/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33730

Let's be real here, I got banned for playing security in the most efficient manner. There's a really fucking obvious reason why no one plays security... Because when you play with an ounce of self-preservation and treat the crew as they should be treated, like the violent, dangerous criminals they are, you make some grey tiding little n---- wah-wah about how unfair it is that someone was guarding armory and was better armed than them, and how if only no one was in the armory, they could just walk in and grey tide to their heart's content. It's absolute fucking bullshit. I've seen antags kill entire stations before, yet I can't gun down a man who waltz'd into security with access he shouldn't have? What was he there for? Was he there for the donuts? Was he there to get some non-lethal means of detainment? Cuffs? No, he was there so he could get some fucking guns and have a means to kill someone. I just so happened to kill him first, is all. The server is the god damned wild west, you dumb shit fucking morons. You act like everyone isn't fucking devouring each other. You're acting like non-antags aren't kidnapping and ruining other non-antags rounds. You're acting like security isn't constantly dying because their guns are absolute shit and a man with a toolbox and a sprayer full of lube dooesn't regularly kill sec. Bullshit.

I used the shotgun. You know why? Cause the shot gun doesn't miss, and unlike the shitty hybrid taser it stops a criminal in their tracks in two hits. Bang, bang, and they're fucking done. I use four shots just to make damn sure. Because, once again, I'm not there to coddle a buncha criminal scum sucking f----ts, I'm there to 1) Survive the fucking round. 2) Guard the armory. So you can absolutely get fucked. If I get unbanned, which I won't, you can guarantee I will continue to use the shotgun to apprehend criminals. Because it's quick, clean and effective as fuck. Why in the seven hells would I fuck around with the disabler shots, which take half a clip just to bring someone down, or with the tazer bolts which are slow as balls, impossible to aim and do about next to jack shit, fuck all. The shotgun is the superior law enforcement weapon. Because it stops crime. And it stops crime by reducing the number of criminals roaming the fucking halls.

As it stands now, antags are allowed to prance around doing whatever the fuck demented, sick shit they feel like, yet security has to toe the line and be the 'good guy' while getting fucking murdered in the process. Fuck that. Fuck that right in the god damned eyes and squish 'em into a paste, that's garbage. That's a sack of shit.

LOOK AT THE SOCIAL CLIMATE OF YOUR SHITTY FUCKING SERVER. LOOK AT THE DERANGEMENT, THE FUCKING SICKENING DISREGARD FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S WELLBEINGS. THE ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING TACTICS EMPLOYED BY ANTAGS AND GREYTIDERS. Look at all that shit and you tell me that excessive force is crossing the line. Taking one grey tiding scum sucker out of the genepool just makes the station a little bit more safe for people who actually want to work in their departments and do their jobs... Which is almost no one.
Ban Type: Gayness personified in the form of a hairdresser/interior designer from LA.
Ban Length: Blah blah blah Jews did 9/11.
Why should I be unbanned: Ah, fuck off. You think I honestly give a fuck? The only reason I'm taking this even semi-seriously, and believe me this is me appealing a ban in a semi-serious manner, is because I literally have no other SS13 servers to play on. I can play on CM... which is... absolutely fucking horrifyingly dull. I can play on, like, a Spanish speaking server... or two Russian servers... and then nothing. I mean, wowee, I guess I could go play on a server with fucking 4 people on it. Wow that sounds fun.

The problem is that the autistic fucking admins on these SS13 servers, so drunk with power, so intoxicated on the scent of their sweaty ballsacks as they drown in 'decision making' and 'responsibility', things they've never had before, hand out permabans for next to nothing. Why not a 3 month ban? Why not a 6 month ban? No. A fucking perma ban. Nevermind that people change, nevermind that people have shitty days or good days, nevermind that FOREVER IS A FUCKING LONG TIME, no... Permabans. And then they expect you to appeal on the forums so they can have MORE POWER, MORE DECISION MAKING. "HOO HOO, LOOKIT ME MOMMY, I GET TO DECIDE THE FATE OF THIS MAN HOOOO HOOOOOO WOWEEE SO EXCITE, MY LITTLE WINKY WILLY IS GETTING CHUB-CHUB, MOMMY." And let's be fucking absolutely real here, the only reason admins want people to sign up for the fucking forums to fucking ban appeal is so they can sell the members e-mails to, like, Chinese realtors or some shit.

I mean, obviously that's what's happening. What else could it be?

In conclusion, let it be known that I am the biggest man with the largest cock.

i used the shotgun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6bbelf ... exbomb6464

THE SUPERIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT WEAPON

I popped off with the shotty.
I went brrr with the boomstick.
I clapped them with the blaster.
I was drippin’ with the scattergun.
I finessed them with the buckshot.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 11:06 pm In conclusion, let it be known that I am the biggest man with the largest cock.

like, in the game, in real life, only in the country. i cannot imagine having the largest one it doesnt soudn comfortable honestly

Security shotguns supposed saboteur, suddenly, spooky spirit steals suspect's soul.

Seems a little odd to get a note for this, but if he has a history of lethaling people as security it's understandable. If you really want to use the shotgun for arrests why not use beanbag shells?

Because security officers think that critical health damage is stronger than stamina damage.

I don't see the problem with using shotgun in any situation whatsoever as security. Can't be blamed for a revenant killing the guy, that's like if I brig someone and someone bombs the brig. Was out of his control. Shotgun was also definitely justified in the second situation when he's getting shoved, and was questionable in an IC manner for the first one.

This feels like it probably didn't need a note, but, once again: note appealing rules.

It's factually correct and I don't think it's unjustifiably harsh.

Notes are just difficult to appeal.

In particular I don't like the bit about "you only had the Captain's words to go on". That should be plenty. The captain says jump, you jump.

I disagree. 46 damage in four shots being lethal is not factually correct. Captain say-so justifies use of shotgun. This note creates a precedent that sec just should not use shotguns. Especially considering it's on Terry.

I'm 100% against shotgunmaxxing, but I feel that the problem was unjustified arrests moreso than weapon selection.

From the logs the captain was doing a gimmick of seceding from NT and calling for the arrest of loyal employees.

https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/203 ... e=game.txt

I won't exactly post logs yet because I'm not at home and it's much harder to copy from a phone but I know the only thing I can find so far is the captain just saying "arrest" at the time of the first shotgun and not elaborating.

Insane admin thinks rubber pellets are lethal. I am disappointed in you, Somepan.
This note contains the factually incorrect implication that rubber pellets are not already a non-lethal method. No rule was broken once you adjust your perspective to account for this.

Even conrad, CONRAD, agrees:

conrad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:22 am I disagree. 46 damage in four shots being lethal is not factually correct.

Actual lethals, to mean red lasers, put you in crit in 4 hits. Compare this to a mere 46 damage in 4 hits.

Captain's orders are a valid reason to arrest somebody. Of course, once you have him in custody, you have to determine whether there's an actual crime to charge him with or the captain's just being a retard.

On another note, sinfulbliss's post here might just be the most based text I've ever read on this forum, and the second most based SS13 text after the guide to shitcurity.

CAPTAIN’S ORDERS ARE LAW! HOW TO ARREST ANYONE WITH NO EXPLANATION! (INSANE DAMAGE DIFFERENCE) [SHOTGUN VS LASER DAMAGE TESTING]

but in all seriousness I'd argue "captain said so" is a valid reason to arrest someone even if you should inquire further later. sometimes captains gotta give an order and not get 20 questions about it. And 46 damage in 4 shots is not lethal, 4 shots from a laser deals almost double that. Finally, I would note that while rubber shots deal damage, they will stamcrit WAY faster (3 brute per pellet, 11 stam per pellet) so yes you would be able to arrest someone far before they went into crit which just makes me think it's not lethal equipment even more

Logs posted. Turns out captain ordered the arrest of the guy for trying to steal away a crit person from him...which he himself tried to take away from the guy, who was rescuing them from space carp.
To e-pen them.
Both were literally just pushing each other over who was going to rescue someone and then shotgun happens.
This is a classic "right hand left hand" ss13 moment.

Is it even related what the captain's reasoning was if the security officer didn't know it? They're not omniscent.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 3:41 pm Is it even related what the captain's reasoning was if the security officer didn't know it? They're not omniscent.

It would at least explain why the captain ordered the arrest and that it was technically him at fault.

I wouldn't even note the security officer, at the most he would get a finger wag for using the shotgun instead of the baton in this first situation. (Second one was more valid, revenant just happened to be there)

It also shows that Wally was basically just screwed over and ended up bullying the sec for immediately resorting to what he felt was a lethal weapon just for trying to rescue someone.

Captain was the one who started this. Wally was just unlucky and got rightfully angry and the sec was just following orders, though triggerhappy.

Missed oppurtunity to not call the thread ”shutgunmaxx”

I think sec should just arrest everyone roundstart. Latejoins should be executed. (tough on crime)

Chadley wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 6:06 pm I think sec should just arrest everyone roundstart. Latejoins should be executed. (tough on crime)

It is a stern judgment, yet a just one, considering the plight of the situation. Security, as a realm, will ever be in peril where they are assailed first, so it is meet to balance the scales a little thus.

That is so as to say: Harsh, but fair

Sec and AI should team up round start to put everyone in their own padded cell stocked with oxygen and food to prevent as much harm as possible.

I think this appeal reveals a divide in the weapon classifications that would benefit policy. Right now we think of weapons as lethal or non-lethal, but just like real life, there is a third option that really needs it's own classification. Less-lethal. Non-lethal s are weapons that cannot kill, Less-lethal are weapons that will stam crit before they kill but do deal damage, and Lethals will kill before they stam crit. If you chose to use a less lethal instead of a non-lethal and the target dies, that is on you for irresponsible weapon usage.

rasonj wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 6:38 pm Sec and AI should team up round start to put everyone in their own padded cell stocked with oxygen and food to prevent as much harm as possible.

I think this appeal reveals a divide in the weapon classifications that would benefit policy. Right now we think of weapons as lethal or non-lethal, but just like real life, there is a third option that really needs it's own classification. Less-lethal. Non-lethal s are weapons that cannot kill, Less-lethal are weapons that will stam crit before they kill but do deal damage, and Lethals will kill before they stam crit. If you chose to use a less lethal instead of a non-lethal and the target dies, that is on you for irresponsible weapon usage.

the weapon classifications are fine, you just shouldnt be using weapons as sec if you dont understand how dangerous they can be

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:53 am This feels like it probably didn't need a note, but, once again: note appealing rules.

It's factually correct and I don't think it's unjustifiably harsh.

It is unjustifiably harsh though.
He got noted because he defended himself against an assistant who was attacking him while he was in a vulnerable position, who might have had motive to go further.
The assistant happened to die by an act of god. A literal ghost that he couldn't have realized was there showed up and ate the assistant who shouldn't have attacked the secoff in the first place if he didn't want to eat shit.
There's no reason to apply a note as if the secoff had willingly beaten the assistant to death.
I could see an argument being made that he didn't try to stop the revenant if that's the case- but we haven't seen the logs for the second fight.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:18 pm

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:53 am This feels like it probably didn't need a note, but, once again: note appealing rules.

It's factually correct and I don't think it's unjustifiably harsh.

It is unjustifiably harsh though.
He got noted because he defended himself against an assistant who was attacking him while he was in a vulnerable position, who might have had motive to go further.
The assistant happened to die by an act of god. A literal ghost that he couldn't have realized was there showed up and ate the assistant who shouldn't have attacked the secoff in the first place if he didn't want to eat shit.
There's no reason to apply a note as if the secoff had willingly beaten the assistant to death.
I could see an argument being made that he didn't try to stop the revenant if that's the case- but we haven't seen the logs for the second fight.

but this is in the note. You are just repeating facts from the note. So how is it harsh? Admins viewing the note will also be able to read the note, and probably realise that it's a stupid note. I want to be clear: I think Somepan is wrong and the note should be removed. It should never have been placed. HOWEVER, I believe the rules as they stand, Somepan is justified in not removing the note. I continue to believe it is a factually correct, not-unjustifiably harsh note. I hope that somepan uses their agency here to remove the note. Or, failing that, the headmins use their authority to remove the note

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:18 pm

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:18 pm

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:53 am This feels like it probably didn't need a note, but, once again: note appealing rules.

It's factually correct and I don't think it's unjustifiably harsh.

It is unjustifiably harsh though.
He got noted because he defended himself against an assistant who was attacking him while he was in a vulnerable position, who might have had motive to go further.
The assistant happened to die by an act of god. A literal ghost that he couldn't have realized was there showed up and ate the assistant who shouldn't have attacked the secoff in the first place if he didn't want to eat shit.
There's no reason to apply a note as if the secoff had willingly beaten the assistant to death.
I could see an argument being made that he didn't try to stop the revenant if that's the case- but we haven't seen the logs for the second fight.

but this is in the note. You are just repeating facts from the note. So how is it harsh?

There's a bit of confusion here, because I consider the reasons that it was placed to be the same reasons that the note is harsh. After a bit of mulling it over, I think we're getting confused because I'm working on an (probably incorrect) interpretation of the rules that says 'the note was placed for harsh reasons', as opposed to the (probably very much correct) 'note exaggerates against/slanders the person who received it'. he received a punishment for doing nothing wrong, and that in itself is harsh.
In sum, I need to think more before I post, especially when I haven't woken up yet.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:35 pm

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:18 pm

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:18 pm

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:53 am This feels like it probably didn't need a note, but, once again: note appealing rules.

It's factually correct and I don't think it's unjustifiably harsh.

It is unjustifiably harsh though.
He got noted because he defended himself against an assistant who was attacking him while he was in a vulnerable position, who might have had motive to go further.
The assistant happened to die by an act of god. A literal ghost that he couldn't have realized was there showed up and ate the assistant who shouldn't have attacked the secoff in the first place if he didn't want to eat shit.
There's no reason to apply a note as if the secoff had willingly beaten the assistant to death.
I could see an argument being made that he didn't try to stop the revenant if that's the case- but we haven't seen the logs for the second fight.

but this is in the note. You are just repeating facts from the note. So how is it harsh?

There's a bit of confusion here, because I consider the reasons that it was placed to be the same reasons that the note is harsh. After a bit of mulling it over, I think we're getting confused because I'm working on an (probably incorrect) interpretation of the rules that says 'the note was placed for harsh reasons', as opposed to the (probably very much correct) 'note exaggerates against/slanders the person who received it'. he received a punishment for doing nothing wrong, and that in itself is harsh.
In sum, I need to think more before I post, especially when I haven't woken up yet.

No! I disagree. I think the rules are vague (Intentionally I suspect), and probably intentionally vague in admins' favour. I think both of our interpretations of the current rules are reasonable good-faith interpretations. THey probably need clarifying...

I'll fucking remove buckshot again

oranges wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:44 pm I'll fucking remove buckshot again

please go back to your slumber

oranges wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:44 pm I'll fucking remove buckshot again

Remove shotguns altogether.

oranges wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:44 pm I'll fucking remove buckshot again

If Buckshot was back we wouldn't be in this situation.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:16 pm Insane admin thinks rubber pellets are lethal. I am disappointed in you, Somepan.
This note contains the factually incorrect implication that rubber pellets are not already a non-lethal method. No rule was broken once you adjust your perspective to account for this.

Have you heard of the phrase 'less than lethal'? Because that's what rubbershot is. It isn't 'nonlethal', it's 'less than lethal'. You can definitely kill people with it if you're not careful.

oranges wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:44 pm I'll fucking remove buckshot again

You can't get buckshot as crew, oranges.

oranges wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:44 pm I'll fucking remove buckshot again

double negative - youll just bring it back

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:35 pm he received a punishment for doing nothing wrong, and that in itself is harsh.

How does datorangebottle continue to be this based in nearly every thread, if not every thread?

Potter Stewart (1962) wrote:Even one day in prison would be a cruel and unusual punishment for the "crime" of having a common cold

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:38 am

ekaterina wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:16 pm Insane admin thinks rubber pellets are lethal. I am disappointed in you, Somepan.
This note contains the factually incorrect implication that rubber pellets are not already a non-lethal method. No rule was broken once you adjust your perspective to account for this.

Have you heard of the phrase 'less than lethal'? Because that's what rubbershot is. It isn't 'nonlethal', it's 'less than lethal'. You can definitely kill people with it if you're not careful.

oranges wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:44 pm I'll fucking remove buckshot again

You can't get buckshot as crew, oranges.

It's a bit of an issue that the rubbershot shells and box doesn't say anything about it being less than lethal, when it really should

I miss tazers.

PengisBungholius wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:31 pm It's a bit of an issue that the rubbershot shells and box doesn't say anything about it being less than lethal, when it really should

That's not hard to do, I can fix that pretty quick. Might not make any difference...

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 5:11 am

PengisBungholius wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:31 pm It's a bit of an issue that the rubbershot shells and box doesn't say anything about it being less than lethal, when it really should

That's not hard to do, I can fix that pretty quick. Might not make any difference...

It'd at least curb the seccies who use it and are confused why the AI/borgs are now mad at them for human harm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:16 pm Insane admin thinks rubber pellets are lethal. I am disappointed in you, Somepan.
This note contains the factually incorrect implication that rubber pellets are not already a non-lethal method. No rule was broken once you adjust your perspective to account for this.

Even conrad, CONRAD, agrees:

conrad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:22 am I disagree. 46 damage in four shots being lethal is not factually correct.

Actual lethals, to mean red lasers, put you in crit in 4 hits. Compare this to a mere 46 damage in 4 hits.

Captain's orders are a valid reason to arrest somebody. Of course, once you have him in custody, you have to determine whether there's an actual crime to charge him with or the captain's just being a retard.

On another note, sinfulbliss's post here might just be the most based text I've ever read on this forum, and the second most based SS13 text after the guide to shitcurity.

Unfortunately, while rubbers are not intended to be lethal, they can still absolutely fuck you up.
Rubbers can cause some quite serious wounds if they are used close up, which is, insane considering they are literally meant to cause stamina damage

Somepan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:34 pm Rubber pellets are definitely human harm. As long as something deals damage, it is human harm if used against humans.

Who cares? This is a security player, not an Asimov borg. Silicon policy is entirely irrelevant to security policy.

He was cornered by someone intent on attacking him and he used his non-lethal shotgun pellets. This is a skill issue, not rule-breaking behaviour.

I think they were replying to me, when I backed up the fact that humans do t know rubbershot does damage, and I think they think I have been allowed human harm via rubbershot pellets. Btw, I didn’t want to post this in the ban appeal, but I have to explain to them in fucking detail how they DO do damage. I am not a bad AI, like I think Pan was implying.

Stupid note. He didn't even kill the player and only did 46 damage.
Can we please not go overboard on players playing the game as intended?

SS13 is a game where most players don't know the mechanics of everything because it's complex. SS13 is also a game of paranoia and imperfect information

i tried to post that as a coder, rubbershot is very much intended for arrests and some dipshit forum admin just denied them for being "peanut"

this is the stupidest note i've seen in months

Somepan's note said that the guy died in his custody due to a revenant.

Except:
1. Both people fell into the same area in maint. The combat happened in the same area, and the guy died on a few seconds after.
2. The area was in maint, which was dark. It's possible that he never spotted the revenant.
3. The sec officer didn't even know there was a rev until he stole his soul.