/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?t=34413
Title requires visual aid.


I also like how atlantaned tore a new asshole in the guy so hard he's gonna be farting doubles.

“Mosins don’t even do that much damage”
Truly a take of all time

Looks like there's some minor non-lethal problem occuring, how can I solve this in a way which kills the most possible bystanders?

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:13 pm viewtopic.php?t=34413
Title requires visual aid.


I also like how atlantaned tore a new asshole in the guy so hard he's gonna be farting doubles.

OH OH! I GOT A FUNNY RESPONSE!
01:14:14 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "Kill me and I blow up" (112, 137, 4) Bridge
01:14:16 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "in a maxcap" (112, 137, 4) Bridge
01:14:37 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "idiot" (117, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:38 WHISPER DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "DO IT" (116, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:40 EMOTE DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) seizes up and falls limp, her eyes dead and lifeless...

almost like I DID take the rainbow road!

You're not renowned for knowing how to read, are you?

vect0r wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:27 pm “Mosins don’t even do that much damage”
Truly a take of all time

I laughed when I saw him try and say that. Mosins aren't that great when they aren't cleaned but they are still scary. A perfectly functioning mosin with ammo is far scarier than laser guns in 99% of scenarios.

I've seen them drop people in a single shot, two shots, and the person is almost certain to be in crit or even die unless they are wearing armor or receiving immediate medical attention.

Also, I don't blame that HOP for tacking him. I've seen so many shifts where one of the heads of staff keeps recalling the shuttle 'cause funny

stupid games stupid prizes aside, how does a permanent server ban a help someone learn to be more responsible in command roles? If he has a history of constantly building bombs with poor justification just say its because he always does this and we're sick of the station cratering because he's obsessed with mixing orange and blue.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:51 pm stupid games stupid prizes aside, how does a permanent server ban a help someone learn to be more responsible in command roles? If he has a history of constantly building bombs with poor justification just say its because he always does this and we're sick of the station cratering because he's obsessed with mixing orange and blue.

It looks like it's just a roleban?

Ban type: Roles
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Captain, Head of Personnel, Quartermaster, Chief Medical Officer, Research Director, Head of Security, Scientist, Roboticist, Geneticist permanently - As the RD, ran around with a health sensor tied to a maxcap. Despite this, put themselves in a situation where poor escalation lead to their bomb going off. This is a ban to hopefully help them learn to be more responsible in sensitive roles like command & science

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:53 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:51 pm stupid games stupid prizes aside, how does a permanent server ban a help someone learn to be more responsible in command roles? If he has a history of constantly building bombs with poor justification just say its because he always does this and we're sick of the station cratering because he's obsessed with mixing orange and blue.

It looks like it's just a roleban?

Ban type: Roles
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Captain, Head of Personnel, Quartermaster, Chief Medical Officer, Research Director, Head of Security, Scientist, Roboticist, Geneticist permanently - As the RD, ran around with a health sensor tied to a maxcap. Despite this, put themselves in a situation where poor escalation lead to their bomb going off. This is a ban to hopefully help them learn to be more responsible in sensitive roles like command & science

i may be stupid

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:49 pm

vect0r wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:27 pm “Mosins don’t even do that much damage”
Truly a take of all time

*Further Mosin discussion*

Yeah I mean its just a scratch really. If you die to one of these skill issue tbh.

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:46 pm You're not renowned for knowing how to read, are you?

01:14:14 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "Kill me and I blow up" (112, 137, 4) Bridge
01:14:16 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "in a maxcap" (112, 137, 4) Bridge
01:14:37 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "idiot" (117, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:38 WHISPER DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "DO IT" (116, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:40 EMOTE DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) seizes up and falls limp, her eyes dead and lifeless...

"KIll me and I blow up"

vs

"Yo dont kill me ive got a maxcap rigged to a DMS"

verrrry similar

how could they be so upset from me taking out my joke gun and shooting them in the chest with a joke bullet? what an idiot. they're going to end up setting off the joke bomb in my back pocket and it's all their fault.

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:58 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:46 pm You're not renowned for knowing how to read, are you?

01:14:14 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "Kill me and I blow up" (112, 137, 4) Bridge
01:14:16 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "in a maxcap" (112, 137, 4) Bridge
01:14:37 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "idiot" (117, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:38 WHISPER DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "DO IT" (116, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:40 EMOTE DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) seizes up and falls limp, her eyes dead and lifeless...

"KIll me and I blow up"

vs

"Yo dont kill me ive got a maxcap rigged to a DMS"

verrrry similar

The fact you're still missing the point is tantamount proof that banning you was a good idea.

whats the difference between a mosin and an uncleaned mosin

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:05 pm whats the difference between a mosin and an uncleaned mosin

one has poor personal hygiene very stinky

Atlanta-Ned wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:46 pm I asked the HoP about this and they assumed you were bluffing. I don't fault them for thinking that.

You should. The HoP was warned and he ignored the warning because he randomly decided the RD was bluffing. The HoP fucked around and found out. How is it the RD's fault that the HoP decided to go full gorilla mode? The escalation seems valid to me on the RD's end. Of course, it's still reasonable to question why the RD was walking around with a maxcap, but the detonation is completely on the HoP.

Who the hell assumes an RD is bluffing when it comes to maxcaps? Making bombs is RD 101!
Ever since I wrote the wiki guide on experiments, there is no excuse to not know how to make bombs .

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:49 pm

vect0r wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:27 pm “Mosins don’t even do that much damage”
Truly a take of all time

I laughed when I saw him try and say that. Mosins aren't that great when they aren't cleaned but they are still scary. A perfectly functioning mosin with ammo is far scarier than laser guns in 99% of scenarios.

I've seen them drop people in a single shot, two shots, and the person is almost certain to be in crit or even die unless they are wearing armor or receiving immediate medical attention.

Also, I don't blame that HOP for tacking him. I've seen so many shifts where one of the heads of staff keeps recalling the shuttle 'cause funny

Mosins are my favorite weapon in the game. The bang-bang combo that drops like anybody is so satisfying. I normally use them during BB, or even when I’m a heretic. Are there better weapons? Yes. Is there nothing more satisfying than racking that gun? Also yes.

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:05 pm whats the difference between a mosin and an uncleaned mosin

One has a chance of jamming, one doesn’t.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:13 pm

Atlanta-Ned wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:46 pm I asked the HoP about this and they assumed you were bluffing. I don't fault them for thinking that.

You should. The HoP was warned and he ignored the warning because he randomly decided the RD was bluffing. The HoP fucked around and found out. How is it the RD's fault that the HoP decided to go full gorilla mode? The escalation seems valid to me on the RD's end. Of course, it's still reasonable to question why the RD was walking around with a maxcap, but the detonation is completely on the HoP.

Who the hell assumes an RD is bluffing when it comes to maxcaps? Making bombs is RD 101!
Ever since I wrote the wiki guide on experiments, there is no excuse to not know how to make bombs .

Yeah, why am I not shocked that your take on this sucks?

Regardless of how bad Devin wants it to be, the HoP's reaction to him is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters here is that he built a dead man bomb and it went off. He's been banned for using bombs as a non-antag before.

I don't actually know how to clean mosins. I've gotten a cleaning kit and for the life of me I can't get it to clean non-dry mosins.

Unless it doesn't do that at all and I'm just dumb

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:48 pm I don't actually know how to clean mosins. I've gotten a cleaning kit and for the life of me I can't get it to clean non-dry mosins.

Unless it doesn't do that at all and I'm just dumb

Open the Mosin's bolt, then apply the cleaning kit to the Mosin.

AwkwardStereo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:55 pm

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:48 pm I don't actually know how to clean mosins. I've gotten a cleaning kit and for the life of me I can't get it to clean non-dry mosins.

Unless it doesn't do that at all and I'm just dumb

Open the Mosin's bolt, then apply the cleaning kit to the Mosin.

I need to test this on a singleplayer server or something because I swear it never works for me

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 9:15 pm

AwkwardStereo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:55 pm

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:48 pm I don't actually know how to clean mosins. I've gotten a cleaning kit and for the life of me I can't get it to clean non-dry mosins.

Unless it doesn't do that at all and I'm just dumb

Open the Mosin's bolt, then apply the cleaning kit to the Mosin.

I need to test this on a singleplayer server or something because I swear it never works for me

Did you try while it had bullets? I'm pretty sure you need to have it unloaded.

Are the cleaning kit and the mosin being wet unrelated?

Wasn't the mosin jamming removed

uhm the internet told me russian guns never jam

Rageguy505 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 10:04 pm Wasn't the mosin jamming removed

I'm pretty sure if you give it a guitar it'll shred some tunes.

Atlanta-Ned wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:46 pm ...and I never dreamed I'd see a resonance cascade, let alone approve one.

nice

DevinXoptoh wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:42 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:13 pm viewtopic.php?t=34413
Title requires visual aid.


I also like how atlantaned tore a new asshole in the guy so hard he's gonna be farting doubles.

OH OH! I GOT A FUNNY RESPONSE!
01:14:14 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "Kill me and I blow up" (112, 137, 4) Bridge
01:14:16 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "in a maxcap" (112, 137, 4) Bridge
01:14:37 SAY DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "idiot" (117, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:38 WHISPER DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) "DO IT" (116, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:40 EMOTE DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) seizes up and falls limp, her eyes dead and lifeless...

almost like I DID take the rainbow road!

SO WHEN I POST IN MY OWN PEANUT TO CLARIFY SOMETHING I AM SHUNNED AND MOCKED, BUT WHEN IT IS SOMEONE ELSE THEY DON'T ?
INEQUALITY. DISCRIMINATION. FORUMS SUXX

this was funny unban them

RD has a Deadman bomb strapped to them, recalls the shuttle without permission, shoots the hop that arrests them causing a shootout and then exploding.

If you didn't want the bomb to go off you needed to not escalate that conflict. The second you shot the hop you ensured the bomb would go off, the hop had every reason to not trust you and to resort to lethals, you didn't.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:13 pm How is it the RD's fault that the HoP decided to go full gorilla mode?

Because the RD fired a mosin at him after recalling the shuttle during a resonance cascade. There's 0 reason to trust this person has your best interests at heart, and every reason to shoot them into Swiss cheese.

I'd say that you are definitely competing with sinful for most derranged poster but sinful actually has good takes 1/8 times. You are genuinely and aggressively the poster with the worst takes.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:49 pm

vect0r wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:27 pm “Mosins don’t even do that much damage”
Truly a take of all time

I laughed when I saw him try and say that. Mosins aren't that great when they aren't cleaned but they are still scary. A perfectly functioning mosin with ammo is far scarier than laser guns in 99% of scenarios.

I've seen them drop people in a single shot, two shots, and the person is almost certain to be in crit or even die unless they are wearing armor or receiving immediate medical attention.

Also, I don't blame that HOP for tacking him. I've seen so many shifts where one of the heads of staff keeps recalling the shuttle 'cause funny

copy that, nerfing mosins

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:54 am I'd say that you are definitely competing with sinful for most derranged poster but sinful actually has good takes 1/8 times. You are genuinely and aggressively the poster with the worst takes.

Sinfulbliss' rancid takes exist 'cos his brain was taken away by social services, yet his heart is in the right place. Ekaterina is just an angry lil guy.

But we love him and I hope he continues to post until the end of time.

vect0r wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:27 pm “Mosins don’t even do that much damage”
Truly a take of all time

01:14:34 ATTACK DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) fired at JustFunk/(George Boyle) with 7.62 bullet from Bridge (NEWHP: 100) (113, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:34 ATTACK DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) shot JustFunk/(George Boyle) with 7.62 bullet (NEWHP: 100) (113, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:34 ATTACK JustFunk/(George Boyle) suffered: Open Puncture to head | Damage: 35 (rolled 118/145.109) | WB: -45 (113, 136, 4) Bridge

GEE I WONDER WHY HE MURDERED ME FOR SHOOTING HIM IN THE HEAD

Also don't abductors put you to sleep instead of crit

During this time I made a TTV bomb and shoved it in my bag of holding with a health sensor attatched toggle to "death", my plan was if I got caught, during surgery if I went into crit, Id succumb and it would take out the abductors.

You can't succumb when you're asleep

Archie700 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:28 am

vect0r wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:27 pm “Mosins don’t even do that much damage”
Truly a take of all time

01:14:34 ATTACK DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) fired at JustFunk/(George Boyle) with 7.62 bullet from Bridge (NEWHP: 100) (113, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:34 ATTACK DevinXoptoh/(Ava Kinsley) shot JustFunk/(George Boyle) with 7.62 bullet (NEWHP: 100) (113, 135, 4) Bridge
01:14:34 ATTACK JustFunk/(George Boyle) suffered: Open Puncture to head | Damage: 35 (rolled 118/145.109) | WB: -45 (113, 136, 4) Bridge

GEE I WONDER WHY HE MURDERED ME FOR SHOOTING HIM IN THE HEAD

When will logs finally get fixed? Surely they weren't full health after being shot in the head

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:54 am RD has a Deadman bomb strapped to them, recalls the shuttle without permission, shoots the hop that arrests them causing a shootout and then exploding.

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:54 am arrests

Surely, you mean "kidnaps", since the HoP does not even have the authority to make arrests, much less arrest other heads...
Lacran is out here fighting for the rights of HoPcurities everywhere. HoPcurity, on MANUEL of all servers...
... showing up to the bridge and instantly tabling the RD, truly the highest roleplay tgstation can behold.

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 10:08 pm uhm the internet told me russian guns never jam

"YOU CAN DROP EM IN THE DIRT, PICK IT UP, AND IT'LL STILL WORK!" - Quartermaster, mere moments before getting blown up by a Mauler

ekaterina wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:29 am

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:54 am RD has a Deadman bomb strapped to them, recalls the shuttle without permission, shoots the hop that arrests them causing a shootout and then exploding.

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:54 am arrests

Surely, you mean "kidnaps", since the HoP does not even have the authority to make arrests, much less arrest other heads...
Lacran is out here fighting for the rights of HoPcurities everywhere. HoPcurity, on MANUEL of all servers...
... showing up to the bridge and instantly tabling the RD, truly the highest roleplay tgstation can behold.

RP rule 4:

You should not act like a vigilante if a security force is present UNLESS you have a good in-character roleplay reason to believe a global or round-ending threat exists.

A HoP is not security, but ANY player, especially a head can perform an arrest in an emergency situation. People recalling during a resonance cascade is 100% a valid situation to arrest that player because it is occuring within the HoP's workplace, and is a station wide concern.

Ekat you genuinely need to work on how you apply logic to a situation. You fundamentally struggle to see merit in any position but your own, even when your own logic could EASILY be applied against your own arguement.

you say "The HoP has the resonsibility to not shoot the RD, because the RD who is directly hostile, says they have a bomb "

You can just as easily and more realistically say "The RD has a responsibility to not fire lethals at other crew members over a valid reaction to a dangerous shuttle recall, especially when they know it will start a fire fight which will likely trigger the bomb they 100% know exists."

When applying responsibility you should look to which player is the most informed and which player's actions were less reasonable considering that. Every peanut shouldn't devolve into explaining basic concepts to you while you act snarky and try to score cheap shots.

as lacran said, you're entitled to subdue people for a valid IC reason. if the hop wandered into the engine and started fucking with it, then the CE would have every right to baton them, beat them up and throw them out.

recalling the shuttle in a red alert situation where the death of the entire station is imminent without the captain's permission is a valid reason to subdue someone. they're acting like a moron and they need to be removed from the bridge where they have just demonstrated malicious intent. there was 0 reason to not send a quick "hey the engine actually seems fine, is it alright if i recall?" over command channel. it's why it exists.

when you build a bomb you have the responsibility of taking all suitable measures to ensure it only goes off when it's appropriate. if they didn't feel the need to build a health sensor maxcap for a nonsensical reason, then continue to wear it long after the fact, then this thread wouldn't exist. it would just be another dumb fight.

if you're walking around with a suicide vest on that you shouldn't have made in the first place it's not other people's responsibility to bow down to you and never instigate conflict with you, especially when you're putting the entire station in danger with your actions. it's your responsibility to de-escalate those conflicts. the attempts made to de-escalate in this situation amounted to:

>calling the hop a retard
>daring them to do it (kill them)
>after getting away from the fight, deciding to return to shoot them in the head with a rifle while on low health

also, once the RD mentioned the maxcap, the hop stopped attacking them, aggro grabbed them and threw them out. nothing else happens for another 10 whole seconds until the RD decides to re-engage and shoot them in the head with a rifle, causing a bleeding puncture wound and a sizeable amount of damage.

in all honesty? i'd laser them to death too.

it's also ironic that ekat would defend the RD because the hop shouldn't be acting like a vigilante when the RD is walking around with a rifle and a health sensor maxcap to hunt an antag that isn't a stationwide threat.

Ah, I mentioned to him to change his character name from Chip Chafer to something else to find out whether the complaints from players is caused by the character, or the player.
Lets hope him being away from command for a bit fixes these issues. It's not looking good for him if it keeps up like this!

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:57 am you say "The HoP has the resonsibility to not shoot the RD, because the RD who is directly hostile, says they have a bomb "

That's not what I said. You can shoot the RD into crit just fine, but not to death, when he specifically has a dead man bomb on him.
If the HoPcurity wants to act like security, he should learn how security acts, and it's poor practice to gun someone down past the point of being a threat (unless they've committed capital crimes, not the case).

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:57 am You can just as easily and more realistically say "The RD has a responsibility to not fire lethals at other crew members over a valid reaction to a dangerous shuttle recall, especially when they know it will start a fire fight which will likely trigger the bomb they 100% know exists."

Ultimately it wasn't the RD on the HoP's client clicking on himself and causing the detonation, was it? It was another player, aware of the dead man bomb he was carrying, who chose to shoot him anyway.
Perhaps, however, the RD indeed has some fault for starting that second bout of escalation.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:48 am it's also ironic that ekat would defend the RD because the hop shouldn't be acting like a vigilante when the RD is walking around with a rifle and a health sensor maxcap to hunt an antag that isn't a stationwide threat.

You misunderstand the extent to which I'm defending the RD. I'm more criticising the HoP. See below:

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:13 pm The HoP was warned and he ignored the warning because he randomly decided the RD was bluffing. The HoP fucked around and found out. How is it the RD's fault that the HoP decided to go full gorilla mode? The escalation seems valid to me on the RD's end. Of course, it's still reasonable to question why the RD was walking around with a maxcap, but the detonation is completely on the HoP.

ban suicide bombs, thoughts?

y'know maybe talking to people about recalling the shuttle before Just Doing It without explaining your reasons would've resulted in something different then this.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:19 pm ban suicide bombs, thoughts?

Nukies BTFO, banned at round start.

If you mean for non-antags, it makes sense. For antags, though, rule 4 is rule 4.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:01 pm how could they be so upset from me taking out my joke gun and shooting them in the chest with a joke bullet? what an idiot. they're going to end up setting off the joke bomb in my back pocket and it's all their fault.

Ted kacynzski should have tried the "it's just a prank bro" defense back in the day tbhwy

I feel like if the RD were an antag and this happened, nobody would mind. Antag blew up the bridge, classic, move along. HoP's not at fault for an antag with a bomb. But in this case neither party is an antag and yet there's sitll boom.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:15 pm

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:57 am you say "The HoP has the resonsibility to not shoot the RD, because the RD who is directly hostile, says they have a bomb "

That's not what I said. You can shoot the RD into crit just fine, but not to death, when he specifically has a dead man bomb on him.
If the HoPcurity wants to act like security, he should learn how security acts, and it's poor practice to gun someone down past the point of being a threat (unless they've committed capital crimes, not the case).

If someone who's doing something incredibly bad like "Recalling the shuttle during a cascade" says "dont kill me i have a health sensor bomb" then when i stop and let them get up immediately rushes over and attacks me my #1 thought is "he was bluffing to get me off him" not "better treat him with kid gloves again".

Well actually my #1 thought is probbably "This fucker shooting me after I let him go time to die" and that ties into the second half of why you're full of shit in that if you come after sec with a deadly weapon after they catch you doing something that looks very antaggy during a station threatening emergency like a cascade they'd well within their rights to put the boot to you fatally, let alone a head of staff.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 12:15 pm

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:57 am you say "The HoP has the resonsibility to not shoot the RD, because the RD who is directly hostile, says they have a bomb "

That's not what I said. You can shoot the RD into crit just fine, but not to death, when he specifically has a dead man bomb on him.
If the HoPcurity wants to act like security, he should learn how security acts, and it's poor practice to gun someone down past the point of being a threat (unless they've committed capital crimes, not the case).

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 4:57 am You can just as easily and more realistically say "The RD has a responsibility to not fire lethals at other crew members over a valid reaction to a dangerous shuttle recall, especially when they know it will start a fire fight which will likely trigger the bomb they 100% know exists."

Ultimately it wasn't the RD on the HoP's client clicking on himself and causing the detonation, was it? It was another player, aware of the dead man bomb he was carrying, who chose to shoot him anyway.
Perhaps, however, the RD indeed has some fault for starting that second bout of escalation.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:48 am it's also ironic that ekat would defend the RD because the hop shouldn't be acting like a vigilante when the RD is walking around with a rifle and a health sensor maxcap to hunt an antag that isn't a stationwide threat.

You misunderstand the extent to which I'm defending the RD. I'm more criticising the HoP. See below:

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:13 pm The HoP was warned and he ignored the warning because he randomly decided the RD was bluffing. The HoP fucked around and found out. How is it the RD's fault that the HoP decided to go full gorilla mode? The escalation seems valid to me on the RD's end. Of course, it's still reasonable to question why the RD was walking around with a maxcap, but the detonation is completely on the HoP.

So an RD recalls the shuttle during a resonance cascade, tells you he has a bomb so you let him go, then he comes back moments later and shoots you with a Mosin. What is going through your head as the HoP outside of "fuck this guy"

Realistically what has this RD done that would make you assume he's truthful? It's entirely believable for anyone in science to have a bomb, but if he's saying it to get out of an arrest it's just as possible for this player to be lying. Why the fuck would a normal RD be walking around with a Deadman maxcap? That's not common at all, especially on Manuel.

If you are fucking over the entire station and shooting people with lethals during an emergency, Security will kill you. They are under no obligation to process you when the station is going to shit and you are openly hostile.

The RD had ZERO reason to turn that into a firefight, especially because unlike the hop they were 100% certain regarding the bomb and chose to return and start a fire fight simply because the HoP tried to arrest them.

The standard you are holding the HoP to is to be extremely patient, to show very lenient sec conduct in a fubar situation and to believe the RD that just recalled the shuttle and shot you in the head is a reliable source of information.

So what are the things the RD could've done:

Not make a max cap to valid hunt abductors.

Not have the max cap set to a Killswitch which wouldn't be activated by an abductor anyway. But could be activated by literally any other hazard.

Not recall the shuttle during an emergency without asking the Captain first.

Not after being released by the HoP to return and shoot him in the head with a Mosin.

Not stand still telling to HoP to kill him knowing the bomb would explode.



The HoPs actions aren't perfect, but are totally reasonable given the situation the vast majority of the RDs actions were not reasonable given the situation. So why are you putting the burden of responsibility on the player that had the least wrongdoing that lead to this event?

Lacran wrote: ↑Tue Jul 11, 2023 1:16 pm The HoPs actions aren't perfect, but are totally reasonable given the situation the vast majority of the RDs actions were not reasonable given the situation. So why are you putting the burden of responsibility on the player that had the least wrongdoing that lead to this event?

I'm not.
I'm talking about the HoP's actions because everyone else seems to be glossing over them and I believe it's relevant to add them to the discussion, and because he was the one to cause the detonation.
Not because I think it's somehow his fault that the non-antag RD was walking around with a bomb to begin with.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:13 pm How is it the RD's fault that the HoP decided to go full gorilla mode? The escalation seems valid to me on the RD's end. Of course, it's still reasonable to question why the RD was walking around with a maxcap, but the detonation is completely on the HoP.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:13 pm the HoP does not even have the authority to make arrests, much less arrest other heads...

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:13 pm If the HoPcurity wants to act like security, he should learn how security acts, and it's poor practice to gun someone down past the point of being a threat

These were your criticisms of the HoP.

It's incorrect to criticise him for acting as security in this situation, as he was completely warranted to arrest that player.

It's incorrect to claim he wasn't meeting Security expectations, as killing that player in that context was 100% justified due to them almost killing you during a resonance cascade.

It's unreasonable to expect him to trust the RDs word at all, seeing as no action by the RD was anything but hostile from the HoPs perspective.


You saying "well I'm just pointing out the HoP technically activated the Killswitch" is a giant fucking back pedal. You made a lot of straight up wrong assertions which weren't just around the HoP activating the kill switch but the events that led to it.