/tg/Station 13

kawoppi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:15 pm i don't think France is gonna recover from this one

Sightld2 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:30 pm Democracy has failed us

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:35 am i tried to explain to him what rp was

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:39 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned

did you glaze over the bit about getting a note every 12 hours played
or how a HOS main got a 2w command ban 3 weeks after being unbanned

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:58 am

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:39 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned

did you glaze over the bit about getting a note every 12 hours played
or how a HOS main got a 2w command ban 3 weeks after being unbanned

I saw that, but you weren’t on the servers for those bans/notes right? So you must’ve heard about them through other sources and then come on at some point to perma him based on his history.

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:52 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:58 am

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:39 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned

did you glaze over the bit about getting a note every 12 hours played
or how a HOS main got a 2w command ban 3 weeks after being unbanned

I saw that, but you weren’t on the servers for those bans/notes right? So you must’ve heard about them through other sources and then come on at some point to perma him based on his history.

no, but most admins aren't on the same server at the same time as anyone else's notes are placed either (the entire admin team doesnt manifest every time any admin places a note on someone)- I have to implicitly trust my fellow admins in making sensible notes, and the same applies for just about any ban- even cut-and-dry shit like "I saw you murder 3 ppl with a maxcap fnr thats a 3day" an admin'll be reading someone else's notes first and seeing if other admins have mentioned em behaving poorly via the notes placed

in this case, I read their notes and ban record, saw that they haven't been improving, and with the information gathered from Literally Every Single Admin Who Contributed In The Discussion, their logs, and their notes/bans, that they weren't up to the quality we wanted to see. It's not just "other admins said ban omega banned" and I think that representing it as such vastly devalues literally every other source we have of passing judgement or recording/reading histories of players

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned, Omega doesn’t come online enough to really experience Paris aside from whatever salt is generated over him in admin channels and in general.

Not saying that’s a bad thing or anything, but it’s sorta how it goes.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:09 am

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:52 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:58 am

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:39 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned

did you glaze over the bit about getting a note every 12 hours played
or how a HOS main got a 2w command ban 3 weeks after being unbanned

I saw that, but you weren’t on the servers for those bans/notes right? So you must’ve heard about them through other sources and then come on at some point to perma him based on his history.

no, but most admins aren't on the same server at the same time as anyone else's notes are placed either (the entire admin team doesnt manifest every time any admin places a note on someone)- I have to implicitly trust my fellow admins in making sensible notes, and the same applies for just about any ban- even cut-and-dry shit like "I saw you murder 3 ppl with a maxcap fnr thats a 3day" an admin'll be reading someone else's notes first and seeing if other admins have mentioned em behaving poorly via the notes placed

in this case, I read their notes and ban record, saw that they haven't been improving, and with the information gathered from Literally Every Single Admin Who Contributed In The Discussion, their logs, and their notes/bans, that they weren't up to the quality we wanted to see. It's not just "other admins said ban omega banned" and I think that representing it as such vastly devalues literally every other source we have of passing judgement or recording/reading histories of players

I’m not sure how things work there and neither is anyone else, don’t take offense to anything I’m saying I’m really just guessing how it all works.

The part I got confused at was the “saw they haven’t been improving” because that implies you saw something specifically, but nothing specific was listed anywhere. Haven’t seen you on while Paris has been playing so I assume you just meant other admins talking about their play rather than some actions/playstyle you specifically saw.

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:41 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned, Omega doesn’t come online enough to really experience Paris aside from whatever salt is generated over him in admin channels and in general.

Not saying that’s a bad thing or anything, but it’s sorta how it goes.

I'm a goddamn prophet.

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:41 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned, Omega doesn’t come online enough to really experience Paris aside from whatever salt is generated over him in admin channels and in general.

Not saying that’s a bad thing or anything, but it’s sorta how it goes.

I'm a goddamn prophet.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned, Omega doesn’t come online enough to really experience Paris aside from whatever salt is generated over him in admin channels and in general.

Not saying that’s a bad thing or anything, but it’s sorta how it goes.

Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:53 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 6:41 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:37 am

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:24 pm Can't wait for the roudy bunch to say that they got perma'd 'cos of the "the administrative team is irritated" bit with utter and complete tunnel vision to the rest of the ban reason kek

That is obviously the reason he got banned, Omega doesn’t come online enough to really experience Paris aside from whatever salt is generated over him in admin channels and in general.

Not saying that’s a bad thing or anything, but it’s sorta how it goes.

I'm a goddamn prophet.

In other news, water is wet.

Capsandi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:10 pm TheLoLSwat should try playing the game sometime before the summer ends so I can read their ban peanut at the beach once i print it out.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:56 am he managed to irritate me so much with so many little things that I gained a note/ban for throwing him infront of the tram

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:38 pm

Capsandi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 2:10 pm TheLoLSwat should try playing the game sometime before the summer ends so I can read their ban peanut at the beach once i print it out.

I do play the game…. I just make a phone call every week to better my standing with the admins like when you call Lester to decrease your star level

The Wrench wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:43 pm Man, I miss Paris. He was pretty fun the one shift I got with him.

Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:56 pm

The Wrench wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:43 pm Man, I miss Paris. He was pretty fun the one shift I got with him.

one shift, thank you for this vouch

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 9:16 pm

Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:56 pm

The Wrench wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:43 pm Man, I miss Paris. He was pretty fun the one shift I got with him.

one shift, thank you for this vouch

he was pretty fun the multiple shifts I got with him

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:58 am It’s sorta like that for lots of QC bans, it was for Lucy where Spookuni came on despite solely adminning Manuel to dole out the permaban likely because of hearing lots of complaints in adminchannels. It’s not a criticism just more an observation — no shit the admins all getting irritated over a player will lead to that player getting whacked! That doesn’t mean it’s not deserved.

spookuni wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:51 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:58 am It’s sorta like that for lots of QC bans, it was for Lucy where Spookuni came on despite solely adminning Manuel to dole out the permaban likely because of hearing lots of complaints in adminchannels. It’s not a criticism just more an observation — no shit the admins all getting irritated over a player will lead to that player getting whacked! That doesn’t mean it’s not deserved.

FWIW, you're actually largely correct about how a lot of hammer drop permabans / QC bans get dropped onto problem players in the long term.

The admin team as a whole and (mostly) as individuals care a lot about both the reality and perception of our personal biases when it comes to our decisions: especially regarding players that large parts of the admin team dislikes and knows they dislike. Because of this, and somewhat unintuitively, good admins (of which we have many) are generally LESS likely to apply strong bans / permabans to people they personally don't like, because the banning admin knows they don't like the person they're banning, and will generally overcorrect the resulting bias back towards being somewhat lenient.

This becomes a recursive problem when handling players who consistently cause 'being an arsehole' related problems in the long term, since admins are generally going to develop negative feelings towards players who flaunt the rules and act like dickheads... Which makes those admins less and less comfortable dropping the hammer themselves as time goes on. This often (though far from always) gets broken by uninvolved admins getting brought in by admin-channel discussions having a look and going "oh wow yeah this person's a shitter bye bye".

(See above re: Helplesscrane, I didn't log on to ban them, I logged on to observe them for a while and see what all the complaining was about. Had they been acting like a normal player during the time I was watching them, they'd have survived another day. They were not.)

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:21 am
Yooo quality post, I appreciate the transparency.

Makes a lot of sense, I think it’s probably overall a good thing that the overcorrection happens since the alternative is someone getting a biased ban. Also actually makes a lot of sense why the eventual perma ends up being a totally uninvolved admin, always was kind of confused why that was the case. I imagine it’s like “okay, this person sucks but I’m probably biased since I watch them every day and hear awful things about them in admin channels, maybe even died to them a few rounds, yo Coco can you observe this retard real quick and lmk what you think?”

“oh wow this guy sucks bad” *permaban

Seems like a good way to do it TBH.

It’s always a bit unfortunate though when the QC perma gets made very shortly after their last note or a ban, I think in Paris’s case it was a day or two? Usually I’d like to see them give the player some adequate time after the note/ban to possibly correct their play before the QC ban is doled out. You could say in Paris’s case he got plenty of time already to correct his play, especially since he was unbanned purely by a vote in the first place — and you’d be right — but it’s always a bit sad to see the QC applied so shortly after the last note/ban. It almost makes the note/ban seem kinda pointless if they were gonna be QC’d anyway.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:21 am It’s always a bit unfortunate though when the QC perma gets made very shortly after their last note or a ban, I think in Paris’s case it was a day or two?

spookuni wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:51 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:58 am It’s sorta like that for lots of QC bans, it was for Lucy where Spookuni came on despite solely adminning Manuel to dole out the permaban likely because of hearing lots of complaints in adminchannels. It’s not a criticism just more an observation — no shit the admins all getting irritated over a player will lead to that player getting whacked! That doesn’t mean it’s not deserved.

FWIW, you're actually largely correct about how a lot of hammer drop permabans / QC bans get dropped onto problem players in the long term.

The admin team as a whole and (mostly) as individuals care a lot about both the reality and perception of our personal biases when it comes to our decisions: especially regarding players that large parts of the admin team dislikes and knows they dislike. Because of this, and somewhat unintuitively, good admins (of which we have many) are generally LESS likely to apply strong bans / permabans to people they personally don't like, because the banning admin knows they don't like the person they're banning, and will generally overcorrect the resulting bias back towards being somewhat lenient.

This becomes a recursive problem when handling players who consistently cause 'being an arsehole' related problems in the long term, since admins are generally going to develop negative feelings towards players who flaunt the rules and act like dickheads... Which makes those admins less and less comfortable dropping the hammer themselves as time goes on. This often (though far from always) gets broken by uninvolved admins getting brought in by admin-channel discussions having a look and going "oh wow yeah this person's a shitter bye bye".

(See above re: Helplesscrane, I didn't log on to ban them, I logged on to observe them for a while and see what all the complaining was about. Had they been acting like a normal player during the time I was watching them, they'd have survived another day. They were not.)

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 7:23 am Stuff like this oddly makes me wish we could see whenever admins are talking about us. I get why that isn't the case though.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:21 am Makes a lot of sense, I think it’s probably overall a good thing that the overcorrection happens since the alternative is someone getting a biased ban. Also actually makes a lot of sense why the eventual perma ends up being a totally uninvolved admin, always was kind of confused why that was the case. I imagine it’s like “okay, this person sucks but I’m probably biased since I watch them every day and hear awful things about them in admin channels, maybe even died to them a few rounds, yo Coco can you observe this retard real quick and lmk what you think?”

“oh wow this guy sucks bad” *permaban