/tg/Station 13

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I have things to say about this one.

I get constant nonstop fucking messages about "I HATE X" "I HATE Y" about the map and I'm so fucking sick and tired of it. It's got me burned out from all development aspects. I have like 5 massive PRs i want to do with it but I just don't care anymore because I can't sit in my own discord thread/the mapper channel/the forum thread/the manuel discord without people going off just taking about how shit it is without telling me how I can fix it. It's very disheartening to hear "X BAD" without being told what I can do to fix it, why it's bad, why the idea behind it's bad, or anything else.

It is everywhere. I cannot go anywhere in the community because I'm told straight to my face that the project I care about is shit without any constructive feedback behind it. I literally do not want to play the game, admin, or contribute because it feels like feeding a pack of coyotes that'll just gnaw at my arm.

Frankly, the justification that "it's all the new maps that nuke ops want to blow up" is so bullshit. Sinful has to think Vekter is an idiot for him to believe that.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:02 am I have things to say about this one.

I get constant nonstop fucking messages about "I HATE X" "I HATE Y" about the map and I'm so fucking sick and tired of it. It's got me burned out from all development aspects. I have like 5 massive PRs i want to do with it but I just don't care anymore because I can't sit in my own discord thread/the mapper channel/the forum thread/the manuel discord without people going off just taking about how shit it is without telling me how I can fix it. It's very disheartening to hear "X BAD" without being told what I can do to fix it, why it's bad, why the idea behind it's bad, or anything else.

It is everywhere. I cannot go anywhere in the community because I'm told straight to my face that the project I care about is shit without any constructive feedback behind it. I literally do not want to play the game, admin, or contribute because it feels like feeding a pack of coyotes that'll just gnaw at my arm.

Frankly, the justification that "it's all the new maps that nuke ops want to blow up" is so bullshit. Sinful has to think Vekter is an idiot for him to believe that.

,,
I love your PRs man. Northstar is an amazing map, and I really hope to see more great work from you. Just remember, for every vocal critic, there are like 5 people who love your map! <3

People will literally laugh at anything.
I don't think people laughing at something qualifies as "quality".
Also this just literally tacks on two unrelated maps to tram for """humor""".

Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:32 am People will literally laugh at anything.
I don't think people laughing at something qualifies as "quality".
Also this just literally tacks on two unrelated maps to tram for """humor""".

They're not unrelated. They're all the newest maps.

vect0r wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:25 am ,,
I love your PRs man. Northstar is an amazing map, and I really hope to see more great work from you. Just remember, for every vocal critic, there are like 5 people who love your map! <3

Thanks a bunch. I don't mind if people dislike the map. Not everything will appeal to everyone. What I mind is those people telling me they dislike it at every opportunity while never saying what they dislike or what I can do to improve it for them. It's grating.

Yeah no, this name sucks. It's not even just a naming policy thing, it's a rule 1 thing. people put a lot of time and effort into maps and promoting/fostering mapper abuse for a joke isn't going to make things any better. The only questionable thing about this is it being handled through discord long after the fact, which is very odd.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:02 am It is everywhere. I cannot go anywhere in the community because I'm told straight to my face that the project I care about is shit without any constructive feedback behind it. I literally do not want to play the game, admin, or contribute because it feels like feeding a pack of coyotes that'll just gnaw at my arm.

/tg/ players seem to love making a self-fulfilling prophecy out of the codebase by heckling the creators until their brains explode and they stop working on and improving the code. So then they think the code sucks, and nobody's working on improving it, so it's never going to not suck to them. Plus, they're not telling the right people what they think sucks about the code so it can be worked on if it's something that can be changed, they're just telling people that it's ass like that's fact instead of their own shitty opinion.

Personally, I really like Northstar, and would be sad if it went the way Kilo did.

Also, @sinful what are you doing dude. setting your name as a nukie isn't an in-character action.

Name sucks, this deserves the note and is just in general rule 1 stuff. Imagine being the mapper behind one of these stations thinking you can finally go play the game and have some fun without being bombarded by "I hate X" and then the fucking nukie called "FUCK TRAM FUCK NORTHSTAR FUCK BIRDSHIT" shows up. That must fucking suck, keep the note

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:37 am

Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:32 am People will literally laugh at anything.
I don't think people laughing at something qualifies as "quality".
Also this just literally tacks on two unrelated maps to tram for """humor""".

They're not unrelated. They're all the newest maps.

I consider it unrelated for the purposes of the round, which was Tram.

I'm fine with your map by the way. It's big, but so is Delta, and I could get used to it.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:41 am Also, @sinful what are you doing dude. setting your name as a nukie isn't an in-character action.

I would like to add that you are not IC naming your character right as the mission is about to start (I think at least?), yeah nukies can have silly names but imagine your passport or id saying "Craig FUCK TRAM FUCK NORTHSTAR FUCK BIRDSHIT" thats extremly dumb, its also not funny, like criminally unfunny

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:39 am Yeah no, this name sucks. It's not even just a naming policy thing, it's a rule 1 thing. people put a lot of time and effort into maps and promoting/fostering mapper abuse for a joke isn't going to make things any better. The only questionable thing about this is it being handled through discord long after the fact, which is very odd.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:02 am It is everywhere. I cannot go anywhere in the community because I'm told straight to my face that the project I care about is shit without any constructive feedback behind it. I literally do not want to play the game, admin, or contribute because it feels like feeding a pack of coyotes that'll just gnaw at my arm.

/tg/ players seem to love making a self-fulfilling prophecy out of the codebase by heckling the creators until their brains explode and they stop working on and improving the code. So then they think the code sucks, and nobody's working on improving it, so it's never going to not suck to them. Plus, they're not telling the right people what they think sucks about the code so it can be worked on if it's something that can be changed, they're just telling people that it's ass like that's fact instead of their own shitty opinion.

Personally, I really like Northstar, and would be sad if it went the way Kilo did.

Kilo removal at least had the tacit approval of the creator, who is SLOWLY working on a Z-level variant.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:39 am Yeah no, this name sucks. It's not even just a naming policy thing, it's a rule 1 thing. people put a lot of time and effort into maps and promoting/fostering mapper abuse for a joke isn't going to make things any better. The only questionable thing about this is it being handled through discord long after the fact, which is very odd.

I think I'm having a stroke, datorangebottle agreeing with me?! It's the end times.

Anyway this comes after the fact because another player used these names in a different round and said he'd seen someone else do it, so I looked back into it and found out whodunnit. That other player also copped a note for it; needless to say, if headmins overturn this, I will remove his note as well.

Also Northstar slaps and Chesh is a good mapper.

E: Also also I expected to get dragged HARD for this so I'm pretty shocked tbh

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:02 am I have things to say about this one.

I get constant nonstop fucking messages about "I HATE X" "I HATE Y" about the map and I'm so fucking sick and tired of it. It's got me burned out from all development aspects. I have like 5 massive PRs i want to do with it but I just don't care anymore because I can't sit in my own discord thread/the mapper channel/the forum thread/the manuel discord without people going off just taking about how shit it is without telling me how I can fix it. It's very disheartening to hear "X BAD" without being told what I can do to fix it, why it's bad, why the idea behind it's bad, or anything else.

It is everywhere. I cannot go anywhere in the community because I'm told straight to my face that the project I care about is shit without any constructive feedback behind it. I literally do not want to play the game, admin, or contribute because it feels like feeding a pack of coyotes that'll just gnaw at my arm.

Frankly, the justification that "it's all the new maps that nuke ops want to blow up" is so bullshit. Sinful has to think Vekter is an idiot for him to believe that.

Vect0rs right chesh, for every person that complains, there are a ton of others that love it.
I regularly have to fight tooth and nail to get icebox voted in instead of one of the new ones.
I'm sure this kind of response isnt new for lots of game devs, you have to remember that there are PLENTY more people out there enjoying the things you guys make for us. "vocal minority" indeed
if they were bad maps that no one liked, they never would have been put in by the guy at the top of the coder totem pole, so that's saying something right there about your work

northstar is a GIGANTIC map with extremely spacious, gorgeously laid out departments and a maint that i'm literally terrified to walk into. it's fantastic.
but lets not forget that while sinfuls family name might have hit you in a softspot, it was still just a joke designed to get a chuckle out of people.

on the other hand, sinful - vekter has an extremely good point by saying that that family name was just noise-- it helps nothing but to get people more riled up

honestly, this is kind of what makes /tg/ and this community great, first, just allowing the peanut threads, second, the chance for someone like Chesh to be able to, in a thread like this, straight up come out and say hey man this shit really hurts, for us all to see in the open, discuss it, and learn how we can be just a little less cunty

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:52 am E: Also also I expected to get dragged HARD for this so I'm pretty shocked tbh

I'm glad people are getting as tired as I am over blatant and ceaseless dev hatred. I don't know if anything will change rules-wise, but having supporters is nice.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:04 am Vect0rs right chesh, for every person that complains, there are a ton of others that love it.
I regularly have to fight tooth and nail to get icebox voted in instead of one of the new ones.
I'm sure this kind of response isnt new for lots of game devs, you have to remember that there are PLENTY more people out there enjoying the things you guys make for us. "vocal minority" indeed
if they were bad maps that no one liked, they never would have been put in by the guy at the top of the coder totem pole, so that's saying something right there about your work

northstar is a GIGANTIC map with extremely spacious, gorgeously laid out departments and a maint that i'm literally terrified to walk into. it's fantastic.
but lets not forget that while sinfuls family name might have hit you in a softspot, it was still just a joke designed to get a chuckle out of people.

on the other hand, sinful - vekter has an extremely good point by saying that that family name was just noise-- it helps nothing but to get people more riled up

honestly, this is kind of what makes /tg/ and this community great, first, just allowing the peanut threads, second, the chance for someone like Chesh to be able to, in a thread like this, straight up come out and say hey man this shit really hurts, for us all to see in the open, discuss it, and learn how we can be just a little less cunty

A few points - I love the feedback, I'm glad you're enjoying it. I don't hate Sinful or think they're targeting me, it's just another one of those tiny niggling things that adds on the pile of shit that MMMiracles, Zytolg, and I get.

I do like that this peanut thread is very supportive, and I believe the community is genuinely improving and are finding a center closer to playful riffing than toxic cesspool.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:39 am Yeah no, this name sucks. It's not even just a naming policy thing, it's a rule 1 thing

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:43 am Name sucks, this deserves the note and is just in general rule 1 stuff.

Rule 1 doesn't apply to antagonists like nukies who are sent to blow everyone up, nor is it there to protect a non-sentient entity like a map.

As for why Northstar and Birdshot were chosen -- they seemed to fit with Tram best for the gag. As I said, I like Northstar too. There is a difference between harassing the developer of a map OOC and shitting on a bunch of maps as a nukeop who literally hates NT and has to destroy one of them. If you can't appreciate the difference IDK what to tell you, nukies aren't a god damn developer supportgroup they're an elite squad of assholes sent to destroy places.

Kendrickorium wrote:on the other hand, sinful - vekter has an extremely good point by saying that that family name was just noise-- it helps nothing but to get people more riled up

YEAH, RILE THINGS UP, GET MAD, GET SPICY, YOU'RE A NUCLEAR OPERATIVE SENT TO BLOW THE WHOLE PLACE TO SMITHEREENS!! Fuck everything? I'm sorry my nukie name wasn't G-rated that took everyone's OOC feelings into account, but I'm trying to roleplay as a serial terrorist murderer here.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:09 am

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:39 am Yeah no, this name sucks. It's not even just a naming policy thing, it's a rule 1 thing

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:43 am Name sucks, this deserves the note and is just in general rule 1 stuff.

Rule 1 doesn't apply to antagonists like nukies who are sent to blow everyone up, nor is it there to protect a non-sentient entity like a map.

As for why Northstar and Birdshot were chosen -- they seemed to fit with Tram best for the gag. As I said, I like Northstar too. There is a difference between harassing the developer of a map OOC and shitting on a bunch of maps as a nukeop who literally hates NT and has to destroy one of them. If you can't appreciate the difference IDK what to tell you, nukies aren't a god damn developer supportgroup they're an elite squad of assholes sent to destroy places.

Kendrickorium wrote:on the other hand, sinful - vekter has an extremely good point by saying that that family name was just noise-- it helps nothing but to get people more riled up

YEAH, RILE THINGS UP, GET MAD, GET SPICY, YOU'RE A NUCLEAR OPERATIVE SENT TO BLOW THE WHOLE PLACE TO SMITHEREENS!! Fuck everything? I'm sorry my nukie name wasn't G-rated, but grow a thicker skin!

ehhhh you know i love you to death sinful, but your reasoning feels extremely flimsy
like this is one of those excuses that just kind of elicits eyeball rolls from everyone that hears it, like, come on, we know why you named it that. you didnt stop and think for 5 minutes about your backstory to why youre naming your family FUCK THIS FUCK THIS FUCK THIS, ya know

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:18 am ehhhh you know i love you to death sinful, but your reasoning feels extremely flimsy
like this is one of those excuses that just kind of elicits eyeball rolls from everyone that hears it, like, come on, we know why you named it that. you didnt stop and think for 5 minutes about your backstory to why youre naming your family FUCK THIS FUCK THIS FUCK THIS, ya know

Your sense of humor is based on your OOC beliefs, and it was funnier with these newer controversial maps. Who cares? Terrorist nukeop has to worry about the offensiveness of his family name? Come on man, how much more hugboxy can you get.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:02 am I have things to say about this one.

I get constant nonstop fucking messages about "I HATE X" "I HATE Y" about the map and I'm so fucking sick and tired of it. It's got me burned out from all development aspects. I have like 5 massive PRs i want to do with it but I just don't care anymore because I can't sit in my own discord thread/the mapper channel/the forum thread/the manuel discord without people going off just taking about how shit it is without telling me how I can fix it. It's very disheartening to hear "X BAD" without being told what I can do to fix it, why it's bad, why the idea behind it's bad, or anything else.

It is everywhere. I cannot go anywhere in the community because I'm told straight to my face that the project I care about is shit without any constructive feedback behind it. I literally do not want to play the game, admin, or contribute because it feels like feeding a pack of coyotes that'll just gnaw at my arm.

Frankly, the justification that "it's all the new maps that nuke ops want to blow up" is so bullshit. Sinful has to think Vekter is an idiot for him to believe that.

i genuinely love it it's a badass map

People are showing basic kindness game is a hugbox

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:27 am People are showing basic kindness game is a hugbox

Making a terrorist organization tasked with exploding NT stations sterilize their family name so as not to offend mappers that made those stations is hugboxy, yeah.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:27 am People are showing basic kindness game is a hugbox

stay on Manuel.

I haven't played on Northstar yet but I've heard that it's way too big and has a very confusing layout. Take that for what you will, but I'm sure you've heard that same exact thing a thousand times over by now.

On topic about the actual peanut, if you can get a note for a name like that, can you get a note for saying you don't like a map in OOC since you're technically being a dick to the mapper who made it? If you say you don't like a new feature/removal in OOC, is that a rule violation to the coder who made the change? If those examples don't count, why does it count for nuclear operative names? Where is the line in the sand drawn differently? Sorry to play the devil's advocate here, but I'm curious on the justification.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:23 am

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:18 am ehhhh you know i love you to death sinful, but your reasoning feels extremely flimsy
like this is one of those excuses that just kind of elicits eyeball rolls from everyone that hears it, like, come on, we know why you named it that. you didnt stop and think for 5 minutes about your backstory to why youre naming your family FUCK THIS FUCK THIS FUCK THIS, ya know

Your sense of humor is based on your OOC beliefs, and it was funnier with these newer controversial maps. Who cares? Terrorist nukeop has to worry about the offensiveness of his family name? Come on man, how much more hugboxy can you get.

yeah, i agree, in that this shoudnt have been a note, but rather a friendly conversation about thinking a little harder about family names?
vekter made it pretty clear that he was just trying to stem the hate tide, and after chesh's confession about how it all makes him feel, can you really blame him?

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:38 am I haven't played on Northstar yet but [opinion on northstar]

maybe you should go play it first

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:38 am On topic about the actual peanut, if you can get a note for a name like that, can you get a note for saying you don't like a map in OOC since you're technically being a dick to the mapper who made it? If you say you don't like a new feature/removal in OOC, is that a rule violation to the coder who made the change? If those examples don't count, why does it count for nuclear operative names? Where is the line in the sand drawn differently? Sorry to play the devil's advocate here, but I'm curious on the justification.

you can mute ooc you cant mute obnoxious dickery using lastnames

maybe nuclear operative names are supposed to suck

i dont think people would have given a single damn if the op names were “fuck delta fuck meta” - i cant say i give a damn either way. it’s really funny to have nuclear operatives with headstrong names like this that go on to fluke and die

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:09 am Rule 1 doesn't apply to antagonists like nukies who are sent to blow everyone up, nor is it there to protect a non-sentient entity like a map.

It's not protecting the map, it's protecting the creator of the map, who is, or at least was, a player before getting harrassed out of the game by things like this. To you, it's a lighthearted "hahaha get it guys i'm joking about not liking the map", to them, it's yet another slap in the face they've received for dedicating a large amount of their time to a project.
Rule 4 affords no out of character protections. You can't bully someone in OOC just because you're an antagonist in the round, as an example. Setting a nukie name is an OOC act. Your character doesn't choose their family name at the start of their mission; you're not interacting with a console, or saying something, to change your name. It's a completely OOC prompt with very few, mostly non-impactful IC consequences.
Setting your nukie name to FUCK TRAM ALL MY HOMIES HATE TRAM isn't going to do much beyond annoy players who like tram. You aren't rewarded for or encouraged to have a stupid or funny name.

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:38 am On topic about the actual peanut, if you can get a note for a name like that, can you get a note for saying you don't like a map in OOC since you're technically being a dick to the mapper who made it? If you say you don't like a new feature/removal in OOC, is that a rule violation to the coder who made the change? If those examples don't count, why does it count for nuclear operative names? Where is the line in the sand drawn differently? Sorry to play the devil's advocate here, but I'm curious on the justification.

IMO it ultimately depends on how far you go. It's very contextual.
If you go on a full crag-tier rant about how the coders are dung-guzzling wankers that eat raw alligator cocks for breakfast because they removed nanites, I could see an admin muting OOC and giving you a stern talking to. "I don't like <X map>" is probably fine. going into detail is probably fine. it's when you're abusive or excessive about it that it becomes a harassment issue. Expletives generally don't lend themselves well to constructive criticism.
When you take it into a nukie name, you're taking OOC (your opinion of the map) into IC(your character's last name).

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:34 am stay on Manuel.

>someone says they struggle with people verbally abusing them/their work on a regular basis
>proceeds to use weird server tribalism & rib them
I don't care if this is serious or not, the timing seems real off. You kinda suck.

I was just saying what I've most prominently heard, no need for the hostile shutdown. I didn't say that was my opinion or anything, just what I've seen others say.

As for being able to mute OOC, I don't think that would save anyone from a rule 1 violation in any other instance, so I don't that it should apply here either.

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:35 am I was just saying what I've most prominently heard, no need for the hostile shutdown. I didn't say that was my opinion or anything, just what I've seen others say.

As for being able to mute OOC, I don't think that would save anyone from a rule 1 violation in any other instance, so I don't that it should apply here either.

I don't know, naming yourself and your team "Something FUCK X" and parading it around as you kill people sounds more insulting than a simple "I don't like X" in OOC or Deadchat

Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:39 am I don't know, naming yourself and your team "Something FUCK X" and parading it around as you kill people sounds more insulting than a simple "I don't like X" in OOC or Deadchat

But it's not a simple "I don't like X" in deadchat or ooc. Usually, it's "Fuck Tram", "Fuck Birdshit", etc... And usually it ends up being a number of messages about the subject rather than just one.

A note is getting off lightly

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:29 am Making a terrorist organization tasked with exploding NT stations sterilize their family name so as not to offend mappers that made those stations is hugboxy, yeah.

Not being allowed to act like a retard isnt "hugboxing"

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:29 am Making a terrorist organization tasked with exploding NT stations sterilize their family name so as not to offend mappers that made those stations is hugboxy, yeah.

You do realise that toxicity like this is exactly why i'm a headcoder becuase most normal people take one look at this and walk away having never gotten past surface level.

Everything you hate about me is a reflection of the kind of backwards regressive wiring you have to have to deal with people like you constantly directing a low level of shittery against the people who are supposed to be making the game better for the sole reason that it makes you personally laugh.

normal people dont' cope with that shit well, they stop contributing and they give up, the only people who keep going are people who have low empathy and respect for others.

if you want things to change you have to make a systematic effort to eliminate the noise which will involve admins stamping it out.

oranges wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:53 am You do realise that toxicity like this is exactly why i'm a headcoder becuase most normal people take one look at this and walk away having never gotten past surface level.

Everything you hate about me is a reflection of the kind of backwards regressive wiring you have to have to deal with people like you constantly directing a low level of shittery against the people who are supposed to be making the game better for the sole reason that it makes you personally laugh.

normal people dont' cope with that shit well, they stop contributing and they give up, the only people who keep going are people who have low empathy and respect for others.

if you want things to change you have to make a systematic effort to eliminate the noise which will involve admins stamping it out.

You are not a martyr that bravely absorbs the vitriol of the masses so that the development team doesn't have to, you are actually just a pretentious jackass. Stop fucking with the community for digg upvotes and you'll get less hatred directed at you.

lol stop being toxic to devs and you wont have a pretentious jackass who fucks with you for fun as a leader

oranges wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:18 am lol stop being toxic to devs and you wont have a pretentious jackass who fucks with you for fun as a leader

I frankly dont care what you choose to do, its just bizarre that you seemingly try your very hardest to be hated, and then cry on the forums about how people hate you

no no, you're confused, i'm not upset that people hate me, I don't like that they hate people like chesify who are literally super nice and do nothing to them but try to contribute their passion.

because that's exactly what allows the situation where I am the headcoder despite all of my negative flaws.

I argued against this in bus ADMINBUS LEAK DEADMIN HIM NOW but we're bumping up against that bloody note rule again. I'm increasingly thinking the bar to get a note over-turned is too high. The rules lawyer in me concedes it's factually correct and not unreasonably harsh

I don't care that somebody hates something, I think that the name just sucks, it's not witty in any way.

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:51 am

Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:39 am I don't know, naming yourself and your team "Something FUCK X" and parading it around as you kill people sounds more insulting than a simple "I don't like X" in OOC or Deadchat

But it's not a simple "I don't like X" in deadchat or ooc. Usually, it's "Fuck Tram", "Fuck Birdshit", etc... And usually it ends up being a number of messages about the subject rather than just one.

I agree that both suck but it's hard to qualify for OOC because it's basically a small activity in OOC and then nothing else for the rest of the shift. ALso it's difficult to gauge which is ironic.

Meanwhile you get to see this "name" for the whole shift if your team leader decides to be "funny".

AsbestosSniffer wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:52 am I don't care that somebody hates something

Man I don't even hate Northstar, I think the map's real cool. Exploring it in a private server as we speak. (Because I am not a nuclear operative IRL)

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:15 am

AsbestosSniffer wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:52 am I don't care that somebody hates something

Man I don't even hate Northstar, I think the map's real cool. Exploring it in a private server as we speak. (Because I am not a nuclear operative IRL)

Yeah well the name still sucked and you should feel bad!!! I curse you!!

Like dude check this out perma has a binoculars in one of the rooms so you can peak out deep into space

all im saying… sinful is lucky i wasnt there when he added “FUCK BIRDSHOT” to the name. Things wouldve gone real different…

Destructive, senseless criticism is the death of open source. oranges is right, there, people burn out and quit. All Vekter did was moderate protecting contributors. It's not "hugboxy" to moderate this kind of bullshit.

I don't like Birdshot and Northstar, but I see them improving over time and I got no reason or right to just go ballistic at them.

You gotta have platinum prospected in the dent of your skull to believe the hodgepodge sinful's come up with.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:02 am I have things to say about this one.

I get constant nonstop fucking messages about "I HATE X" "I HATE Y" about the map and I'm so fucking sick and tired of it. It's got me burned out from all development aspects. I have like 5 massive PRs i want to do with it but I just don't care anymore because I can't sit in my own discord thread/the mapper channel/the forum thread/the manuel discord without people going off just taking about how shit it is without telling me how I can fix it. It's very disheartening to hear "X BAD" without being told what I can do to fix it, why it's bad, why the idea behind it's bad, or anything else.

It is everywhere. I cannot go anywhere in the community because I'm told straight to my face that the project I care about is shit without any constructive feedback behind it. I literally do not want to play the game, admin, or contribute because it feels like feeding a pack of coyotes that'll just gnaw at my arm.

Frankly, the justification that "it's all the new maps that nuke ops want to blow up" is so bullshit. Sinful has to think Vekter is an idiot for him to believe that.

North star isnt bad persay, Its just to big and multi-z levels make it hell to try to stop anything or repair anything. If it was just a 2 z-level ship then yea it would be pretty good. It just look like you built the departments then just added all the maints and shit.

I don't like birdshot (this is because I'm a medical player, and the medbay feels kinda like a claustrophobic nightmare space - that, and the disconnected morgue AAAAAAAAAA)

however
I like having an updated, open-source codebase contributed to by people who give a shit about the game
outside of "the people contributing being assholes" (sadly happens sometimes) we should be nice to the people who spend their time and efforts to make sure that the game we like to play is Fresh, New, and Exciting:tm:

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:27 am People are showing basic kindness game is a hugbox

no i get very autistic about the things i like and i'm very particular

my tastes in all media and sensory feedback in general is usually better than everyone else's to the point my opinions are morally just and right