/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33587

I feel obligated to create the peanut thread since this relates to silicons.

Remember kids, it's fine to lose.

idk if you dont want to play you dont have to play. which is why i think this ban is fine cause it’s only a silicon ban

Why appeal from something you don't like? Lol.

This one is just overflowing with salt. Embrace rule 10.

I like it when a peanut comes together and we sing kumbaya.

You obviously cannot be forced to play the game. Admins can't hold you at gunpoint and force you to play.
He should've just ghosted instead of suiciding, but he might not have known that if he's not used to silicons.
However, the admin even reminded him that he could ask the admin to offer the body to ghosts if he wanted.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:20 pm Why appeal from something you don't like? Lol.

Out of spite, or feeling you were treated unfairly? Why else?

I think enforcing law 3this way is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

suicide is a very ooc thing so I don't think it should be treated as law 3 violation. Should've informed admins before leaving their role tho.

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:42 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:03 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:42 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

They were given the option to be offered. Instead they committed suicide. Also it's funny how fucking Honda Mothra was already involved in some other fights as part of the story in this appeal. Do they do anything else other than getting into fights?

yeah i wonder what would have happened if the player had simply disconnected or even DNR'd before they became a borg. methinks nothing would have happened.

I don't think this appeal is about the suicide, I think it's about them wanting a ruling on how admins respond to antag check ahelps. As a player I actually prefer if the admins just press the ic issue button.

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:03 pm Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

I agree. While ghosting would've been better since it wouldn't damage the body and it could be offered up fully intact, reviving a borg is so easy that it is basically the same thing.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:08 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:03 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:42 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

They were given the option to be offered. Instead they committed suicide. Also it's funny how fucking Honda Mothra was already involved in some other fights as part of the story in this appeal. Do they do anything else other than getting into fights?

So? Why are we punishing players for using a different way of exiting the round just cuz it goes against in game justifications. As striders said leaving the round is very ooc as is and I don't think law 3 is made to ban people who dare suicide as silicon. Its to protect them from lame suicide orders from others.

Striders13 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:56 pm suicide is a very ooc thing so I don't think it should be treated as law 3 violation. Should've informed admins before leaving their role tho.

Suicide is a OOC verb, as a policy thread says somewhere, where you cannot use it to avoid law changes, so you should be able to do it to power off.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:08 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:03 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:42 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

They were given the option to be offered. Instead they committed suicide. Also it's funny how fucking Honda Mothra was already involved in some other fights as part of the story in this appeal. Do they do anything else other than getting into fights?

I don't like my static being offered to other people.

rasonj wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:16 pm I don't think this appeal is about the suicide, I think it's about them wanting a ruling on how admins respond to antag check ahelps. As a player I actually prefer if the admins just press the ic issue button.

holy shit I totally glanced over the fact that Thunder never even told the person it was "Valid"- just that it was "Handled"

this shouldn't be an appeal this should be an admin complaint (though I don't even think you could make an admin complaint since it's a "ban")

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:18 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:08 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:03 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:42 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

They were given the option to be offered. Instead they committed suicide. Also it's funny how fucking Honda Mothra was already involved in some other fights as part of the story in this appeal. Do they do anything else other than getting into fights?

So? Why are we punishing players for using a different way of exiting the round just cuz it goes against in game justifications. As striders said leaving the round is very ooc as is and I don't think law 3 is made to ban people who dare suicide as silicon. Its to protect them from lame suicide orders from others.

Suicide is the most loud way to go, and violates silicon law. It hurts the roleplaying environment, and makes it harder for admins to offer the body without interacting with the round. At least ghosting doesn't violate silicon policy, and would make the borg look like it was experience a software issue instead of fucking suiciding like an NRPer ignoring laws.

vect0r wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:20 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:08 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:03 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:42 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

They were given the option to be offered. Instead they committed suicide. Also it's funny how fucking Honda Mothra was already involved in some other fights as part of the story in this appeal. Do they do anything else other than getting into fights?

I don't like my static being offered to other people.

It was a borg body. Who gives a shit? You shouldn't care about your static that much. Also double post lmao get owned.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:26 pm
Suicide is the most loud way to go, and violates silicon law. It hurts the roleplaying environment, and makes it harder for admins to offer the body without interacting with the round. At least ghosting doesn't violate silicon policy, and would make the borg look like it was experience a software issue instead of fucking suiciding like an NRPer ignoring laws.

from my understanding of the game, you can still offer the body and then aheal it. i know there's quirks with suiciding but it's different with borg suicides as they don't gib themselves (unlike most humanoid suicides). suiciding could still very easily be roleplayed as a software reset or something.

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:30 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:26 pm
Suicide is the most loud way to go, and violates silicon law. It hurts the roleplaying environment, and makes it harder for admins to offer the body without interacting with the round. At least ghosting doesn't violate silicon policy, and would make the borg look like it was experience a software issue instead of fucking suiciding like an NRPer ignoring laws.

from my understanding of the game, you can still offer the body and then aheal it. i know there's quirks with suiciding but it's different with borg suicides as they don't gib themselves (unlike most humanoid suicides). suiciding could still very easily be roleplayed as a software reset or something.

Yeah, they not killing themself, they are "powering down".

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:03 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:42 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

Wait, they used a verb? I was led to understand they took IC actions to kill themselves.

If they used a verb, that's admin being a dumdum.

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:51 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:03 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:42 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

Wait, they used a verb? I was led to understand they took IC actions to kill themselves.

If they used a verb, that's admin being a dumdum.

looks like a suicide verb to me? Although I dont go log diving so I could be wrong

Striders13 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:56 pm suicide is a very ooc thing so I don't think it should be treated as law 3 violation. Should've informed admins before leaving their role tho.

Striders with the correct Opinion right here +1

In my opinion law 3 is being used way too weirdly in the rules, since every death (intended or unintended) would be a law 3 violation if you look hard enough

No idea why this is so hard for everyone. Law 3 enforcement is there so not every shitter suicides the moment they are forcefully turned into a borg. If you really have to leave than you Ahelp and offer the role. It's that simple.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:18 pm No idea why this is so hard for everyone. Law 3 enforcement is there so not every shitter suicides the moment they are forcefully turned into a borg. If you really have to leave than you Ahelp and offer the role. It's that simple.

Then why are you allowed to exit the round the other ways without A helping?

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:24 pm

CPTANT wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:18 pm No idea why this is so hard for everyone. Law 3 enforcement is there so not every shitter suicides the moment they are forcefully turned into a borg. If you really have to leave than you Ahelp and offer the role. It's that simple.

Then why are you allowed to exit the round the other ways without A helping?

Because laws change? Literal suicide laws aren't that uncommon for antags that want to get rid of the AI.

Thunder did nothing wrong, but this seems relevant.

HomoBird wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 4:10 pm And about the last thing, about Thunder12345 offering me a way out without rule breaking, when Thunder said "I'm offering you up", what I understood is he was giving me another role that was not a SIlicon, because after all i'm a Spanish talker and "Offering you up" can translate to "Te ofrezco algo" which in direct english would mean "I offer you something", then I said no and that would rather kill myself, because I didn't want to play anything else that was not my original character, then when he said I was rule breaking the Law 3 I found it stupid because I didn't get if I didn't want to play any other role what was the problem with not playing at all.

Believable enough explanation for him refusing to be offered up. As for whether or not it's okay to suicide verb if you get borged I'd say it isn't, play the hand you're dealt or ask an admin to offer you. It sets a bad precedent to allow someone to get away with just killing themselves if they don't want to play as a subverted borg. It's unfair to the other player who is risking getting lynched by subverting a silicon. If your response to becoming a silicon is to suicide then a silicon ban is just fine since it's a role the player clearly is not interested in.

As for continuing to salt after being told the situation was "handled," our guy here needs to calm down. At least wait until the round is over and you've looked over the logs yourself before you decide the admins dealt with the situation poorly.

when you sign up for roles like silicon or command roles, you're signing up for the responsibility. but being forced into those roles is an entirely different story. i don't see why we should forcefully give players obligations and then punish them for not following it. you guys are drawing ties to rules about players signing up for roles and then suiciding when this is clearly not the case.

also i dont see the difference between ghosting, suiciding, and simply walking away from your computer: it's all the same. if you recontextualize the story into "I DNR'd before becoming a borg" or "I simply walked away from my computer" then the player would receive no punishment. that doesn't make any sense.

the ban itself is whatever. i think we can all agree on that. to me this person is treating it less like an appeal and more of an admin complaint: and there's some genuine merit to that. they thought they were being griefed, and then were told it was "handled" as opposed to "IC issue" or "it's valid". the subtext that was given to him was that it wasn't valid. and then they were harrowed in tickets for not wanting to play as a borg.

it seems like there was some genuine miscommunication here and i hope they can reach an understanding.

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:01 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:51 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:03 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:42 pm

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:35 pm I think enforcing law 3 is dumb tbh. Who gives a shit if someone suicides as a silicon cuz they are salty

It's a law. Following your laws is in the rules. You're a borg, you follow your laws. You don't wanna play a borg, you ghost, not suicide.

Banning someone because they used a different verb to exit the round seems over zealous to me especially when the person was forced in the role.

Wait, they used a verb? I was led to understand they took IC actions to kill themselves.

If they used a verb, that's admin being a dumdum.

suicide.PNG

looks like a suicide verb to me? Although I dont go log diving so I could be wrong

Oh yeah, if that's the case there's no reason to ban, especially since this is a midround borg. It's not like 50k iron is gonna cripple everyone's fun.

This is an interesting situation. I have don't know what the right answer is.

Timber's quote of rule 6 bothers me. If this is how admins are encouraged to respond then it's no wonder Homo is (rightfully) angered by the ruling. Simply saying "This is an IC issue" instead of "Handled" would have been a lot better and professional.

Fren256 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:36 am Timber's quote of rule 6 bothers me. If this is how admins are encouraged to respond then it's no wonder Homo is (rightfully) angered by the ruling. Simply saying "This is an IC issue" instead of "Handled" would have been a lot better and professional.

How about you don't try to use ahelps as a way to find out who is an antag or not? Admins will admin the issue, and the information is absolutely none of your fucking business. You don't need to know anything.

I was having a fight with Mercy and Max Buktus because one of them bombed me earlier in the round when Ryker Roy out of nowhere appears and starts to saw me with a Medical Saw, leading to one of my legs being removed, I shove him back and saw him a bit too until im dragged away, he keeps on chasing me and keeps sawing me until my other leg is removed and then killed, rather than leaving me on MedBay to be revived he decides to force borg me for no reason at all

I mean this is literally as griefy as it gets, either Ryker was an antagonist or a griefer.

What would you even say in this situation without betraying Ryker's role? Even "handled" is revealing if Ryker was allowed to continue with borging.

I'm fairly confident sinful is right, borgs aren't forced to continue to play. Technically you're not even forced to be a borg, you don't have to enter the MMI.

I think the reason he was being forced to play the role was because of antag involvement.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:49 am

Fren256 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:36 am Timber's quote of rule 6 bothers me. If this is how admins are encouraged to respond then it's no wonder Homo is (rightfully) angered by the ruling. Simply saying "This is an IC issue" instead of "Handled" would have been a lot better and professional.

How about you don't try to use ahelps as a way to find out who is an antag or not? Admins will admin the issue, and the information is absolutely none of your fucking business. You don't need to know anything.

I'm encouraging to be more polite, not to waste admins' time with useless ahelps. Obviously if you ahelp every single IC conflict you get into then you're just a crybaby and will get you in trouble for spam. Even then, it is to be expected that the person ahelping is at the very least annoyed, so those types of responses really don't help to defuse the situation.

I mean being forced into a borg sucks, but it also sucks if the traitor had a plan for the borg then the borg randomly suicides. It kinda screws with the round and a more easily better way to go around this was to offer them up and change their name if they get a ghost to play as them (thus fixing the whole “I don’t want someone playing as my static” deal). However instead of doing that they straight up suicided. Quite a frustrating option, they didn’t even say so before they fell off.

The ban could have been more soft, in my opinion. But however the good thing about this is that it’s a silicon ban. It’s basically a solution to being forced borged. Just I’m unsure why they are appealing this if they clearly don’t want to play silicon. I’d imagine that it’s for clearing up their record.

Overall, two sides to the coin here.

Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:08 pm I mean being forced into a borg sucks, but it also sucks if the traitor had a plan for the borg then the borg randomly suicides. It kinda screws with the round and a more easily better way to go around this was to offer them up and change their name if they get a ghost to play as them (thus fixing the whole “I don’t want someone playing as my static” deal). However instead of doing that they straight up suicided. Quite a frustrating option, they didn’t even say so before they fell off.

The ban could have been more soft, in my opinion. But however the good thing about this is that it’s a silicon ban. It’s basically a solution to being forced borged. Just I’m unsure why they are appealing this if they clearly don’t want to play silicon. I’d imagine that it’s for clearing up their record.

Overall, two sides to the coin here.

the thing is, the player in question had no real reason to believe the player was antagonistic. all that happened was that they were griefing. when they ahelped all they got back was "handled"- and there was still zero reason to believe the roboticist was an antagonist. they were also given no directives, other than to do their job i think. idk i haven't looked at the logs.

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:12 pm

Epicgamer545 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 5:08 pm I mean being forced into a borg sucks, but it also sucks if the traitor had a plan for the borg then the borg randomly suicides. It kinda screws with the round and a more easily better way to go around this was to offer them up and change their name if they get a ghost to play as them (thus fixing the whole “I don’t want someone playing as my static” deal). However instead of doing that they straight up suicided. Quite a frustrating option, they didn’t even say so before they fell off.

The ban could have been more soft, in my opinion. But however the good thing about this is that it’s a silicon ban. It’s basically a solution to being forced borged. Just I’m unsure why they are appealing this if they clearly don’t want to play silicon. I’d imagine that it’s for clearing up their record.

Overall, two sides to the coin here.

the thing is, the player in question had no real reason to believe the player was antagonistic. all that happened was that they were griefing. when they ahelped all they got back was "handled"- and there was still zero reason to believe the roboticist was an antagonist. they were also given no directives, other than to do their job i think. idk i haven't looked at the logs.

Now there are three sides to the coin