/tg/Station 13

Whenever i view an admin's playtime on scrubby, 99% of their rounds is them observing, why is this? what is so riveting about observing a round?

When an admin is observing, that's when they're adminning.

Not sure if this is a serious question but mama always said to presume the best.

Longestarmlonglaw wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:12 pm Whenever i view an admin's playtime on scrubby, 99% of their rounds is them observing, why is this? what is so riveting about observing a round?

Because admins observe to well admin?

Less visibility into stuff going on when you’re playing. But admins should play more often. Or playmin even.

Atlanta-Ned wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:40 pm Less visibility into stuff going on when you’re playing. But admins should play more often. Or playmin even.

the thought makes me wretch. too much metainfo being thrown at you.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:50 pm

Atlanta-Ned wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:40 pm Less visibility into stuff going on when you’re playing. But admins should play more often. Or playmin even.

the thought makes me wretch. too much metainfo being thrown at you.

At a certain point you’re just an actor. We don’t admin people who can’t handle seeing metainfo and acting on it. But it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:50 pm

Atlanta-Ned wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:40 pm Less visibility into stuff going on when you’re playing. But admins should play more often. Or playmin even.

the thought makes me wretch. too much metainfo being thrown at you.

You gotta learn how to see yourself as just another side character, unimportant to the main storyline. When you have that much info thrown at you, you learn to ignore it and move on with your pointless business. You obviously cannot be fighting a dragon when you got info over the location of every rift being made, because you yourself will try to act in good faith and end up confused, but you can choose to completely ignore the matter. The main downside to playminning is not being able to deal with tickets around you. So, if some non antag is boning and you get caught up in it, you can't take the tickets, which can suck if no other admins are available.

Overall, playminning is not against the rules, but it is highly discouraged.

Regarding Ned's post, I agree, but I would cross out the "Or playmin even" part.

a lot of times i dont want to commit to a whole round and just want to dm/shitpost/help people out

also im a little burned out on a lot of normal jobs and enjoy midrounds more sometimes

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:01 am

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:50 pm

Atlanta-Ned wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 11:40 pm Less visibility into stuff going on when you’re playing. But admins should play more often. Or playmin even.

the thought makes me wretch. too much metainfo being thrown at you.

You gotta learn how to see yourself as just another side character, unimportant to the main storyline. When you have that much info thrown at you, you learn to ignore it and move on with your pointless business. You obviously cannot be fighting a dragon when you got info over the location of every rift being made, because you yourself will try to act in good faith and end up confused, but you can choose to completely ignore the matter. The main downside to playminning is not being able to deal with tickets around you. So, if some non antag is boning and you get caught up in it, you can't take the tickets, which can suck if no other admins are available.

Overall, playminning is not against the rules, but it is highly discouraged.

Regarding Ned's post, I agree, but I would cross out the "Or playmin even" part.

Yeah, sounds about right.

I don't like playminning. Imagine you're like seriously immersed in a situation, maybe just going through the flow of your job, doing your lil things here and there, talking to peopl-BWOINK HELO MISTER ADIMIN IS THIS PERSON ANTEG HE KIL ME

playminning is dumb because you have to be so unimpactful to the round you might as well just be doing the same thing in centcomm but with your powers, or risk (even subjectivley) using info/powers in a way that influences the round which would suck.

Admins also should play more (we have too many low hour admins i fear), but its a bit understandable why they wouldnt if they are already lost to the void of adminship.

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:02 am Admins also should play more (we have too many low hour admins i fear), but its a bit understandable why they wouldnt if they are already lost to the void of adminship.

That's an interesting concept: "void of adminship". I feel like there could be many motives for an Admin to observe more than play, but, ultimately, it all boils down to how much the Admin feels like playing. I know this can sound counter-intuitive or silly, but sometimes you feel like observing and sometimes you feel like playing. If you look at my activity, you'll find that sometimes I'm in more of a mood to play and sometimes I go many rounds in a row without playing a single round. Furthermore, some Admins may prefer to do Admin work rather than play, which is fair, since you get funny tools to improve others' rounds and DM fun events, as well as solve tickets to keep stuff flowing smoothly. I see this common concern with Admins who do not play very often that they may go out of touch with the community, but that's not really a thing, in my opinion. I don't think that not playing for a long period of time will affect your perspective of the community and what it needs. Remember that, while observing, admins are still interacting with the round, even if it's just by watching it; adminning is not time wasted in a headspace full of tickets and policy pages. Nevertheless, playing is still highly encouraged for two motives: the first one is so that the Admin does not forget what it's like to be a Player, and the second one is to avoid burnout. It's really easy to burn out if you're subjected to a lot of pressure at once, and playing the game instead of adminning can help relieve a lot of tension. Many Players think Admins are just having fun doing jannie work, but sometimes it can be very stressful, especially if you're dealing with something you've never had to deal with before. I'd like to end with a small note: sometimes some players forget that Admins are Players too. Admins are nothing more than Players with funny buttons and access to hidden channels, trusted upon them for some ungodly reason to help keep tg a safe place where everyone can have fun and enjoy their free time. Sometimes it may feel like there's this huge separation between Admins and Players, but that's just optics.

Justice is right. A lot of the time, the "void of adminship" is just admins realising there's a much nicer, less batshit toxic subsection of the community they can interact with. It's simple behaviour really; why would you play if you can admin? Admins are (mostly) only human.

I still try to play from time to time, recently my activity as dipped since I'm moving countries (I'm coming for you, Sybil), but honestly it has changed from stuff like roboticist and shaft miner which are roles with a bit more activity to janitor and cargo tech since it's a more chill job. Free access to the auto/service lathe also helps with printing out spray cans to foment my speciest arc.

If you want admins to play more, make an effort to be less shit. I believe that there are people who unironically want to be as shit as possible to have the "distinct recognition" of being the reason an admin burns out.

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:28 am Admins are (mostly) only human.

Can we all agree that Stereo was not and still is not human?

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:30 am

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:28 am Admins are (mostly) only human.

Can we all agree that Stereo was not and still is not human?

Add 307 for the true total.

AwkwardStereo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:41 am

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:30 am

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:28 am Admins are (mostly) only human.

Can we all agree that Stereo was not and still is not human?

<snip>

Did you just leak Retirement Home? :O

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:42 am

AwkwardStereo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:41 am

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:30 am

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:28 am Admins are (mostly) only human.

Can we all agree that Stereo was not and still is not human?

<snip>

Did you just leak Retirement Home? :O

De-deadmin this man radio

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:42 am

AwkwardStereo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:41 am

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:30 am

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 2:28 am Admins are (mostly) only human.

Can we all agree that Stereo was not and still is not human?

<snip>

Did you just leak Retirement Home? :O

i'll fuckin' do it again

All questions about the ethics of playminning aside, it's just not fun at all. You can't commit to adminning and abusing the station with CC updates or silly gimmicks because you're playing and need to do your job/roleplay with people/do whatever. You also can't fully commit to playing because you need to stop roleplaying/doing your job at any moment when someone ahelps that the clown is killing them in maint for no reason.

If u have more living hours than ghost hours u r a fuking casual idk

Admins want to observe ERP.

Playminning is something really only reserved for quiet low-interaction jobs where you dont care if you're having to ignore admin messages in the chatbar or occasionally have to hit f5 and spend the rest of the round cleaning up a stupid he said she said bitchfest between two shitters. Janitor and botany were always two classic roles where it worked ok, helping out the station without any obligation to really get involved.

anyone who has played sec or med while adminned should have their underwear run up a flagpole tho

Admins don't play fr

i'm about to enter this thread with some disgusting positivity

i still love playing because i like my community and it's never going to stop being fun having wacky adventures with them

i love adminning because i get to empower those adventures from the other side of the coin and make the round better for the people playing

i even get to abuse my position to ban people that i personally don't like and who have personally slighted me even in harmless ways

all positives 0 downsides baby

some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

Gonna blow your mind.

Like detonate your brain.

Turn your thoughts to smithereens.

Did you know some PLAYERS also don't play anymore?

Like some PLAYERS have only tens of hours played over YEARS of existing?

I shit you not.

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:28 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

Gonna blow your mind.

Like detonate your brain.

Turn your thoughts to smithereens.

Did you know some PLAYERS also don't play anymore?

Like some PLAYERS have only tens of hours played over YEARS of existing?

I shit you not.

Did you KNOW that i'm almost CERTAIN that there is a DIFFERENCE between players that play every ONCE in a WHILE, and ADMINS that admin EVERY day and PLAY (1) round every few MONTHS?

can you GRASP why that is SIGNIFICANT, and why SNARK won't make this valid FACT a NONconcern?

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

I hate this mentality. I don't feel like it's necessary to play the game regularly in order to understand the rules or have a grasp of how it works.

I actually see this used more often as an ad hominem than anyone actually making a point about admins not playing the game.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:16 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:28 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

Gonna blow your mind.

Like detonate your brain.

Turn your thoughts to smithereens.

Did you know some PLAYERS also don't play anymore?

Like some PLAYERS have only tens of hours played over YEARS of existing?

I shit you not.

Did you KNOW that i'm almost CERTAIN that there is a DIFFERENCE between players that play every ONCE in a WHILE, and ADMINS that admin EVERY day and PLAY (1) round every few MONTHS?

can you GRASP why that is SIGNIFICANT, and why SNARK won't make this valid FACT a NONconcern?

The difference only exists if you put an imaginary wall between players and admins.

Conrad where's the reply you made to my post you COWARD?

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:07 pm Conrad where's the reply you made to my post you COWARD?

There has been some recent drama regarding misinterpreting messages and misconstruing meanings in a very poor light and I realized that it could be done with the joke I made.

I'd rather avoid the headache. If that makes me a coward paint my belly yellow and watch me lay eggs.

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:52 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:16 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:28 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

Gonna blow your mind.

Like detonate your brain.

Turn your thoughts to smithereens.

Did you know some PLAYERS also don't play anymore?

Like some PLAYERS have only tens of hours played over YEARS of existing?

I shit you not.

Did you KNOW that i'm almost CERTAIN that there is a DIFFERENCE between players that play every ONCE in a WHILE, and ADMINS that admin EVERY day and PLAY (1) round every few MONTHS?

can you GRASP why that is SIGNIFICANT, and why SNARK won't make this valid FACT a NONconcern?

The difference only exists if you put an imaginary wall between players and admins.

there is a very extreme, thick wall, when it involves admins that are not players

i'm kind of baffled by how you don't understand that

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:48 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

I hate this mentality. I don't feel like it's necessary to play the game regularly in order to understand the rules or have a grasp of how it works.

I actually see this used more often as an ad hominem than anyone actually making a point about admins not playing the game.

i forget how the phrase goes, something like "a king that does not walk among his people is no king" something like that
basically when you stop playing the game or interacting inside the game with it's players, you are automatically becoming distant and out of touch as to why people do the things they do
someone else can probably explain it better than me because i'm an idiot

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:29 pm i forget how the phrase goes, something like "a king that does not walk among his people is no king" something like that
basically when you stop playing the game or interacting inside the game with it's players, you are automatically becoming distant and out of touch as to why people do the things they do
someone else can probably explain it better than me because i'm an idiot

The only instances I see this come up in are cases where someone on Terry will whine about being slapped for breaking the rules because it's ~server culture~ or something.

It's never actually relevant to the rules, it's always related to some other nebulous bullshit that comes down to "I don't like that I broke the rules and am now being punished for it". It's never used in good faith.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

Would you consider, for instance, iain0 to be an admin who "doesn't even play at all anymore"? Or are you leaning more towards a WaterMelon? Maybe going straightforward for an OmegaDark?

Regardless of who you pick, these are all good admins who do their job really well. Even if we look at OmegaDark, I must admit that I only realized they don't join the servers too much right now by looking at their scrubby, and the truth is that they still give really based takes when asked.

I'm not saying that admins should not play at all. In fact, I believe they should, but I feel like the correlation is weak and that admins with low playtime are not a big deal.

Playing a lot also doesn't mean you'll be an AMAZING admin. I used to play a lot before getting re-adminned and I fucked up 3 days in because I didn't pay attention to admin conduct.

I can understand the argument of "If you play more, you're able to sympathise with players more easily", but I don't feel like you HAVE to play, in order to be able to put yourself in players' shoes.

Edit: I just realized I pretty much repeated what Vekter said, but I wouldn't use a saying as an argument for this haha

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:25 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:52 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 6:16 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:28 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

this is extremely dangerous to our democracy.

Gonna blow your mind.

Like detonate your brain.

Turn your thoughts to smithereens.

Did you know some PLAYERS also don't play anymore?

Like some PLAYERS have only tens of hours played over YEARS of existing?

I shit you not.

Did you KNOW that i'm almost CERTAIN that there is a DIFFERENCE between players that play every ONCE in a WHILE, and ADMINS that admin EVERY day and PLAY (1) round every few MONTHS?

can you GRASP why that is SIGNIFICANT, and why SNARK won't make this valid FACT a NONconcern?

The difference only exists if you put an imaginary wall between players and admins.

there is a very extreme, thick wall, when it involves admins that are not players

i'm kind of baffled by how you don't understand that

I understand that, it's just that this extreme, thick wall is entirely in your head.

Listen, if your buddy got kidnapped and turned into an admin, and you don't see them in game anymore and you miss them, hit them up on discord, or on the forums, or somewhere. Talk to them.

If you believe you're being mishandled by an admin because they haven't played in an eternity, complain. There's a forum for that. Just bear in mind that just because they haven't played in a while doesn't mean their brains rotted into dust and they forgot how to spessmens.

I can't think of another scenario where an admin losing interest in the game due to being an admin (this happens by the way, I'm not denying it doesn't) and becoming an observer main is such a big problem that players would feel "concerned". Concerned for what? You're afraid you're gonna get banned, appeal and get denied by the conclave of admins that never play? I think MSO would nuke the server before he let that happen. (he's more active in admin conversations than one would think).

If you can, please enlighten me, as I am failing to understand.

this server is not a democracy

every day for 7 minutes we gather in adminbus around an effigy of the collective playerbase and burn it while yelling and screaming to cement our hatred

I try to play a bit more now than when I started but overall I just find adminning fun, Yeah some stuff like banning people sucks but just interacting with the shift itself is pretty fun and doing CC stuff, mechanical ahelps etc is just fun.

I'd like to play more but tgui bug is making that not easy

Can you turn off admin info when you play a round?

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:47 am Can you turn off admin info when you play a round?

You can press a button called "Deadmin", which takes all admin buttons away except a button called "Readmin". You essentially go back to being a Player.

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:53 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:47 am Can you turn off admin info when you play a round?

You can press a button called "Deadmin", which takes all admin buttons away except a button called "Readmin". You essentially go back to being a Player.

It even changes your OOC color back to pleb yellow.

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:41 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 5:22 pm some admins (a lot) don't even play at all anymore

i've looked up multiple admins with only tens of hours played over YEARS of adminning

Regardless of who you pick, these are all good admins who do their job really well. Even if we look at OmegaDark, I must admit that I only realized they don't join the servers too much right now by looking at their scrubby, and the truth is that they still give really based takes when asked.

fwiw for my case specifically I readily admit that I don't play the game as much as I should- I'm in the point of my time here that I mainly discord jannie and oldpost with advice that's still relevant to Current Time while being a little less than capable for knowing the who's who of current-day sybil.
I wouldn't trust my own judgement on who's the popular shitter for sybil right now, but likewise I *would* trust my judgement on an issue that's not going to change (or changes that I stay up to date with by just trawling bus constantly)

if you want to see me around say something on discord that's moderately racey and watch as I like
pour out of the cracks in the wall like a high-pressure liquid then reform in front of you and ask you what you meant by it


alternatively play on skyrat and get injured, I play a medical MEKA called Avarice

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:53 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:47 am Can you turn off admin info when you play a round?

You can press a button called "Deadmin", which takes all admin buttons away except a button called "Readmin". You essentially go back to being a Player.

Sorry, suicide isn't cool and I don't read books.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:08 am

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:53 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:47 am Can you turn off admin info when you play a round?

You can press a button called "Deadmin", which takes all admin buttons away except a button called "Readmin". You essentially go back to being a Player.

Sorry, suicide isn't cool and I don't read books.

After that joke, suicide isn't an option because I'm already at your doorstep to take you to the psych ward

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:59 pm

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 5:08 am

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:53 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:47 am Can you turn off admin info when you play a round?

You can press a button called "Deadmin", which takes all admin buttons away except a button called "Readmin". You essentially go back to being a Player.

Sorry, suicide isn't cool and I don't read books.

After that joke, suicide isn't an option because I'm already at your doorstep to take you to the psych ward

The retiredmin stage