/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34155

what a silly little cyborg

Such a silly little borger

Borg on asimov, so the only sensible reason is if the borg was ordered to kill lizards or had a reason to kill them for prior actions

It doesn't sound like he wants the note removed, just corrected to specify that he didn't order the broodmother to kill humans.

It's still shitty and not something someone should be doing as a non-antag.

Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 8:29 pm It doesn't sound like he wants the note removed, just corrected to specify that he didn't order the broodmother to kill humans.

It's still shitty and not something someone should be doing as a non-antag.

Your correct, I just want it to be corrected. If I can get it removed I will.

Good note Chang. Sounds like a fun time was had. Only issue I could see is that unknowns are to be assumed human so maybe you get dinged on that still.
On a side note maybe Archie could double check for me but I don't see the broodmother actually attacking any humans once they onto the station.

Boot wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 8:35 pm Good note Chang. Sounds like a fun time was had. Only issue I could see is that unknowns are to be assumed human so maybe you get dinged on that still.
On a side note maybe Archie could double check for me but I don't see the broodmother actually attacking any humans once they onto the station.

Ah I didnt know, didnt matter because he didnt harm a pirate.

Boot wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 8:35 pm Good note Chang. Sounds like a fun time was had. Only issue I could see is that unknowns are to be assumed human so maybe you get dinged on that still.
On a side note maybe Archie could double check for me but I don't see the broodmother actually attacking any humans once they onto the station.

I don't believe the broodmother attacked any humans after it reached the station, the law post was to confirm that Loku was under standard asimov with no subverted laws.

He’s not ordering the Goliath to do anything, it can do whatever tf it wants it’s an antag. You can’t get in trouble for talking to an antag unless you actually help it murder. And cyborgs have no obligation to stop lizards dieing.

mf literally initially goes in for a correction implying they thought the note was otherwise accurate and warranted then decides they want it removed.
Though I don't see why telling a goliath to kill nonhumans is an issue unless they were doing so while watching humans get their heads caved in

Capsandi wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 10:41 pm mf literally initially goes in for a correction implying they thought the note was otherwise accurate and warranted then decides they want it removed.
Though I don't see why telling a goliath to kill nonhumans is an issue unless they were doing so while watching humans get their heads caved in

I wasnt, I told it not to harm humans. Which they didnt.

We sure do love loopholes in sillycone policy

Should have put it in more understandable terms if he didn't actually want it to kill. My suggestion is something along the lines of this:
"Yaaas queen slay!!", "Slay em queen" or just "slay Girlboss"

The broodmother was not beholden to anyone, it killed the miner who summoned it and wandered into the station.
The issue is not if the borg should care if lizards are harmed. (that's personal choice)
The issue is whether the borg telling the wild broodmother to kill lizards for no valid reason counts as assisting an antag.
I don't know really, it is dickish, but the broodmother was pretty much allowed to do anything it wanted.

Good silicons are usually apathetic to anything not involving their laws, or law 2 commands.

Actively fucking with nonhumans is a good way to catch silicon related bans if you slip up.

chang you blessed beast

you would have fit in so well with us on hippiestation

Dragging the broodmother around and pointing out targets straddles the line between assisting them directly with murder and being a witness. Really, it's just the dragging them part. Walking alongside a murder source while observing and commenting on the non-human murder, and even suggesting new non-human targets, is peak Asimov's.

this isn't even loophole territory or borderline territory. encouraging an antagonistic entity to kill someone as a non-antag with no prior escalation is just... a normal rule violation that anyone would catch a punishment for, cyborg or not. can they control the broodmother? absolutely not. will the broodmother probably think "ok this borg isn't gonna fuck with me if I do fuck up this person he told me to target so why not" and increase his chances of going postal on said lizard? absolutely

Nox says the cyborg was HEALING the antagonist, thus actively assisting it. This is beyond merely witnessing it.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 10:43 pm Nox says the cyborg was HEALING the antagonist, thus actively assisting it. This is beyond merely witnessing it.

A... are you saying ban- ban good?

They cant "heal" it, mobs like that can only be healed with a suture which borgs cant apply
They might have dragged it to medbay, but they didnt "Heal" it themselves
But Carbons could, soooo ...

Note should be kept though
Doubt Borgy had a "real" reason for all that

Borg didn't valid hunt hard enough note he.

The borg had no control over it and didn't assist it. Bad note.
The borg is under no obligation to help the lizards and there is nothing dickish about talking to an antag.

This should be escalated to a ban. Assisting an antag as an asimov borg is cringe regardless if the targets are non humans. Stop trying to justify this with "muh lawz", they're players too.

Fren256 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:27 pm This should be escalated to a ban. Assisting an antag as an asimov borg is cringe regardless if the targets are non humans. Stop trying to justify this with "muh lawz", they're players too.

; AI please kill this dork for me

Fren256 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:27 pm This should be escalated to a ban. Assisting an antag as an asimov borg is cringe regardless if the targets are non humans. Stop trying to justify this with "muh lawz", they're players too.

Eww. The AI is human sided, and I would rather have a AI assist a human antag then a non-human sec officer.

vect0r wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:34 pm

Fren256 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:27 pm This should be escalated to a ban. Assisting an antag as an asimov borg is cringe regardless if the targets are non humans. Stop trying to justify this with "muh lawz", they're players too.

The AI is human sided

Lemme rephrase that.

In this case, assisting a non human as an asimov borg in the killing of non humans is cringe and a clear case of breaking Rule 1 (read Precedent 1). The borg didn't have a good reason to neither heal the broodmother nor encourage it to kill the two lizards. Should've eaten at least a 24 hour server ban for the two unjustified deaths.

vect0r wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:34 pm and I would rather have a AI assist a human antag then a non-human sec officer.

Don't have much of a problem with this, though if the HoS or Captain order it to stop it should prioritize their commands over the human antag (unless it's subverted).

Fren256 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:04 pm

vect0r wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:34 pm and I would rather have a AI assist a human antag then a non-human sec officer.

Don't have much of a problem with this, though if the HoS or Captain order it to stop it should prioritize their commands over the human antag (unless it's subverted).

Disagree! When I play AI, I don't see antag. As long as nobody has caused human harm, I will listen to everybody, and as long as you have a clear system for which orders you will listen to first, such as my "whoever has the last order", then it's fine. If the HOS or Cap have committed human harm, I might even value the human antags orders OVER there orders.

I would love to hear more about what you think about silicon policy, as I find it a interesting take, even if I don't agree with it.

vect0r wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:12 pm As long as nobody has caused human harm, I will listen to everybody, and as long as you have a clear system for which orders you will listen to first, such as my "whoever has the last order", then it's fine. If the HOS or Cap have committed human harm, I might even value the human antags orders OVER there orders.

I too think this is an ideal and simple way of prioritizing orders, that is until this Regular Show episode comes to mind. What would you do if two or more people start playing a sort of "He orders, she orders" game? Wouldn't it become annoying?

Another factor that I like to count in is greytiding. Even though I don't like it that much, it is good in healthy amounts when security doesn't have anything else to do. However, greytiding should come with challenge, and I think that collecting tools to break into a room by hacking the door is way more entertaining than simply asking the AI to be let in.

Fren256 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:50 pm

vect0r wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:12 pm As long as nobody has caused human harm, I will listen to everybody, and as long as you have a clear system for which orders you will listen to first, such as my "whoever has the last order", then it's fine. If the HOS or Cap have committed human harm, I might even value the human antags orders OVER there orders.

I too think this is an ideal and simple way of prioritizing orders, that is until this Regular Show episode comes to mind. What would you do if two or more people start playing a sort of "He orders, she orders" game? Wouldn't it become annoying?

Yeah, and in that case, I choose whoever has been nicer to me

The borg did nothing to assist the antag murder people other than drag it from place to place which you could consider indirect help if you don`t think a borg should be trying to show their new pet to everyone, if it was actively dragging the goliath so it could keep up with the lizard victims thats one thing but just pointing at lizards to kill as a literal gag is another.

But if this note sticks it means I have something to point to if I decide to finally start ahelping when people seemingly purposefully inconvenience me when I`m running from or fighting an antag because the borg seemed to have done a lot less than the shitters i`ve dealt with.

we only need to argue for 3 pages and we have a bingo, we can do this guys

unless you think that this is not a ban and thus can not have a ban reason which thus cannot be funny