/tg/Station 13

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/75933

All we need now is hooch back

Based pr.

>The officer's sabre has gained a small amount of bloodthrist for assistants!

you know what, i say go full throttle with this pr

give assistants a +20 percent speed buff while in maint, let them live there

Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

I would much rather have the assistant as the fuckoff job than the service department dude. It grinds my ass to dust every time a shitter takes a janitor job just to tide and break shit. Let me clean you dirty fuck

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:58 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

I would much rather have the assistant as the fuckoff job than the service department dude. It grinds my ass to dust every time a shitter takes a janitor job just to tide and break shit. Let me clean you dirty fuck

I would much rather there not be any fuck-off jobs and people get that part of things out of their system on antag rounds.

That my good friend sounds like I know just the server for you…

Back to good faith for a moment, this is a game and taking it so serious is how you suck the fun out of it. No one is harmed because assistant exists as a low stress role.

(I was not referring to you as a dirty fuck by the by, I was referring to the assistant who stole my job)

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:58 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

I would much rather have the assistant as the fuckoff job than the service department dude. It grinds my ass to dust every time a shitter takes a janitor job just to tide and break shit. Let me clean you dirty fuck

a lot of people take up engineer jobs the sole purpose of easy access to tools and insuls.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

this would be a decent idea for manuel, but even on any server, sometimes its nice to just kick back at the bar as an assistant and not have anything required of you

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:36 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:58 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

I would much rather have the assistant as the fuckoff job than the service department dude. It grinds my ass to dust every time a shitter takes a janitor job just to tide and break shit. Let me clean you dirty fuck

a lot of people take up engineer jobs the sole purpose of easy access to tools and insuls.

Yeah I see this way to often, engineers running around doing fuckall while the SM delams and there's breaches everywhere.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:37 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

this would be a decent idea for manuel, but even on any server, sometimes its nice to just kick back at the bar as an assistant and not have anything required of you

I don't really see an issue with some jobs doing this as long as there's not something critical going on they could be doing. Engineers hanging out at the bar is perfectly okay if the engine's already running and there's no emergencies.

Hell, on LRP, we can't even actually ban you for this as long as you're not command. There's no obligation to do your job as long as you're not actively ruining the round for everyone else. The closest thing I can imagine is Engineering refusing to set up the engine/solars but past that I don't care on LRP.

BeeSting12 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:42 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:36 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:58 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

I would much rather have the assistant as the fuckoff job than the service department dude. It grinds my ass to dust every time a shitter takes a janitor job just to tide and break shit. Let me clean you dirty fuck

a lot of people take up engineer jobs the sole purpose of easy access to tools and insuls.

Yeah I see this way to often, engineers running around doing fuckall while the SM delams and there's breaches everywhere.

Look if you play engineering dept to be captain save a hull then more power to you but the real ones spend their rounds in the turbine room or trying to push the sm engine until it delams. Maybe you should teach the assistants to use metal to fix breaches because that's glorified janitor work we're busy trying to make numbers go up.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:05 pm

BeeSting12 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:42 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:36 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:58 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

I would much rather have the assistant as the fuckoff job than the service department dude. It grinds my ass to dust every time a shitter takes a janitor job just to tide and break shit. Let me clean you dirty fuck

a lot of people take up engineer jobs the sole purpose of easy access to tools and insuls.

Yeah I see this way to often, engineers running around doing fuckall while the SM delams and there's breaches everywhere.

Look if you play engineering dept to be captain save a hull then more power to you but the real ones spend their rounds in the turbine room or trying to push the sm engine until it delams. Maybe you should teach the assistants to use metal to fix breaches because that's glorified janitor work we're busy trying to make numbers go up.

Nah that's a good use of the engineering role. I was talking about the people who use engineering for the free tools/gloves and tide. Personally I don't mind fixing hull breaches as an engi it's just that if medical blows up it doesn't matter if it's fixed back to pristine condition, the shuttle will still be called.

Nice, an excuse to valid assistants for their livers.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

assistant is what i roll when i know i've only got like 30 minutes tops and dont wanna waste a job slot when i have to leave after that. i get to run around, talk to people, play dressup, then find a cozy hole in maint to die in

More like assistant NERF. Grey bull sips last 3 seconds longer, in exchange for deadly sabre damage.

Little did the coder know, this is merely an assistant buff since that sabre will now find its way into the grubby hands of the tide who wish to cause mayhem against their grey brothers and sisters

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 10:27 pm More like assistant NERF. Grey bull sips last 3 seconds longer, in exchange for deadly sabre damage.

Little did the coder know, this is merely an assistant buff since that sabre will now find its way into the grubby hands of the tide who wish to cause mayhem against their grey brothers and sisters

THE SABRE HUNGERS AND IT WILL BE SATED EITHER WAY

Limit assistants to 3 per sec officer. We need more security players anyway.

BeeSting12 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:20 pm

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:05 pm

BeeSting12 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:42 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 8:36 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:58 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

I would much rather have the assistant as the fuckoff job than the service department dude. It grinds my ass to dust every time a shitter takes a janitor job just to tide and break shit. Let me clean you dirty fuck

a lot of people take up engineer jobs the sole purpose of easy access to tools and insuls.

Yeah I see this way to often, engineers running around doing fuckall while the SM delams and there's breaches everywhere.

Look if you play engineering dept to be captain save a hull then more power to you but the real ones spend their rounds in the turbine room or trying to push the sm engine until it delams. Maybe you should teach the assistants to use metal to fix breaches because that's glorified janitor work we're busy trying to make numbers go up.

Nah that's a good use of the engineering role. I was talking about the people who use engineering for the free tools/gloves and tide. Personally I don't mind fixing hull breaches as an engi it's just that if medical blows up it doesn't matter if it's fixed back to pristine condition, the shuttle will still be called.

Exactly. There's no point to fixing the station when people call the shuttle anyway. You just ruin your own round trying to fix things that people are too impatient to wait for. Plus engineers don't have any unique skills for rebuilding rooms. Anyone can fix a hull breach, build a canister, and then fill it outside of engineering.
Tcomms is the only thing I wouldn't expect normal players to know to fix, because I don't know how to fix it. Fuck tcomms.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

I have a good argument against doing this.
Forcing assistant mains to play other jobs will see them doing the same thing they normally do with a differently colored jumpsuit and more access, while depriving the station of a valuable job slot.
Source: I would do this.

careful if you're too happy about it I'll just close it, it's a nerf, right???

assistant livers should make lizards puke when they eat them from all the maint gunk in em

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

we have 60 job slots and 130 players sometimes

Fikou wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:48 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

we have 60 job slots and 130 players sometimes

Just make one job the designated overflow job

Fikou wrote: ↑Sat Jun 10, 2023 7:48 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

we have 60 job slots and 130 players sometimes

Yeah, good point. I don't really have a solution for that.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm Put a time cap on assistants and force players to play something else after 30 hours, then implement interns for another 30 hours to indicate that someone's new to the game.

The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you.

The only arguments I've heard against this are "SOUL", "You hate fun", and "People need a way to blow off steam/just goof off sometimes" and two of those are dumb and the third is fair but they could also just play a service job and screw around with that, at the very least they'd have some kind of direction to do something constructive.

Okay vekter, I will take up slot of a real job to get borged, or to just walk around and try doing something in ghetto way.

Do we really have 60 assistants running around during peak times? Sounds unbearable.

Part of the HoPs job is to assign staff to departments and adjust job slots (never gonna happen, impossible, byond reason)

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:15 am Part of the HoPs job is to assign staff to departments and adjust job slots (never gonna happen, impossible, byond reason)

A line of 60 assistants for the hop at peak to do administrative duty for free. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy and hop really is the janny spirit animal of ss13.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2023 7:43 pm The kind of people who do things like break random shit and start fights because they're bored do so because assistant has literally nothing to do that isn't "act like an idiot" unless you assist other jobs, at which point you might as well get to pick which job that is and get an indicator that other players should be helping you

I'm not convinced it is the role that is the issue. I think it has more to do with a cultural phenomenon that pushes players to succeed, and that involves a degree of selfishness and kleptomania at the expense of others. I think that isn't a role specific action, or at the very least those who do use the assistant role while playing like that are doing so because they believe it is a courtesy to others to not deprive them of an actual job slot while they play the way they do. If you move them into another role, they may actually still play the way they did before. Certainly, I've encountered tiders in almost any role. Some of the worst ones I've ever encountered utilize roundstart gear to make this even easier, and utilizing the assistant role is seen more of a self-imposed restriction and statement of proficiency at what they do. Confirmation bias may be just affirming your belief that it is worse with assistants because of that aforementioned self-imposed restriction. Those people are already inclined to play like that, want to make it more difficult on themselves, and have become very good at it. If they can't do so via assistant, they'll do so however they see fit.

I think this narrative is obscuring the real goal of that change to restrict/remove assistants. It is to have these players exit the game on their own volition who are currently behaving like tiders rather than stepping in to actively curtail tide culture. And the belief is that the issue is found entirely in those who take the assistant role, so taking away that role will push them out of the culture and the behaviour. It does not align with my own experiences dealing with players who act like this. All that assistant offers is absolutely nothing, which means how they act could be more indicative of their style of play in a vacuum rather than them playing to the role.