/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:14 pm**

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33698

It was bound to happen, eventually.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:51 pm**

I'm not really happy with this ban.

I know that the sheer level of notes and bans acquired is what made this situation a perma, but even with that in consideration, I don't think it's enough to stick. As you say, bound to happen eventually, but that's why I think the patience should've been had.

Most people DON'T know what e-magging shield sats does. I certainly don't. And there's an argument to be made that while a lot of e-mag things are bad (Beepsky, Medibots, etc) some are Good Actually (chemistry, bar).

Be interesting to see how it goes, I suppose. If it DOES get overturned, I do expect we'll be back here in a week.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:54 pm**

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:51 pm I'm not really happy with this ban.

I know that the sheer level of notes and bans acquired is what made this situation a perma, but even with that in consideration, I don't think it's enough to stick. As you say, bound to happen eventually, but that's why I think the patience should've been had.

Most people DON'T know what e-magging shield sats does. I certainly don't. And there's an argument to be made that while a lot of e-mag things are bad (Beepsky, Medibots, etc) some are Good Actually (chemistry, bar).

Be interesting to see how it goes, I suppose. If it DOES get overturned, I do expect we'll be back here in a week.

It might not stick if he incidentally got an emag from someone dropping it or finding it, but since he actively went out of his way to grab it from the brig to do this I think he's probably pretty boned.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:58 pm**

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:51 pm I'm not really happy with this ban.

I know that the sheer level of notes and bans acquired is what made this situation a perma, but even with that in consideration, I don't think it's enough to stick. As you say, bound to happen eventually, but that's why I think the patience should've been had.

Most people DON'T know what e-magging shield sats does. I certainly don't. And there's an argument to be made that while a lot of e-mag things are bad (Beepsky, Medibots, etc) some are Good Actually (chemistry, bar).

Be interesting to see how it goes, I suppose. If it DOES get overturned, I do expect we'll be back here in a week.

Regardless of how this resolves... sigh... it's time for another one of THOSE prs.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:01 pm**

Okay hold on. HOLD ON. IF YOU SEE THIS MESSAGE WHEN YOU EMAG THE METEOR SHIELDS
to_chat(user, span_notice("You access the satellite's debug mode, increasing the chance of meteor strikes."))
I THINK IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS WHAT EMAGGING IT DOES.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:01 pm**

BrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:54 pm It might not stick if he incidentally got an emag from someone dropping it or finding it, but since he actively went out of his way to grab it from the brig to do this I think he's probably pretty boned.

Quite possibly. But "Permaban: E-magged something and said he didn't know what it did" feels pretty shaky.

Then again, CE steals Contraband from the Brig and then uses it on things without knowing what it does is a bit stickier. As I said. Be interesting to see, and we'll be here again next week if it doesn't.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:58 pm Regardless of how this resolves... sigh... it's time for another one of THOSE prs.

Which one this time?

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:04 pm**

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:51 pm Most people DON'T know what e-magging shield sats does. I certainly don't. And there's an argument to be made that while a lot of e-mag things are bad (Beepsky, Medibots, etc) some are Good Actually (chemistry, bar).

I think the Kicker is this line

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:50 pm however, it was not to my knowledge that emagging the shield sats actually still caused meteors to have a higher chance of happening, I thought it was old code due to the outdated wiki.

What? He read the wiki but thought it was probably just wrong? For no reason? What did he think it would do otherwise? He thought they did in the past but didn't anymore because?

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:05 pm**

Sightld2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:04 pm
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:51 pm Most people DON'T know what e-magging shield sats does. I certainly don't. And there's an argument to be made that while a lot of e-mag things are bad (Beepsky, Medibots, etc) some are Good Actually (chemistry, bar).
I think the Kicker is this line

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:50 pm however, it was not to my knowledge that emagging the shield sats actually still caused meteors to have a higher chance of happening, I thought it was old code due to the outdated wiki.
What? He read the wiki but thought it was probably just wrong? For no reason? What did he think it would do otherwise? He thought they did in the past but didn't anymore because?

Oh my god I missed that part, okay yeah this is dead in the water, holy shit.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:05 pm**

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:01 pm
Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:58 pm Regardless of how this resolves... sigh... it's time for another one of THOSE prs.
Which one this time?

Well, I was GOING to clarify with an examine what the emagged sat was doing but whooop de doo it plainly says exactly what it does when you emag it

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:07 pm**

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:05 pm
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:01 pm
Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:58 pm Regardless of how this resolves... sigh... it's time for another one of THOSE prs.
Which one this time?
Well, I was GOING to clarify with an examine what the emagged sat was doing but whooop de doo it plainly says exactly what it does when you emag it

This peanut is delightfully spicy already, I look forward to seeing how it's developed when I wake up.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:12 pm**

Lets add some more spice:

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:50 pm I would like to add that I honestly think that me emagging 2 sats rather than maias 14, wouldnt do much, I've had a look at the code, and I might be bad at maths, but out of the total shield sats that we had, 14 is more significant, yes I raised the number slightly, but it should not of impacted it as much as it comes across.@

This is the funniest part of the ban appeal because every emagged sat doubles the chances.

Code: Select all

/obj/machinery/satellite/meteor_shield/proc/change_meteor_chance(mod)
	// Update the weight of all meteor events
	for(var/datum/round_event_control/meteor_wave/meteors in SSevents.control)
		meteors.weight *= mod
	for(var/datum/round_event_control/stray_meteor/stray_meteor in SSevents.control)
		stray_meteor.weight *= mod

So chip, being the last person to emag meteor shields, quadrupled the chances AFTER all the previous chance multiplication. Which means that he did technically add more meteor spawn chance than Maias

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:17 pm**

let's say the weight to spawn meteors when an event is supposed to run is 1. when you emag, turning the sat on or off doubles or halves the weight because emagging lets you mess with the meteor spawn rate.

Maia's actions: 1 * (2^14) = 16384 weight total (what the fuck)
Chip's actions: 16384 * (2^2) = 65536 weight total (what the FUCK)

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:18 pm**

What did they even expect to happen

Emagging something has an effect, what one did they think was being applied?

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:23 pm**

Officer please I didn't mean for the [Item That Does Bad Thing] to [Do Bad Thing] when I used it on something. There was no way I could know.

The wiki told me [Item That Does Bad Thing] did [A Bad Thing] so obviously it [Does Good Thing]

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:24 pm**

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:01 pm Okay hold on. HOLD ON. IF YOU SEE THIS MESSAGE WHEN YOU EMAG THE METEOR SHIELDS
to_chat(user, span_notice("You access the satellite's debug mode, increasing the chance of meteor strikes."))
I THINK IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS WHAT EMAGGING IT DOES.

I had no message showing this.
there was also no bubbletext showing this.
Its disgustingly discrete on how it is shown to be emagged

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:25 pm**

Fren256 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:14 pm viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33698

It was bound to happen, eventually.

Thanks, Really appreciate having people just outright judge my character from an online top down space simulator, really makes me feel great about myself.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:26 pm**

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:17 pm let's say the weight to spawn meteors when an event is supposed to run is 1. when you emag, turning the sat on or off doubles or halves the weight because emagging lets you mess with the meteor spawn rate.

Maia's actions: 1 * (2^14) = 16384 weight total (what the fuck)
Chip's actions: 16384 * (2^2) = 65536 weight total (what the FUCK)

According to the code,

its expontential.
Also shown by logs, a catastrophic and other waves had already hit the station before I had even emagged the sats

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:27 pm**

Cheshify wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:23 pm Officer please I didn't mean for the [Item That Does Bad Thing] to [Do Bad Thing] when I used it on something. There was no way I could know.

The wiki told me [Item That Does Bad Thing] did [A Bad Thing] so obviously it [Does Good Thing]

Hi,
I genuinely thought the emagging the sats was a complete myth, given that, whenever there is shield sats, people dont rush emagging them all the time, as meteors, as proven, are quite round ending and force a red alert shuttle.
The shield sats, even when emagged, still "shoot" down the meteors that are on course for the station, not alot hit from either catastrophic wave

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:28 pm**

Sightld2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:04 pm
CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:51 pm Most people DON'T know what e-magging shield sats does. I certainly don't. And there's an argument to be made that while a lot of e-mag things are bad (Beepsky, Medibots, etc) some are Good Actually (chemistry, bar).
I think the Kicker is this line

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:50 pm however, it was not to my knowledge that emagging the shield sats actually still caused meteors to have a higher chance of happening, I thought it was old code due to the outdated wiki.
What? He read the wiki but thought it was probably just wrong? For no reason? What did he think it would do otherwise? He thought they did in the past but didn't anymore because?

This is simply because the wiki is very, unreliable on what is true or not,
Alot of things are outdated, such as the cult guide as stated, aswell as a few other things either being incomplete, or based off OLD runs of gamemodes etc.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:29 pm**

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:01 pm Okay hold on. HOLD ON. IF YOU SEE THIS MESSAGE WHEN YOU EMAG THE METEOR SHIELDS
to_chat(user, span_notice("You access the satellite's debug mode, increasing the chance of meteor strikes."))
I THINK IT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS WHAT EMAGGING IT DOES.

Just to make it clear, that message did not show on either sat,
I believe you have to MULTITOOL it to see that it is in debug mode, which, is very obscure

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:31 pm**

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 6:51 pm I'm not really happy with this ban.

I know that the sheer level of notes and bans acquired is what made this situation a perma, but even with that in consideration, I don't think it's enough to stick. As you say, bound to happen eventually, but that's why I think the patience should've been had.

Most people DON'T know what e-magging shield sats does. I certainly don't. And there's an argument to be made that while a lot of e-mag things are bad (Beepsky, Medibots, etc) some are Good Actually (chemistry, bar).

Be interesting to see how it goes, I suppose. If it DOES get overturned, I do expect we'll be back here in a week.

Just to make it clear, I heard rumors that emagging the grav gen caused the meteors, not the sats, I had no clear idea what was which consequence from emagging either

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:35 pm**

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:25 pm Thanks

You're welcome

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:37 pm**

What did you think emagging them would do?

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:39 pm**

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:37 pm What did you think emagging them would do?

genuinely?
Nothing.
I honestly thought it was a complete myth and have clearly been proven wrong as the sats are either called "useless objectives" or a waste of time by alot of engineering mains,
Ever since I started playing ss13 back in, god end of 2019? ive NEVER heard of them being emagged till this incident.
I was JOKING that it would "boost them" as there was a shitload of meteors before this issue took place

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:43 pm**

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:31 pm wow thats a lot of posts

the sacred octuple post

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:49 pm**

saprasam wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:43 pm
DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:31 pm wow thats a lot of posts
the sacred octuple post

Unironically unban him for this reason alone, he's one of us

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:55 pm**

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:39 pm
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:37 pm What did you think emagging them would do?
genuinely?
Nothing.

Then why did you do it if you genuinely didn't think it would do anything?

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:00 pm**

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:55 pm
DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:39 pm
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 7:37 pm What did you think emagging them would do?
genuinely?
Nothing.
Then why did you do it if you genuinely didn't think it would do anything?

I genuinely did it as a complete joke, thinking it did nothing, In retrospect I should of just said I did it if that makes sense?
Knowing that they work now, I see why its an issue

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:04 pm**

A joke to... Yourself?

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:10 pm**

Obvious bad faith grief with a 5 year old's excuse. Who in their right mind would actively seek getting an emag, then assist a traitor in emagging meteor shields as a nonantag? What were they expecting? Confetti?

A lying piece of shit griefer. "I am only just pretending to be retarded". YOU ARE RETARDED!!

!	Message from: Armhulen
	Please be respectful of other users. You can disagree with someone without being a hostile douchebag.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:12 pm**

BrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:04 pm A joke to... Yourself?

I was joking with the HOS, Kat Blu, that it would "boost their power"

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:16 pm**

I think Devin should have been given a temporary ban, or an MRP ban. This seems a bit extreme but thats without view of their entire ban/note history

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:19 pm**

EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:16 pm This seems a bit extreme but thats without view of their entire ban/note history

The complete ban note:

As a non-antagonist chief engineer, took an emag from the brig and emagged a meteor shield sattelite on round 202580. When confronted about this, claimed it was out of curiosity and that they did not know it would increase the chance of meteors. Has many recent notes, some including random bombings, and a few bans during this month as well.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:20 pm**

Maybe the meteor shield really doesn't send that message when you emag it. Could be a bug? It's at least worth testing in game

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:21 pm**

Also please see that mod note: Keep it respectful fellas, Chip got banned, he didn't kill your family and rob a bank

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:21 pm**

Huh I thought most engineers knew that. Either way- the fact he broke into the brig to get an emag as a non antag CE is pretty shit for an MRP server in my opinion. Did he just break in and enter? Was it just sitting there on an easy to access table? Or did he ask for it? Using contraband as sec is already a nono, but using it as a CE? That has to be way worse. The only way I see it being okay maybe is if somebody went to him asking to get something like a bar vendor emagged.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:24 pm**

Constellado wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:21 pm Huh I thought most engineers knew that. Either way- the fact he broke into the brig to get an emag as a non antag CE is pretty shit for an MRP server in my opinion. Did he just break in and enter? Was it just sitting there on an easy to access table? Or did he ask for it? Using contraband as sec is already a nono, but using it as a CE? That has to be way worse. The only way I see it being okay maybe is if somebody went to him asking to get something like a bar vendor emagged.

I learnt alot of my engineering ICly, mostly from one/two people and had to handle the rest on my own.
I rarely get antag and when I do, I wouldn't even think that the sats do anything, the vault doesnt, the bsa doesnt, so why would the sats?

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:37 pm**

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:24 pm
I learnt alot of my engineering ICly, mostly from one/two people and had to handle the rest on my own.
I rarely get antag and when I do, I wouldn't even think that the sats do anything, the vault doesnt, the bsa doesnt, so why would the sats?

The BSA needs an emagged state. It could go: Blam! Blows target and the user up.

Even if that is true the issue of taking the emag from sec still stands.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:37 pm**

I just want to say this whole shebang has spurred me into coding a new type of special meteor summoned when you do something stupid like emagging 16 meteor shields

► Show Spoiler

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:38 pm**

Constellado wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:37 pm
DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:24 pm
I learnt alot of my engineering ICly, mostly from one/two people and had to handle the rest on my own.
I rarely get antag and when I do, I wouldn't even think that the sats do anything, the vault doesnt, the bsa doesnt, so why would the sats?
The BSA needs an emagged state. It could go: Blam! Blows target and the user up.

Even if that is true the issue of taking the emag from sec still stands.

yeah I get taking the emag is an issue, but thats a whole other discussion that needs sorting if the water ever gets to it

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:39 pm**

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:37 pm I just want to say this whole shebang has spurred me into coding a new type of special meteor summoned when you do something stupid like emagging 16 meteor shields

► Show Spoiler

given that meteor shields dont "stop functioning" when emagged, they still destroy meteors,
emagging them just increases the weight, no extra damage was caused by the catastrophic that came after my emagging.
it is literally a jumpscare thing to command for a fast evac incase they do fail, but if I recall properly, I purchased 7 boxes of sats, each with 3 in

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:44 pm**

Who could've known that the item used for station sabotage, when used as intended, would cause station sabotage! Such a shocker!

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:56 pm**

Words escape me.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:04 pm**

TheSmallBlue wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:44 pm Who could've known that the item used for station sabotage, when used as intended, would cause station sabotage! Such a shocker!

Again, this is the first time I have ever seen the sats actually be emagged in like, 4 years of playing this game/codebase

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:08 pm**

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:04 pm Again, this is the first time I have ever seen the sats actually be emagged in like, 4 years of playing this game/codebase

But why couldn't you just have waited until you were an antag to get your hands on one? Why of all things did you use it on a round where you were a totally normal crewmember? The CE shouldn't be rummaging around security's scraps, let alone sabotaging the station with them.

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:08 pm**

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:10 pm**

AsbestosSniffer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:08 pm
DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:04 pm Again, this is the first time I have ever seen the sats actually be emagged in like, 4 years of playing this game/codebase
But why couldn't you just have waited until you were an antag to get your hands on one? Why of all things did you use it on a round where you were a totally normal crewmember? The CE shouldn't be rummaging around security's scraps.

Honestly? Because I am an absolute idiot, and very clearly from some peoples opinions, a dumbass etc. I aqquired one to use it as a joke, to give security something to do, they had caught like, a lot of the antags (who then, somehow hijacked, but that wasnt my fault as I had died)
Me and the HOS had a chase around, a few shove fights, that was it, it was just a bit of drama to the shift if that makes sense

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:16 pm**

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:39 pm
Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:37 pm I just want to say this whole shebang has spurred me into coding a new type of special meteor summoned when you do something stupid like emagging 16 meteor shields

► Show Spoiler

given that meteor shields dont "stop functioning" when emagged, they still destroy meteors,
emagging them just increases the weight, no extra damage was caused by the catastrophic that came after my emagging.
it is literally a jumpscare thing to command for a fast evac incase they do fail, but if I recall properly, I purchased 7 boxes of sats, each with 3 in

I honestly thought meteor shields didn't even work

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:22 pm**

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/74330

Posted: **Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:26 pm**

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 9:16 pm
DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:39 pm
Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 28, 2023 8:37 pm I just want to say this whole shebang has spurred me into coding a new type of special meteor summoned when you do something stupid like emagging 16 meteor shields

► Show Spoiler

given that meteor shields dont "stop functioning" when emagged, they still destroy meteors,
emagging them just increases the weight, no extra damage was caused by the catastrophic that came after my emagging.
it is literally a jumpscare thing to command for a fast evac incase they do fail, but if I recall properly, I purchased 7 boxes of sats, each with 3 in
I honestly thought meteor shields didn't even work

this is what I mean, sats are so obscure on what they actually do, I genuinely had no clue they had an emag state.
I know they work, simply from actually seeing them work ICly

/tg/Station 13

Chip Shitfest peanut

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