/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:37 am**

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/76076

"I do not like the DRAGnet. It is outdated by at least a decade, and has somehow been ignored for quite some time. It used to be a secborg weapon, but somehow ended up being...not a secborg weapon. While the gun itself has an interesting premise, it is mostly used for one reason. It is a normal-sized disabler shotgun you can dual-wield and does about 60 stamina force per blast. That means you can incapacitate most opponents point blank with two of them in a single click the button.

It has a really neat teleport mechanic, but that isn't really utilized compared to it simply being an energy shotgun. It also lets you validhunt quite a bit harder by teleporting your victims to space while they are stunned. It might be a shame to lose this aspect, but honestly I think it is an acceptable loss."

i'm almost positive anne hasnt used the dragnet before

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:56 am**

nah, she definitely has. the fact that she's specifically pointing fingers at the netting mode when the snare is what get used most often (at least as far as I know) is kinda weird but thermal pistol buffs are like honey on toast.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 4:49 am**

jeff gaiman dragnet comp 12900915925 are gonna no longer be possible? gah damn

ive seen this man kill more antags with this thing, is this a salt PR?

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:17 pm**

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:37 am i'm almost positive anne hasnt used the dragnet before

I have. I don't think there is a bit of the combat system I haven't touched and tried to make work and approach honestly. I can tell you that basically I just used it as a shotgun and the bola shot was gravy on top. Disgustingly strong weapon, but it got largely ignored before and after the taser period because I feel like a few reasons. It also made me feel greasy using it...that, and I liked the feedback on the shotgun more.

I personally have tried to make use of the teleport but fighting the captain or the AI or whoever over setting the teleporters and keeping them set/off is nightmarishly annoying from sec's point of view. It really is best utilized by the HOS because they at least can enter and set the teleporters. But any engineer can come fuck up your dragnet by going and fidddling with the sat teleporters, or some scientist built their own teleporter. Tying it all to teleporters is just crap, but I'm sure at the time it was much more doable, or there were less teleporters in the maps, so it kind of just got left behind in the design around it. I can't possibly say given how old the DRAGnet is.

The spacing problem is actually not something I've experienced myself because I haven't seen as many people using the teleport as they have used it as a shotgun with a bola bullet. I've experienced the fun of being on the receiving end of the DRAGnet, most notably when I was on Bagil. There was a period where some cargo mains (notably, Brick Carr) figured out how disgusting it was and rolled around on ATVs validing with the one-tap volleys. I got to join them one round, it was disgustingly strong and kind of funny. We had just left the taser period, so people weren't expecting to get oneshot into stamina crit. What I have seen is people spacing prisoners on accident. And it left the players who experienced it utterly baffled as to why their prisoner wasn't in the brig and where they were now (for instance, a search warrant turned space homicide was a real thing I got to witness on old Sybil). If you can do it accidentally, nothing really stops you doing it deliberately. And that's my concern, really.

Thirdly, it is in the armory. Most officers can't get their hands on it, or make the most out of it for the utility it promises. The most meaningful, most applicable things about the dragnet is the damage being so high. So I believe most people will consider that first over its gimmick. They will also have to actively seek out getting it, which apparently isn't something people like doing for any non-standard gear. If they can't just immediately get it with zero interaction, they won't unless they have a particular plan in mind or it just gets given to them (the armory got opened). This sometimes is untrue if it's something focused on as a flavour of the month meta strat, or seems like it is particularly extreme in how powerful it is and how easy it is to apply (I'm thinking body tossing monkey humans, since you gotta go get a corpse for that).

Overall, this PR has invited a bunch of people towards making good suggestions as to alternatives and I think its been largely a good time talking to folk about the possibilities. Certainly, I think I'm going to work on something that is more applicable for security as a whole rather than something hidden away in the armory.

As for the pistol changes, this is an experimental pr please be patient.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:40 pm**

after playing hos multiple rounds in the rework i don't really like the idea of the hos gun having snare mode since this adds another mode for the hos gun and it just becomes bloat to cycle trough

I think a middle ground for ebola's would be better that lets you set them up on the ground like some beartrap thing so you can use it defensively if a dsworder runs at you or something in that regards while ebolas would be a more offensive approach

For the dragnets im glad they're gone and filled with a auctall usefull gun the thermal pistols though i can see the issue being able to reload them on spin i think it would be better to keep the temp mechanic since thermal/cryo pistols are really good at stacking infection/bleed wounds

In the time of tasers dragnet also havent seen use because tempguns could make you move instantly at freezing speed which was just as bad as being bolad, this case has been changed since the body temp acting faster so i think maybe a buff for temp gun doing bigger temperature changes would syngergize with thermal pistols more and then you could safely remove the spin reload function

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:42 pm**

i want thermal pistols to be used more cuz i like the noise they make more than lasers....

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 1:52 pm**

Ezel wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:40 pm i think it would be better to keep the temp mechanic since thermal/cryo pistols are really good at stacking infection/bleed wounds

Just to note, the guns still combo with temperature changes, that wasn't removed.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 1:58 pm**

yeahh but thats so super situational and the reload is pretty strong since you get no dual wield penalty so you get around 40 burn damage a shot with infections/bleed wounds

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 3:47 pm**

I've never seen it used as a shotgun, I always thought it was picked up for the rapid fire bola function. I dont really care about the drag net but it wouldn't sting if the replacement was something new instead of thermal pistols. The spin to win mechanic on those is interesting but the flavoring on them is just so lame. They look like ballistics, have almost nothing to do with temperature, and again, look like ballistics.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:10 pm**

blame lisa for using it everytime they roll captain

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:40 pm**

I've used the new thermal pistols and it's stupid fun. I wish I could spin them without having to right-click but I imagine that's a balance thing.

I've never used the DRAGNet but the change seems divisive depending on whether or not you play Sec, so it's probably a good change.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:55 pm**

I wish I could spin them without having to right-click but I imagine that's a balance thing.

tfw I move the spin to right click from use because it's just a funny cosmetic thing and not even a month later someone makes it not a cosmetic thing and thus it becomes sensible to move it back to use

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:57 pm**

I don't know if it is sticking to spin, melberts, I'm just testing stuff and I thought it'd be funny because yee haw.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:01 pm**

I love the dragnet as a snare gun and as nothing else. I will miss it. But I didn't play security enough for my opinion to matter.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:45 pm**

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:17 pm
Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:37 am i'm almost positive anne hasnt used the dragnet before
I have. I don't think there is a bit of the combat system I haven't touched and tried to make work and approach honestly. I can tell you that basically I just used it as a shotgun and the bola shot was gravy on top. Disgustingly strong weapon, but it got largely ignored before and after the taser period because I feel like a few reasons. It also made me feel greasy using it...that, and I liked the feedback on the shotgun more.

I personally have tried to make use of the teleport but fighting the captain or the AI or whoever over setting the teleporters and keeping them set/off is nightmarishly annoying from sec's point of view. It really is best utilized by the HOS because they at least can enter and set the teleporters. But any engineer can come fuck up your dragnet by going and fidddling with the sat teleporters, or some scientist built their own teleporter. Tying it all to teleporters is just crap, but I'm sure at the time it was much more doable, or there were less teleporters in the maps, so it kind of just got left behind in the design around it. I can't possibly say given how old the DRAGnet is.

The spacing problem is actually not something I've experienced myself because I haven't seen as many people using the teleport as they have used it as a shotgun with a bola bullet. I've experienced the fun of being on the receiving end of the DRAGnet, most notably when I was on Bagil. There was a period where some cargo mains (notably, Brick Carr) figured out how disgusting it was and rolled around on ATVs validing with the one-tap volleys. I got to join them one round, it was disgustingly strong and kind of funny. We had just left the taser period, so people weren't expecting to get oneshot into stamina crit. What I have seen is people spacing prisoners on accident. And it left the players who experienced it utterly baffled as to why their prisoner wasn't in the brig and where they were now (for instance, a search warrant turned space homicide was a real thing I got to witness on old Sybil). If you can do it accidentally, nothing really stops you doing it deliberately. And that's my concern, really.

Thirdly, it is in the armory. Most officers can't get their hands on it, or make the most out of it for the utility it promises. The most meaningful, most applicable things about the dragnet is the damage being so high. So I believe most people will consider that first over its gimmick. They will also have to actively seek out getting it, which apparently isn't something people like doing for any non-standard gear. If they can't just immediately get it with zero interaction, they won't unless they have a particular plan in mind or it just gets given to them (the armory got opened). This sometimes is untrue if it's something focused on as a flavour of the month meta strat, or seems like it is particularly extreme in how powerful it is and how easy it is to apply (I'm thinking body tossing monkey humans, since you gotta go get a corpse for that).

Overall, this PR has invited a bunch of people towards making good suggestions as to alternatives and I think its been largely a good time talking to folk about the possibilities. Certainly, I think I'm going to work on something that is more applicable for security as a whole rather than something hidden away in the armory.

As for the pistol changes, this is an experimental pr please be patient.

I've seen a couple people, notably Dean, that could and use the dragnet to full effect. Scary stuff when in the right(or wrong) hands. I literally only ever used it as a rapid fire snare, and its saved my life more times than rounds ive played(I'm looking at you, revolution rounds), since I typically roll Captain so much. The snare has turned out to be an amazing device for resolving potential conflicts quickly and easily, it's so strong that I think there SHOULD only be one or two of them, and that they start in the armory since they are so powerful.

I can definitely see the people being spaced on accident thing a problem, as it's happened to myself a few times, especially when someone gets ahold of it and decides to get trolly. I've tutored a lot of people on how to use its more advanced function since most people have no idea what happens when people start disappearing after they've used it. I'm positive a lot of people have no idea that you can even switch it over to the snare function

I can honestly only be so salty about this, because I knew someone would come for it eventually
But for the love of staying alive in rounds PLEASE either just get rid of the teleporting function and leave the dragnet as is, or lets have a brainstorming session where we can come up with an item that resembles it in some form
i really like staying alive

also how do i spin pistols, the belt slot is used by my sabre

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:18 pm**

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:45 pm also how do i spin pistols, the belt slot is used by my sabre

put it into armor slot

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:24 pm**

Striders13 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:18 pm
Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:45 pm also how do i spin pistols, the belt slot is used by my sabre
put it into armor slot

THATS WHERE MY WINTER COAT GOES, I NEED MY WINTER COAT.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:40 pm**

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:24 pm
Striders13 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:18 pm
Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:45 pm also how do i spin pistols, the belt slot is used by my sabre
put it into armor slot
THATS WHERE MY WINTER COAT GOES, I NEED MY WINTER COAT.

it's 20C on station, you don't

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:48 pm**

Striders13 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:40 pm
Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:24 pm
Striders13 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 8:18 pm
Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:45 pm also how do i spin pistols, the belt slot is used by my sabre
put it into armor slot
THATS WHERE MY WINTER COAT GOES, I NEED MY WINTER COAT.
it's 20C on station, you don't

IT LOOKS NICE.

Posted: **Sat Jun 17, 2023 11:18 pm**

Even if we don't add new fire modes to X-01 we need to add the ability to go back and forth between fire modes instead of just cycling through. Maybe even a radial menu or something.

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:00 am**

A multishot snaregun that requires you to stand still for several seconds to remove or otherwise be greatly slowed is an extremely boring design for a gun. I think more people would recognize its strength if it wasn't overshadowed by the shitty balance nightmare our batons are currently in.

If I were to replace it, I would add something like the harpoon gun from Evolve. No damage, slows down the target and the guns wielder, and the line breaks if the target gets too far or breaks LOS. It would be bad when you're alone, but it could be very useful when working as a team with your fellow seccies. Added bonus of also working on any kind of fauna as well as humanoids, so you can go hunt some beasts with your mates.

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 3:16 am**

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:00 am A multishot snaregun that requires you to stand still for several seconds to remove or otherwise be greatly slowed is an extremely boring design for a gun. I think more people would recognize its strength if it wasn't overshadowed by the shitty balance nightmare our batons are currently in.

If I were to replace it, I would add something like the harpoon gun from Evolve. No damage, slows down the target and the guns wielder, and the line breaks if the target gets too far or breaks LOS. It would be bad when you're alone, but it could be very useful when working as a team with your fellow seccies. Added bonus of also working on any kind of fauna as well as humanoids, so you can go hunt some beasts with your mates.

i'm almost positive saying something has "a boring design" is just using different words to say you personally dont like something

how exactly is a gun that shoots lasers better design than one that shoots snares?

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 3:23 am**

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 12:00 am A multishot snaregun that requires you to stand still for several seconds to remove or otherwise be greatly slowed is an extremely boring design for a gun. I think more people would recognize its strength if it wasn't overshadowed by the shitty balance nightmare our batons are currently in.

If I were to replace it, I would add something like the harpoon gun from Evolve. No damage, slows down the target and the guns wielder, and the line breaks if the target gets too far or breaks LOS. It would be bad when you're alone, but it could be very useful when working as a team with your fellow seccies. Added bonus of also working on any kind of fauna as well as humanoids, so you can go hunt some beasts with your mates.

of all the armory items to call boring design you choose dragnets??

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:42 pm**

The gun could have 5 modes if we brought back taser mode but alas.

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 10:05 pm**

Timonk wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:42 pm The gun could have 5 modes if we brought back taser mode but alas.

you should code a pie cannon mode

Posted: **Sun Jun 18, 2023 11:30 pm**

Just deepfry it every shift.

Next problem, please!

Posted: **Mon Jun 19, 2023 3:23 am**

man makes some serious ideds at this day and age

Posted: **Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:13 pm**

Yeah, I think dragnet's snare function is just a less interesting and more one-sided version of the bolas. That slowdown is really strong and the push and pull of only having one chance per bola and the risk of the opponent catching it plays out a lot more interestingly than the dragnet's projectile which then turns into a bear trap.

Posted: **Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:06 pm**

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:13 pm Yeah, I think dragnet's snare function is just a less interesting and more one-sided version of the bolas. That slowdown is really strong and the push and pull of only having one chance per bola and the risk of the opponent catching it plays out a lot more interestingly than the dragnet's projectile which then turns into a bear trap.

a bear trap that takes about 3 seconds to take off, if that
its in the armory for a reason

tbh its used more than the temp or ion gun, those could probably do with redesigns first

on a side note, i watched an alien queen get absolutely destroyed by thermal pistols today

i think it took like 8 shots and it was dead

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:09 am**

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:06 pm
a bear trap that takes about 3 seconds to take off, if that
its in the armory for a reason

tbh its used more than the temp or ion gun, those could probably do with redesigns first

on a side note, i watched an alien queen get absolutely destroyed by thermal pistols today

i think it took like 8 shots and it was dead

Aliens have a double modifier on burn damage, which considering this includes lasers, should probably be reduced (one laser bolt currently does 50 damage to a xenomorph!).

Also, yeah, of course DRAGnet gets used more than the extremely specific hard-counter weapons because it works on the group that security will be fighting most often, humans. If you have access to it or a warden willing to give you access to it, why wouldn't you want to take it outside of the fear of letting it fall into enemy hands? If you land a snare, the fight's pretty much over unless the enemy is packing teleportation. It takes 3 seconds to remove, sure, but you have to stand still for 3 seconds to take it off which most of the time isn't going to fly in the middle of combat.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2023 1:12 am**

bolas can be blocked by anything with block chance while the dragnet's beartraps cant

in very niche setups like desword+bath salts/combat stims+meth/ephedrine/combat stims where the person is fast, stun immune, and has high block chance the dragnet's beartraps are a needed tool to deal with these threats

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:24 pm**

blahblahblah (weapons that bypass blockchance or oversights) etc etc 10 year old code

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:48 am**

after playing a few rounds, i like the new cowboy guns its fun and an actual ballistic option for security. I also like the HOS gun buff with the snare mode, making it the only dragnet now but with a disabler/laser/ion attached to it which is cool

/tg/Station 13

Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

Re: Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

Re: Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

Re: Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

Re: Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

Re: Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

Re: Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

Re: Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

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Re: Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets

Re: Local Admin Gets Teleported To Space, Changes Pistols To Hide Deleting Dragnets