Bottled anger peanut

[MooCow12]

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34122

What did they mean by sec trying to arrest them for having bubblegum gear though?

[Archie700]

You really shouldn't use this as a non-antag. The 'RIP AND TEAR' objective overrides any allegiances.

This implies that the object gives players a sort of antag objective, which is a higher tier above brainwashing, construct orders and silicon laws.

With that in mind, failing to follow your objective could be seen as FailRP, because if an antagonist used the item but no one began killing each other, then what's the point of it being in the game in the first place? An item that, mind you, especifically states as your objective:

KILL, KILL, KILL! YOU HAVE NO ALLIES ANYMORE, KILL THEM ALL!

The megafauna wiki page is not policy so all of this is kind of moot. Why would the bottle of mayhem's flavortext qualify as a forced objective whereas the "your mind shatters... [DO BAD THING]" flavortext is flufftext?

yea no, obviously it gives you a pass to kill or the item just doesn't function. come on sinful.
"sorry bro i know someone broke a bottle that told you to kill everyone and glued a chainsaw to your hands, but you killed someone without rule 4 protection or escalation so i'm going to have to ban you." -things no admin will ever say

Because it's sort of just implied that everyone can kill each other with mayhem in a bottle. AFAIK it's not sketched into policy, it's just commonsense so admins treat it as if it were a real objective. But if it's not technically required that everyone kill each other then it definitely can't be compared to a maxcap.

It's a rare enough item that I think this is incident is kind of funny and I would have allowed it.

pretty much this in sum

The fact that it gives people the option of killing each other with no repercussion for 2 minutes is why it's considered griefing to use it as a non-antag to begin with.
Not everyone is going to do nothing during those two minutes and trying to justify using it in any way except antag tricks is a hard sell AT BEST because people killing each other is the entire point of this item.
As long as a few people start killing, it's going to turn into a deathmatch.

What's fun for you might not be fun for other people on the shuttle, believe it or not not everyone wants to be suddenly thrust into a deathmatch.

[mindstormy]

"It's ok because each and every individual affected could have chosen not to kill others when I gave them a free pass to kill each other without being punished for it" is not a good excuse.

I would like to call into question whether or not it's truly a "free pass." Does it give you a hypno objective? An antag HUD? Nothing? It's just flavortext? If it's just the flavortext "RIP AND TEAR" then I would like to share an anecdote of a time a wizard used a spell that caused me to get a "YOUR MIND SHATTERS... KILL EVERYONE" flavortext in giant rainbow colors. I ahelped and was told it was just flufftext. Isn't this the same?

Now you might say, "well it's commonsense you get a free pass it literally glues a chainsaw to your hands and tells you to rip and tear." If that's the case then perhaps people shouldn't fuck with the guy that has mayhem in a bottle lest they wish for their surroundings to become mayhem in a bottle.

I think whoever told you that about wizard text is wrong. If your mind shatters and you get text to kill everyone you should be allowed to kill everyone.

[Archie700]

"It's ok because each and every individual affected could have chosen not to kill others when I gave them a free pass to kill each other without being punished for it" is not a good excuse.

I would like to call into question whether or not it's truly a "free pass." Does it give you a hypno objective? An antag HUD? Nothing? It's just flavortext? If it's just the flavortext "RIP AND TEAR" then I would like to share an anecdote of a time a wizard used a spell that caused me to get a "YOUR MIND SHATTERS... KILL EVERYONE" flavortext in giant rainbow colors. I ahelped and was told it was just flufftext. Isn't this the same?

Now you might say, "well it's commonsense you get a free pass it literally glues a chainsaw to your hands and tells you to rip and tear." If that's the case then perhaps people shouldn't fuck with the guy that has mayhem in a bottle lest they wish for their surroundings to become mayhem in a bottle.

I think whoever told you that about wizard text is wrong. If your mind shatters and you get text to kill everyone you should be allowed to kill everyone.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Wizard#Rituals

It does not say that the people affected have to follow the order as written, only that whatever is said is the catalyst for the Curse of Madness.
If people followed the order of the Curse of Madness then it would be highly picked because turning people against each other is very advantageous to a wizard.
In fact this is literally the first time I have heard about this.

[Epicgamer545]

I mistakened the bottle of mayhem with this ruling.

[Archie700]

This is about the (now removed) blood contract but apparently the bottle of mayhem falls under the same principle.

[mindstormy]

Yeah I def hear what you guys are saying. But we shouldn't expect players who get text to kill people to know about random headmin rulings that say in those specific instances you are not allowed to kill people.

[Archie700]

Yeah I def hear what you guys are saying. But we shouldn't expect players who get text to kill people to know about random headmin rulings that say in those specific instances you are not allowed to kill people.

Yes, but I feel it's best to correct misconceptions about what you can and cannot do.
If people didn't know about it they should at least be given a slap of the wrist and told how to do it properly.
In this case, it did not happen. The guy knew what it did and still activated it in the emergency shuttle in a crowd after being stunned for announcing it.

[Lacran]

I feel like sinful just throws shitty arguements at the wall hoping something sticks when in reality it's that he just inexplicably wants it that way.

[Cobby]

Knowingly and maliciously breaking the rules because you made up the rule that you're allowed to use whatever dangerous object you find just screams bad faith.

this actually used to be policy eons ago lol.

If you got boss content you were allowed to use it. Its still baffling how no one has changed the drops to not be worthless if you arent antag.