/tg/Station 13

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The headmin appeal part of the "Why you think you should be banned" got a giggle out of me.

abductors are meant to be a 3rd party to the crew and antagonists that does whatever benefits them the most which I think he performed in good faith here.

Mmmm I'm inclined to say the ban is bad. Abductors aren't crew sure, but they benefit in crew being alive (so they can abduct them) and I'm not aware of any rule saying abductors can't fight other antags

Bad ban.

I was in the round, and i got abducted and got a AA heart. The abductors shouldnt really participate in things like that. Yes, malf ai is understandable but nukies?
I think that is a little to far. Yes abductors benefit from having the crew alive, but there objectives are to only implant like 7 people. I just think that nukies are also considered "crew" since they are on the ship. All together bad ban, they done it in good faith.

EDIT: I know rectification a little, he doesnt really like nice antagonists. I agree antagonist are supposed to ANTAGONIZE. Give sec something to do, everytime I am HoS i just arrest clown because the antagonist are doing a shop, and ill get shit from OOC if i shut it down.

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:13 pm abductors are meant to be a 3rd party to the crew and antagonists that does whatever benefits them the most which I think he performed in good faith here.

The abductors would preserve their own lives, maybe continue abducting, maybe observe.

Why would these scientists or whatever the fuck they are embark on some navy seal shit to save the people they're giving butt-fire organs and brainwashings to? Why the FUCK would they go on the offensive like this. It would be a bad ban if the abductors were doing some gang shit and stealing.

Abductors are one of the few antags that, despite being antags, are not allowed to wordlessly go and kill people.

The simple question to that is "Why?", which is because their kit is extremely strong and facing against them if they are just trying to wipe you is futile when they have a free escape, THE BEST one hit weapon, one of the best guns (fully strips you and makes you unable to shoot), and can literally gangstalk you across the map with full vision.

I think simply turning that bloodlust towards antags is equally disruptive and against the spirit of why that rule was implemented, but I also think the elephant in the room is that there is no end for abductors they win their objective and then... uh... they can use the role to second life as a validhunting mime ig? It really sucks lol

Does nobody else just keep abducting?

i was in this round too and i think the issue i took with it was less about them fighting the ops but more to the extent they interacted with the crew. i was HoP and they stopped me on the bridge and used my PDA to directly communicate with me that "hey, these guys are ops, but don't worry, we stopped them and secured the disk for you. by the way do you want an implant to let you ventcrawl?"

if the excuse is that you're furthering your experimentation by protecting your test subjects, that makes sense, sure, but once you've exposed yourself and put yourself on friendly terms like that, i think the covers blown. its probably over at that point.

sybil/bagil/terry - bad ban

manuel - good ban

if its fine to be a magic wizard or fire breathing carp dragon that befriends the crew, it should be fine for aliens to befriend the crew as well

keep these notes for manuel

i hear they hate fun over there??

massa wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:35 pm

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:13 pm abductors are meant to be a 3rd party to the crew and antagonists that does whatever benefits them the most which I think he performed in good faith here.

The abductors would preserve their own lives, maybe continue abducting, maybe observe.

Why would these scientists or whatever the fuck they are embark on some navy seal shit to save the people they're giving butt-fire organs and brainwashings to? Why the FUCK would they go on the offensive like this. It would be a bad ban if the abductors were doing some gang shit and stealing.

They can't observe if everything's dead! It's like watching an aquarium with nothing but dead fish.

vect0r wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:41 pm Does nobody else just keep abducting?

it was like sub 30 players theres only so much u can abduct lol

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:23 pm sybil/bagil/terry - bad ban

manuel - good ban

if its fine to be a magic wizard or fire breathing carp dragon that befriends the crew, it should be fine for aliens to befriend the crew as well

keep these notes for manuel

i hear they hate fun over there??

id be perfectly fine with them doing this kind of stuff if they were kitted with that in mind (see: less powerful).

Abductors have some of the most overtuned kits in the game from a cringe gamer perspective, but that is tempered by the fact they are limited to using them purely by RP orientation. If you play them like a pvp gamer, especially killing the other avenues for conflict generation of the round, you only set yourself up to see the role lose some of its power/fun because its expected that players will abuse the power provided to do exactly that.

That is unless you just get admins to tell them to knock it off, which Is the option I prefer (besides the "just let them ruin any and all antags when they spawn" option).

edit: This doesnt suggest I agree with disallowing someone to play abductors for an entire month over the ordeal, but I agree with the concept it shouldnt be allowed in normal circumstances.

AsbestosSniffer wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:52 pm

massa wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:35 pm

blackdav123 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 10:13 pm abductors are meant to be a 3rd party to the crew and antagonists that does whatever benefits them the most which I think he performed in good faith here.

The abductors would preserve their own lives, maybe continue abducting, maybe observe.

Why would these scientists or whatever the fuck they are embark on some navy seal shit to save the people they're giving butt-fire organs and brainwashings to? Why the FUCK would they go on the offensive like this. It would be a bad ban if the abductors were doing some gang shit and stealing.

They can't observe if everything's dead! It's like watching an aquarium with nothing but dead fish.

Onto the next batch of humans.

Grey aliens are an old trope. They're cold, unfeeling, their motives are unclear, interaction with them is limited, even if you can interact with them they aren't very yielding at all, but they're not explicitly malicious. Sometimes, it feels like being a mouse cut open by a human in a lab coat, sometimes it feels like the most horrible violation. They behave like military scientists dealing with nuclear monkeys they're afraid of, even in kidnapping testimonials.

These dudes were grey ass supermen. Go probe assholes.

fwiw, abductors are not covered under rule 4.

Emergent gameplay

Cobby wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:29 pm Abductors are one of the few antags that, despite being antags, are not allowed to wordlessly go and kill people.

The simple question to that is "Why?", which is because their kit is extremely strong and facing against them if they are just trying to wipe you is futile when they have a free escape, THE BEST one hit weapon, one of the best guns (fully strips you and makes you unable to shoot), and can literally gangstalk you across the map with full vision.

I think simply turning that bloodlust towards antags is equally disruptive and against the spirit of why that rule was implemented, but I also think the elephant in the room is that there is no end for abductors they win their objective and then... uh... they can use the role to second life as a validhunting mime ig? It really sucks lol

abductors would be better if they were more migo themed or had a migo variant and its probably something i`ll tackle when i get more experienced , inherently hostile to other life forms, wants to do invasive surgery / turn people into their meat technology, but less gamebreaking tools so we dont need to have the invisible hand of policy restraining them.

see how migos are in cataclysm dark days ahead for example.

obviously current abductors can stay because of their niche if we want them to but a hostile mid round that abducts people but doesnt swarm seems like migos could fit as something between abductors and xenos.

My favorite kinds of movies are the ones where aliens just show up out of no where and ass blast the meteor hurdling towards Earth, announcing their presence, ruining the the potential for their experiments to continue that were already going to end, and ushering forth more uncertainty, panic, and danger.

The abductors are supposed to be biologists researching in the field. If a rival ant colony sends ants to nuke this ant colony into bits, the appropriate thing to do is take notes on the events and pack up if the ant colony is destroyed.

I don't get why they had to ban them; they seemed like they were doing this in good faith, instead they should have bwoinked the player, said "hey please don't do that right now", then make a policy thread about it to figure out the correct course of action.

vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 11:59 pm I don't get why they had to ban them; they seemed like they were doing this in good faith, instead they should have bwoinked the player, said "hey please don't do that right now", then make a policy thread about it to figure out the correct course of action.

I would not have placed a ban if i thought they were acting in good faith.

zxaber wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 10:46 pm The abductors are supposed to be biologists researching in the field. If a rival ant colony sends ants to nuke this ant colony into bits, the appropriate thing to do is take notes on the events and pack up if the ant colony is destroyed.

They're meant to be implanting glands and other pseudo-organs and researching the effects on organisms like humans and lizardmen, they can't do that if something kills them all.
If it was as you described it, the abductors would ONLY be watching from a distance and seeing how the station dwellers fair. Generally, when scientists want to study a living organism, they ensure that it remains that way, it'd be kind of useless and a waste of time if they were researching locust brainwaves if the locusts were dead.

If murdering a delta AI was to save the round from ending so fast so they can get their green text then is it murder boning? I think not. Now if they randomly killed the ai when it was found to be malf but not trying to blow up the station that would be crossing the line.

If anything there should be a code fix to allow malf AI's to buy a "bluespace inhibitor" that prevents things from teleporting next to their core so easy.

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 4:12 am If murdering a delta AI was to save the round from ending so fast so they can get their green text then is it murder boning? I think not. Now if they randomly killed the ai when it was found to be malf but not trying to blow up the station that would be crossing the line.

If anything there should be a code fix to allow malf AI's to buy a "bluespace inhibitor" that prevents things from teleporting next to their core so easy.

abductors can't teleport into AI core

Striders13 wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 5:04 am

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Wed May 17, 2023 4:12 am If murdering a delta AI was to save the round from ending so fast so they can get their green text then is it murder boning? I think not. Now if they randomly killed the ai when it was found to be malf but not trying to blow up the station that would be crossing the line.

If anything there should be a code fix to allow malf AI's to buy a "bluespace inhibitor" that prevents things from teleporting next to their core so easy.

abductors can't teleport into AI core

oh i didn't know that!

I have been vindicated.

Still think the note should be overturned, as the policy thread that vindicated you was closed after you banned them. I'm not saying you are in the wrong, because you are not, just that it feels off to me.

I have been looking at posts, and I just want to say, I think you are a good admin. I think that this ban is 100% legit, and want you to know that I am not on some kind of anti-admin/anti-e2c crusade, just disagree with the ban.

respect