruleset: would avoid Sybil becoming enforced frag-the-antags ruleset, and Manuel being release-the-antags ruleset

Ducks already tried that and he got lynched in the court of public opinion.

I am very disappointed in you

next election cycle i plan on running on that instead. i need to iron out the edges on it.

[Rohen_Tahir]

There is this very weird dual standard where making the supermatter nigh impossible to sabotage is fine, but making it harder to plasmaflood is powergaming.

hint: one of these things has a tangible benefit to the station aside from futureproofing, and the other does not.

Not really though, default setup provides enough power for everything.

laughs in "every assistant building a maint base with 5+ machines in it, chemistry building a huge factory, botany powering up all their hydro trays, and the HFR"

That's a really awful name for a language

[TheLoLSwat]

There is this very weird dual standard where making the supermatter nigh impossible to sabotage is fine, but making it harder to plasmaflood is powergaming.

hint: one of these things has a tangible benefit to the station aside from futureproofing, and the other does not.

Not really though, default setup provides enough power for everything.

laughs in "every assistant building a maint base with 5+ machines in it, chemistry building a huge factory, botany powering up all their hydro trays, and the HFR"

That's a really awful name for a language

dont be rude, im sure its a wonderful language

[toemas]

There is this very weird dual standard where making the supermatter nigh impossible to sabotage is fine, but making it harder to plasmaflood is powergaming.

it will never not be hilarious to me that theres literally like two valves that connect the plasma supply DIRECTLY to the air that everyone breathes and removing it will get you in trouble
Its a fine rule but its just really comical if you think about it from an IC perspective

[toemas]

There is this very weird dual standard where making the supermatter nigh impossible to sabotage is fine, but making it harder to plasmaflood is powergaming.

Also this isnt really true. The only thing you *arent* allowed to do is remove the pipe or cut the cameras or whatever because its basically metagaming malf AI. You can totally cool the wasteloop, preemptively adjust the air alarms, or just pump the distro with a fuckton of oxy to make it impossible to flood. Anything that improves/optimizes the distro and waste loop (your job) is going to make plasmaflooding harder