/tg/Station 13

Yeah, I used the pump action weapon.

Why would you appeal an hour long ban for this? Even if it was entirely unintentional (doubt) it’s totally reasonable to be banned for an hour for shooting someone on your time 5 times for no reason.

appealing a 1 hour cooldown ban is always a good idea and shows you aren't easily upset at all, i'm sure the discussion during this incident was very calm and reasonable.

i play manuel from europe and get dogass ping some rounds, i've still never shot anyone in the back 5 times "accidentally" because of lag.

bang bang and they're fuckin done

The issue I have is that the dude is blaming lag while using a weapon that requires the pump action.

How can you accidentally perform 10 inputs to shoot a guy 5 times and blame lag?

Why didn't you stop after the first 1-3 shots and switch to strategy?

I play with 300 m/s on average and that's never made me shoot the same person 5 times.

i hope his ban expires, I like nicklas winter I've had some fun interactions with him

dendydoom wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:10 pm
bang bang and they're fuckin done

thank you

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 12:49 pm Why would you appeal an hour long ban for this? Even if it was entirely unintentional (doubt) it’s totally reasonable to be banned for an hour for shooting someone on your time 5 times for no reason.

The note, I guess? Don't want something on the record that makes you look like a griefer.

That said, I agree with what everyone else said. I play from the other side of the world and while I've certainly missed before, the way he describes the situation is like he had eons of input delay and that's wacky.

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:12 pm i hope his ban expires, I like nicklas winter I've had some fun interactions with him

He honestly shouldn't play sec. Dude struggles to communicate anything.

Few weeks ago he'd just run up to other officers and say "come emergency" refuse to answer questions and then just drag you somewhere and give you context at the scene, which was usually something like needing finger printing or a door opened.

Usually he ended up dragging someone somewhere that couldn't actually help, and when I told them to give them context first he'd just answer "it's faster"

He's slowly learning but I don't think it should be in sec

Lacran wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 6:09 am

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Sat Jul 15, 2023 2:12 pm i hope his ban expires, I like nicklas winter I've had some fun interactions with him

He honestly shouldn't play sec. Dude struggles to communicate anything.

Few weeks ago he'd just run up to other officers and say "come emergency" refuse to answer questions and then just drag you somewhere and give you context at the scene, which was usually something like needing finger printing or a door opened.

Usually he ended up dragging someone somewhere that couldn't actually help, and when I told them to give them context first he'd just answer "it's faster"

He's slowly learning but I don't think it should be in sec

It's regrettable. He's right, it is faster to just drag someone. But that's not what the game is about. The goal is interactions creating an interesting story... not "winning" most efficiently.

He really doesn't get that he was punished for immediately jumping the gun and firing on Clair when he saw her.
Communication had nothing to do with it, if he really was scared he would have spaced himself between him and Clair and waited for her to act.

they're fighting it like it's a perma. it was 1 hour cooldown ban to sit out the rest of the round. the note is accurate to what happened and TBM even altered it in light of new information. if he truly was lagging, and this was truly a one-off incident of egregious friendly fire, then surely it won't happen again and there won't be anything to worry about.

Archie700 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:03 am if he really was scared he would have spaced himself between him and Clair and waited for her to act.

Not everyone's a little kitten who picks flight when it comes to fight or flight. Being forced to give your opponent the first move advantage is silly.
It's perfectly reasonable to assume another security officer got caught by the heretic when alone, just like you did. That said, that assumption could easily have been corrected with either a shift-click or paying more attention to the heretic's sprite. Noting a player for being too much of a noob to do either of those is stupid. Yet another in the series of players noted for suboptimal gameplay.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:46 am they're fighting it like it's a perma.

It's the principle, the unfairness (at least in his eyes).

Aren't ghouls usually husked to begin with

ekaterina wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:10 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 10:46 am they're fighting it like it's a perma.

It's the principle, the unfairness (at least in his eyes).

it sucks to get noted, but it's a shared and moderated record of behaviour which players can access that allows admins to make informed decisions in the future. it's something that is pretty much mandatory because before making a decision we will always want as much information and context as possible to try and be as fair as possible. without notes the alternative is going into adminbus, saying "hey does anyone know anything about <ckey>?" and then getting a bunch of unmoderated hearsay, which is unfair to players.

it sucks that they were in a difficult situation and made a split second decision that ended poorly. but that is the purpose of a note, to give the benefit of the doubt to the player and say yeah okay, this behaviour wasn't ideal, but shit happens and we're just going to record an accurate description of what happened and any relevant context so that we can see if it was truly a one-off situation or if it's part of a larger pattern of behaviour that creates a problematic play style that we want to discourage. sure, this one time you were cursed by the devil into silence and you had 8,000ms ping and your house was on fire and you were nursing a baby so you got caught up in a bad decision, but how likely is it that we'll see that same situation play out a second time? incredibly unlikely. and if it does, then obviously a conversation needs to be had where we can find a resolution that stops the problematic behaviour but still allows them to play the game.

shitty situations where you're stuck between nothing but bad decisions is a pretty normal experience in this game, so it's really not seen as some kind of unforgiveable black mark to have a note about an incident on your account. it is the norm to have them. the problems start to arise when you have stacks of notes for the same behaviour over and over in a relatively short span of time, with no attempt to change after repeated discussions, which is not the case here. my experience as a player long before i ever became a badmin was that the culture was extremely patient in that regard. admins almost always want to see the best intentions in a player's actions and not ban them unless it's totally necessary (usually because their behaviour is that regularly disruptive to the shared space so it is a net positive for everyone else to remove them.)

notes need to be accurate so that they lead to fair and informed rulings, and players are well within their rights to fight their corner to ensure that all the facts about a situation are fairly represented, but asking for a note that is truthful and accurate to be removed isn't necessary. notes on people's accounts already visibly fade (they literally become more and more transparent on the admin's view of someone's notes history) the longer they've been around, and you have to push a button to see an expanded history, which i am far too lazy to do because i don't have time to read someone's 5 year history of notes that aren't relevant to the current situation, and i don't care about them anyway. there is also a big push in admin culture at the moment to use expiring notes more often, which i think is a great thing and would like to see continue.

notes are just part of the game, they really aren't that big of a deal. in fact, when i was invited to the badmin cabal, kieth told me that i should try to have more of them because it shows you're willing to take risks and make the game exciting. but you didn't hear that from me...

Dude sees a heretic lying down and an officer grabbing them and proceeds to fire at them five times.

Why does he keep trying to use not being able to speak or lag. I've played mute sec before, you can examine or use your PDA or just fucking emote. We have a gas mask that tells you to halt.

Dude was an idiot and instead of learning is doubling down. I doubt he's done anything but make himself more likely to have a target on his back.

Dendy, your posts are great, but my god you need to work on condensing them. That is a difficult but important part of writing, try and get it down to like 3 average sized paragraphs MAX

I buy his lag story. I can easily see accidentally shooting an officer who may or may not be a thrall from what you know, while pursuing a heretic. And the officer was only crit? That’s a bit silly to note for an accidental crit if it didn’t lead to death no? I guess a note is still fair but make it expire at least.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:23 am Dendy, your posts are great, but my god you need to work on condensing them. That is a difficult but important part of writing, try and get it down to like 3 average sized paragraphs MAX

I buy his lag story. I can easily see accidentally shooting an officer who may or may not be a thrall from what you know, while pursuing a heretic. And the officer was only crit? That’s a bit silly to note for an accidental crit if it didn’t lead to death no? I guess a note is still fair but make it expire at least.

What he did required 10 inputs to do, so if lag was the factor those 10 inputs would have taken even longer, giving him even more time to realise he was hitting the wrong person 5 times. I'm in NZ and I play with 300m/s and I don't have this problem even at 500m/s. Tbh even using a pump shotgun at 500m/s should be super slow due to input lag.

It also doesn't really address his desicion to shoot in the first place without any assessment which Sec need to do.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:23 am Dendy, your posts are great, but my god you need to work on condensing them. That is a difficult but important part of writing, try and get it down to like 3 average sized paragraphs MAX

thanks! that is high praise, and i appreciate it. between you and me, i never set out intending to write that much - but i always end up feeling the need to explain additional context lest i sound disingenuous. it's been suggested that i start adding tl;drs, which i've been strongly considering...

Don't give in to the shortposters.

Longposting is an exclusive club.

i totally agree with the ruling on this one but i also do feel for the appealer. they were so stuck in a loop over feeling like their standing as a good player was being attacked that they couldn't take a second to answer a question that had been asked over and over to the point that it had to be bolded and handed to them on a silver platter. to make a ruling we need information, and if you refuse to give that information then we're limited in how much we can help you resolve a situation even when we really want to.

the IC reasoning for why you chose to take that action in the first place is one of the most integral parts of making a fair ruling. nothing in this game is cut and dry, nothing goes to plan and nothing happens cleanly. it's always a mess. understanding what your initial intentions were and why you chose to do something based on what information you had is such a big part of it all. but they just couldn't see it.

also, it's impossible to stop my walls of text. they are an inevitability like the rise of day following a long night. the essayposter's guild sends its regards.

Niklas is not a good sec player tbh. He seems new to roleplay in general and I think it's pretty likely he'll end up sec banned before he starts to see issues in his play.