/tg/Station 13

My God. I had a cringe round on Terry. Near round start, some shitters call out "AI malf" on comms the moment they notice they can see maintenance with camera consoles.

They point out x-ray like they're playing Among Us. They're so fucking excited that they found a pattern to recognise an antagonist and immediately call it out, with zero attempt at roleplay. This is literal metagaming using metaknowledge, and it's disgusting.

I am very disappointed in Terry. What a boring round. "AI malf" and stuff related to that was the ONLY thing said and talked about in comms for the entire round. "Oooh x-ray cameras, AI bought the x-ray teehee I found the antag'nn'nn"" dhrvdvdjdvhhsvjczabrbjWjvsbwvxhsvwhgvshebdivgdhsywvvzvSdhqud

TRUE, this is why i have malf ai turned off.

When I am AI I upgrade all the cameras with gas analyzers. It gives cams X-ray, and it’s fun when somebody calls me malf.

vect0r wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:53 am When I am AI I upgrade all the cameras with gas analyzers. It gives cams X-ray, and it’s fun when somebody calls me malf.

Something new to do as engineer, then ahelp when someone says AI malf.

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:38 am

vect0r wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:53 am When I am AI I upgrade all the cameras with gas analyzers. It gives cams X-ray, and it’s fun when somebody calls me malf.

Something new to do as engineer, then ahelp when someone says AI malf.

Banbaiting - the cool new way to get banned!

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:46 amThey're so fucking excited that they found a pattern to recognise an antagonist and immediately call it out, with zero attempt at roleplay. This is literal metagaming using metaknowledge, and it's disgusting.

Be careful what you wish for. We don't want tgstation to turn into bee - if you do, you're better off going there instead of ruining the experience here for everyone else.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:48 am

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:38 am

vect0r wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:53 am When I am AI I upgrade all the cameras with gas analyzers. It gives cams X-ray, and it’s fun when somebody calls me malf.

Something new to do as engineer, then ahelp when someone says AI malf.

Banbaiting - the cool new way to get banned!

That's not banbaiting. That is upgrading cameras.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:48 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:46 amThey're so fucking excited that they found a pattern to recognise an antagonist and immediately call it out, with zero attempt at roleplay. This is literal metagaming using metaknowledge, and it's disgusting.

Be careful what you wish for. We don't want tgstation to turn into bee - if you do, you're better off going there instead of ruining the experience here for everyone else.

Your opinion on what tgstation is supposed to be is worth less than nothing, I hope you stub your toe and step on a lego tongiht.

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:31 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:48 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:46 amThey're so fucking excited that they found a pattern to recognise an antagonist and immediately call it out, with zero attempt at roleplay. This is literal metagaming using metaknowledge, and it's disgusting.

Be careful what you wish for. We don't want tgstation to turn into bee - if you do, you're better off going there instead of ruining the experience here for everyone else.

Your opinion on what tgstation is supposed to be is worth less than nothing, I hope you stub your toe and step on a lego tongiht.

Savage as hell, but you're right. Playing this game like TTT makes it suck, and malf AI, no, any antag, being immediately valid because of some small inconsistency is kinda sad and what makes rounds so boring.

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:31 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:48 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:46 amThey're so fucking excited that they found a pattern to recognise an antagonist and immediately call it out, with zero attempt at roleplay. This is literal metagaming using metaknowledge, and it's disgusting.

Be careful what you wish for. We don't want tgstation to turn into bee - if you do, you're better off going there instead of ruining the experience here for everyone else.

Your opinion on what tgstation is supposed to be is worth less than nothing, I hope you stub your toe and step on a lego tongiht.

As opposed to the opinion of someone who doesn't even play the game?
I'd tell you to wander into science maintenance alone but that would require you to have BYOND installed.

AlamoTurtle wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:41 pm Playing this game like TTT makes it suck, and malf AI, no, any antag, being immediately valid because of some small inconsistency is kinda sad and what makes rounds so boring.

I see this as a code issue, if an issue at all. Expecting players to ignore information they got in the round (not, for example, in metacomms or as ghosts) is dumb. The solution is to make the player just not be able to see this AI power. Either that or for the AI to git gud and not use powers that give it away while being stealthy.

You know what's funny? You can see maint if you go to a camera and have a line of sight from the camera to maint that gets blocked, by something like a door (the vision doesn't get updated)
Only works on camera consoles

Or I'm just too old and this bug got fixed

Would be good if something could be done about this, can only think of a few options really though

1) Remove the malf upgrade to cameras entirely
2) Add some fluff text to the upgrade, or to the antag roll, cautioning against this particular upgrade
3) Make cameras that see through walls a regular station (midround) event to mask when the AI does this (kinda weird from an IC perspective).
4) Make the vision upgrade only visible to the AI (I'm assuming there's some extra technical complexity to this).

As it stands though, the upgrade does largely just serve as a new malf player trap, and while the game has its fair share of "oh you died, but you learned something in the process", having your own antag toolbox turn against you and out you early in the round isn't much good for the AI player, the round, or to watch as an observer. Be nice if something could change here to divert from this outcome.

the people who cry for roleplay on here dont actually want to or like doing it, their idea of a fun round is spending an hour gossiping with their admin moth metafriends in the vacant office. by "roleplay" they mean playing the game like VRchat and aimlessly walking around talking to people and being nice and wholesome to eachother and stuff

The only way to actually enjoy /tg/station is at the expense of everyone else on the server, you guys need to understand this

You must be fun at parties.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:54 pm

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:31 pm Your opinion on what tgstation is supposed to be is worth less than nothing, I hope you stub your toe and step on a lego tonight.

As opposed to the opinion of someone who doesn't even play the game?

CoffeeDragon16 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:14 pm

lol thats not his ckey... embarrassing!

toemas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:19 pm

CoffeeDragon16 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:14 pm

lol thats not his ckey... embarrassing!

oh my god this entire time i thought they were paxil. embarassing

Ouch

I love playing sili and 5 minutes into the round i get randomly flashed and permanently round removed because my ai bought camera upgrades and then I have to explain to the ai what a massive noob bait they fell for.


This has been in the game for so long i dont care if its an oversight or not, its become an actual META that you have to play around and if you dont you and several other silicon players will be round removed without knowing what happened.



Whats worse is when the malf ai player doesnt actually learn why they got caught, Ive been wanting to make a pr that red texts the camera upgrade and a warning that says "might reveal your condition" because of how often people fall for this noob bait.



Believe it or not, not everyone knows about stuff like this and knowledge to stuff like this is one of the many things gatekeeping newer players from avoiding being outright pwn`d by older players. If you know it, older players wont pwn you, if you dont know it, youre probably gonna get robusted and im fucking sick of shit like this.

toemas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:19 pm

CoffeeDragon16 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:14 pm

lol thats not his ckey... embarrassing!

I was wondering why he was showing me some random guy's recent rounds... lmao what a fail

CoffeeDragon16 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:14 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:54 pm

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:31 pm Your opinion on what tgstation is supposed to be is worth less than nothing, I hope you stub your toe and step on a lego tonight.

As opposed to the opinion of someone who doesn't even play the game?

It says his fucking username under his profile picture you dummy.

toemas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:45 pm the people who cry for roleplay on here dont actually want to or like doing it, their idea of a fun round is spending an hour gossiping with their admin moth metafriends in the vacant office. by "roleplay" they mean playing the game like VRchat and aimlessly walking around talking to people and being nice and wholesome to eachother and stuff

The only way to actually enjoy /tg/station is at the expense of everyone else on the server, you guys need to understand this

Just round-remove all antags then complain that it's gotten boring. Surely, this is the peak of SS13, where you have to enjoy TGstation at the expense of everyone, including yourself, because the valids must be stopped. Sound logic, pal. Unfortunately, not everyone shares this view as you do, so frankly, you're wrong. Some people might enjoy your washed-down witch hunt gaming, but there are many more who do not.

AlamoTurtle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:04 pm

toemas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:45 pm the people who cry for roleplay on here dont actually want to or like doing it, their idea of a fun round is spending an hour gossiping with their admin moth metafriends in the vacant office. by "roleplay" they mean playing the game like VRchat and aimlessly walking around talking to people and being nice and wholesome to eachother and stuff

The only way to actually enjoy /tg/station is at the expense of everyone else on the server, you guys need to understand this

Just round-remove all antags then complain that it's gotten boring. Surely, this is the peak of SS13, where you have to enjoy TGstation at the expense of everyone, including yourself, because the valids must be stopped. Sound logic, pal. Unfortunately, not everyone shares this view as you do, so frankly, you're wrong. Some people might enjoy your washed-down witch hunt gaming, but there are many more who do not.

Tomas got discord banned and is now posting all of his shit takes here instead

AlamoTurtle wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:04 pm Just round-remove all antags then complain that it's gotten boring. Surely, this is the peak of SS13, where you have to enjoy TGstation at the expense of everyone, including yourself, because the valids must be stopped. Sound logic, pal.

what else would i do?

kinnebian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:59 pm Tomas got discord banned and is now posting all of his shit takes here instead

someone needs to enlighten the masses

iain0 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:57 am 4) Make the vision upgrade only visible to the AI (I'm assuming there's some extra technical complexity to this).

I took a look at the code and I wonder if this is something that should be hard forked based on how it's being accessed. Imagine that the camera console can never see the X-ray version, whereas the AI sight can. Would make sense if the AI can process that data vs the camera console can't display it to the viewer or something.

Ziiro wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:45 am

iain0 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:57 am 4) Make the vision upgrade only visible to the AI (I'm assuming there's some extra technical complexity to this).

I took a look at the code and I wonder if this is something that should be hard forked based on how it's being accessed. Imagine that the camera console can never see the X-ray version, whereas the AI sight can. Would make sense if the AI can process that data vs the camera console can't display it to the viewer or something.

It makes perfect sense that something as powerful as a malf AI can passively filter the camera feed in real time.

toemas wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:45 pm the people who cry for roleplay on here dont actually want to or like doing it, their idea of a fun round is spending an hour gossiping with their admin moth metafriends in the vacant office. by "roleplay" they mean playing the game like VRchat and aimlessly walking around talking to people and being nice and wholesome to eachother and stuff

The only way to actually enjoy /tg/station is at the expense of everyone else on the server, you guys need to understand this

Except the end result of not snitching on a malf AI doesn't translate to the players sitting around being wholesome for longer.
In fact it's the opposite of what you're claiming.
Did you actually think through what you were talking about?

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:48 am

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:38 am

vect0r wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:53 am When I am AI I upgrade all the cameras with gas analyzers. It gives cams X-ray, and it’s fun when somebody calls me malf.

Something new to do as engineer, then ahelp when someone says AI malf.

Banbaiting - the cool new way to get banned!

I was about to say something here but vect0r already said it

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:49 am Except the end result of not snitching on a malf AI doesn't translate to the players sitting around being wholesome for longer.
In fact it's the opposite of what you're claiming.
Did you actually think through what you were talking about?

it was not directed at this situation specifically. i dont read turbonerd threads

toemas wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:03 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:49 am Except the end result of not snitching on a malf AI doesn't translate to the players sitting around being wholesome for longer.
In fact it's the opposite of what you're claiming.
Did you actually think through what you were talking about?

it was not directed at this situation specifically. i dont read turbonerd threads

Word