/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:25 am**

in this round i observed the mime, who was a heretic, be executed for wearing heretic robes, and having the captains gun in the bridge. i ahelped this

lol?

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:29 am**

The ahelp was really funny and inactionable, but it still shouldn't have been rejected due to them not being involved. It should've been rejected due to being funny and inactionable.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:19 am**

A heretic got executed for wearing obvious heretic gear. I fail to see the problem here. I'm assuming this was on Manuel, based on who's making the thread and the implication that this is somehow unusual.
If the heretic himself didn't ahelp, then he believed he had done stuff that would warrant his execution. Stuff that both he and security would be privy to, but some random third party wouldn't. Either that or he didn't care. In neither case is interrupting players' rounds with bwoinks necessary. Maia should have minded her own business. The admin did nothing wrong. This is so not getting upheld.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:45 am**

Isnt high value theft execution? Anyhow, they were wearing fucking heretic robes. They commited breaking and entering, tresspass into an important area and finally high value theft, so execution is warranted.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:54 am**

I lol'd

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:13 am**

I can already hear Kieth's mighty lungs producing the longest sigh known to man.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:17 am**

I get the field execution, this was just a bad response to a bad ahelp. It happens to us all. I totally get Maia being upset because of the response, and I also get Ned not wanting to deal with a ticket that he didn't see the reason in investigating.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:11 am**

Kind of unintentionaly based. Minimods who ahelp for others are the worst

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:29 am**

Cheshify wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:17 am I get the field execution, this was just a bad response to a bad ahelp. It happens to us all. I totally get Maia being upset because of the response, and I also get Ned not wanting to deal with a ticket that he didn't see the reason in investigating.

in what world is this a bad response to the ahelp

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:03 am**

NikNakFlak wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:29 am
Cheshify wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:17 am I get the field execution, this was just a bad response to a bad ahelp. It happens to us all. I totally get Maia being upset because of the response, and I also get Ned not wanting to deal with a ticket that he didn't see the reason in investigating.
in what world is this a bad response to the ahelp

Because it's totally irrelevant whether or not the mime ahelps.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:06 am**

Lacran wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:03 am
NikNakFlak wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:29 am
Cheshify wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:17 am I get the field execution, this was just a bad response to a bad ahelp. It happens to us all. I totally get Maia being upset because of the response, and I also get Ned not wanting to deal with a ticket that he didn't see the reason in investigating.
in what world is this a bad response to the ahelp
Because it's totally irrelevant whether or not the mime ahelps.

It's not completely irrelevant, knowing that a player feels aggrieved adds more weight to "Do I bother to address this mis-conduct"

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:10 am**

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:06 am
Lacran wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:03 am
NikNakFlak wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:29 am
Cheshify wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:17 am I get the field execution, this was just a bad response to a bad ahelp. It happens to us all. I totally get Maia being upset because of the response, and I also get Ned not wanting to deal with a ticket that he didn't see the reason in investigating.
in what world is this a bad response to the ahelp
Because it's totally irrelevant whether or not the mime ahelps.
It's not completely irrelevant, knowing that a player feels aggrieved adds more weight to "Do I bother to address this mis-conduct"

It should be a factor in determining the severity of a rulebreach, not if a rulebreach occured in the first place.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:21 am**

Lacran wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:10 am
WineAllWine wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:06 am
Lacran wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:03 am
NikNakFlak wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:29 am
Cheshify wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:17 am I get the field execution, this was just a bad response to a bad ahelp. It happens to us all. I totally get Maia being upset because of the response, and I also get Ned not wanting to deal with a ticket that he didn't see the reason in investigating.
in what world is this a bad response to the ahelp
Because it's totally irrelevant whether or not the mime ahelps.
It's not completely irrelevant, knowing that a player feels aggrieved adds more weight to "Do I bother to address this mis-conduct"
It should be a factor in determining the severity of a rulebreach, not if a rulebreach occured in the first place.

I don't disagree, but it's a factor in "Do I put the effort in to look into this potential rulebreach?"
Occasionally I see things that might be rulebreaches. If they looks like they might be severe rulebreaches I'll investigate always ("hey why did you set off a maxcap in the central hallway?"). If it looks like its minor I'll sometime let them slide if no-one ahelps

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:38 am**

I think the ahelp was given the time and attention it deserved

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 12:28 pm**

Petty complaint + manuel but it’s funny to imagine Ned and Kieth malding at a nothingburger complaint

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 3:35 pm**

Contrary to popular belief, admins dont need to act on everything. Why did X get away with minor griefing but I got a warning when I did? Maybe the security player actually didnt care, everything is circumstantial. Either way, what Ned responded with was hilariously fine. Adminhelping on someone elses behalf but then expecting and demanding an admin do something is minimodding. What about that situation needed an investigation at all, whether the mime, maia, or other adminhelped it at all?

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:15 pm**

the secret is to say "we'll look into it" then announce in admin chat that you intend to do nothing because it's an IC issue

the existence of this complaint demonstrates why this method is so valuable

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:19 pm**

the very consistent (in discord as well as here) translation of quite a polite message to "fuck off" is pretty funny

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:31 pm**

I'm just reading high levels of entitlement, here, and not much else worth talking about.
"You. Volunteer. You MUST do something about this."
lol, lmao.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:46 pm**

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:31 pm I'm just reading high levels of entitlement, here, and not much else worth talking about.
"You. Volunteer. You MUST do something about this."
lol, lmao.

i dont expect an admin to handle every ticket but i do expect more than them telling me to not ahelp because i wasnt involved

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:46 pm**

Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:15 pm the secret is to say "we'll look into it" then announce in admin chat that you intend to do nothing because it's an IC issue

the existence of this complaint demonstrates why this method is so valuable

then tell the player its an IC issue, helps build trust

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:01 pm**

EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:46 pm
Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:15 pm the secret is to say "we'll look into it" then announce in admin chat that you intend to do nothing because it's an IC issue

the existence of this complaint demonstrates why this method is so valuable
then tell the player its an IC issue, helps build trust

if the admin is in a sour mood or otherwise feels they're at risk of saying something stupid or mean--whether by external life factors or otherwise--

well, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:02 pm**

Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:15 pm the secret is to say "we'll look into it" then announce in admin chat that you intend to do nothing because it's an IC issue

the existence of this complaint demonstrates why this method is so valuable

Noooo you cant leak admin secrets like that!

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:08 pm**

Simple Rule 6.

Complaints for admins not taking action, or for choosing not to, already hold no water when made by the affected party.
And if they did, they'd hold even less when made by a uninvolved third party.

These kind of complaints are just a variation of "ban request, or else... " in disguise. Just post on their feedback thread instead, which is the place for things "you didn't like an admin doing".

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:21 pm**

EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:46 pm
Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:15 pm the secret is to say "we'll look into it" then announce in admin chat that you intend to do nothing because it's an IC issue

the existence of this complaint demonstrates why this method is so valuable
then tell the player its an IC issue, helps build trust

This is what a ticket says when we reject a ticket:

This is what a ticket says when we mark it as IC:

This frankly should have been marked as IC, but it wasn't so whatever. If your ticket was REJECTED it is entirely likely you left out information or were lacking it yourself, especially as a third party. There's nothing wrong with rejecting a ticket in these scenarios. If you feel like you weren't heard just ahelp again and say so?

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:33 pm**

Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:15 pm the secret is to say "we'll look into it" then announce in admin chat that you intend to do nothing because it's an IC issue

the existence of this complaint demonstrates why this method is so valuable

The age old Respond -> "I will look into it."
Into F3 -> "I will not."

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:02 pm**

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:20 pm**

Chadley wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:33 pm
Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:15 pm the secret is to say "we'll look into it" then announce in admin chat that you intend to do nothing because it's an IC issue

the existence of this complaint demonstrates why this method is so valuable
The age old Respond -> "I will look into it."
Into F3 -> "I will not."

Handled.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:51 pm**

Drag wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:21 pm This is what a ticket says when we reject a ticket:

This is what a ticket says when we mark it as IC:

This frankly should have been marked as IC, but it wasn't so whatever. If your ticket was REJECTED it is entirely likely you left out information or were lacking it yourself, especially as a third party. There's nothing wrong with rejecting a ticket in these scenarios. If you feel like you weren't heard just ahelp again and say so?

We don't know (or at least I don't) what the responses say word by word, so I don't blame Ned for picking one that wasn't precisely what described the given scenario.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:32 pm**

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:51 pm
Drag wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:21 pm This is what a ticket says when we reject a ticket:

This is what a ticket says when we mark it as IC:

This frankly should have been marked as IC, but it wasn't so whatever. If your ticket was REJECTED it is entirely likely you left out information or were lacking it yourself, especially as a third party. There's nothing wrong with rejecting a ticket in these scenarios. If you feel like you weren't heard just ahelp again and say so?
We don't know (or at least I don't) what the responses say word by word, so I don't blame Ned for picking one that wasn't precisely what described the given scenario.

What do you mean Neds trainer didn't teach them that shit...all admins should know roughly what those buttons do.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:56 pm**

Drag wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:32 pm
Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:51 pm
We don't know (or at least I don't) what the responses say word by word, so I don't blame Ned for picking one that wasn't precisely what described the given scenario.
What do you mean Neds trainer didn't teach them that shit...all admins should know roughly what those buttons do.

What I mean is that we don't have perfect memory. When pressing the ticket-ending buttons, I think "IC Issue - IC Issue", "Reject - No, I'm not doing that", "Resolve - Done", "Close - Not bothering the player with the message". That's why I usually stick to Resolved and Closed, but I can't blame another admin for pressing one of the others thinking about the general meaning of their title and ending up with something a bit different. Not saying this is what happened with Ned, but I wouldn't find it out of ordinary if they simply felt like the word "Rejected" fit better with the scenario, which it does.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:00 pm**

tl;dr:

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:01 pm**

Pepper wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:02 pm

Good meme

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:01 pm**

Scriptis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 4:15 pm the secret is to say "we'll look into it" then announce in admin chat that you intend to do nothing because it's an IC issue

the existence of this complaint demonstrates why this method is so valuable

Or just tell them that you're ruling it as a valid confrontation given the circumstances, no need to obfuscate the truth when doing anything else just leads to more false positive ahelps.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:03 pm**

You got the admins that whine in dchat and ooc when players see what they believe to be a rule infraction and don't ahelp, then the admins whining because someone ahelped over something they perceive as a non-issue. Admins legitimately don't know what they want lol.

also a lot of the people are replying to this with a LRP heavy perspective, forgetting this is MRP. Antags on Manuel are supposed to be executed in proportion to their crime and relevant to the threat of the antag along with the damage they've done. Is the dude with heretic armor and laser gun trespassing in the bridge a threat? Sure. How much on a scale of 1 being not at all and 10 being holy shit battlecruiser ops!!! With the given context, probably like a 3. Can he be safely detained? Was he confirmed to have any teleportation abilities that aren't linked to the blades, making him undetainable? Capturing people alive to keep the threat in the round and potentially have them do something more meaningful with the shift is more of the goal there than collecting valids.

maia wasn't wrong to ahelp but maybe a bit more nudging the ahelp in the direction of "antags have to be dealt in proportion to their crime and I don't think the mime was handled as such" would've been more explicit and helpful. asking the mime in dchat for further context would've also been great if that wasn't done.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:17 pm**

TypicalRig wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:03 pm You got the admins that whine in dchat and ooc when players see what they believe to be a rule infraction and don't ahelp, then the admins whining because someone ahelped over something they perceive as a non-issue. Admins legitimately don't know what they want lol.

also a lot of the people are replying to this with a LRP heavy perspective, forgetting this is MRP. Antags on Manuel are supposed to be executed in proportion to their crime and relevant to the threat of the antag along with the damage they've done. Is the dude with heretic armor and laser gun trespassing in the bridge a threat? Sure. How much on a scale of 1 being not at all and 10 being holy shit battlecruiser ops!!! With the given context, probably like a 3. Can he be safely detained? Was he confirmed to have any teleportation abilities that aren't linked to the blades, making him undetainable? Capturing people alive to keep the threat in the round and potentially have them do something more meaningful with the shift is more of the goal there than collecting valids.

maia wasn't wrong to ahelp but maybe a bit more nudging the ahelp in the direction of "antags have to be dealt in proportion to their crime and I don't think the mime was handled as such" would've been more explicit and helpful. asking the mime in dchat for further context would've also been great if that wasn't done.

If it's worth anything my most recent ban was to someone whom deadchat was whining about without an ahelp (rightly so, obviously).

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:20 pm**

The takeaway from this is that the enforcement of the rules depends on how sassy the admin feels that day.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:40 pm**

Fren256 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:20 pm The takeaway from this is that the enforcement of the rules depends on how sassy the admin feels that day.

Eh, enforcing rules through emotion like that is a fast track to getting your bollocks kicked so high up by the rest of the admin team they come outta your ears.

Posted: **Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:29 pm**

If it was round removal, I noticed some admins have gotten very strict on round removal on Manuel recently. I can see why people ahelped that if they have been getting the same vibes.

Usually when my ahelp doesn't matter I just don't get a response or anything. That's when I assume the admins online are simply not looking into it. I thought that was the general way they do it instead of saying to them: not looking Into it.

That kind of response does discourage players from ahelping, which is an issue to me. I want players to ahelp things for me as I do not ahelp much naturally.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 12:05 am**

Constellado wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 11:29 pm If it was round removal, I noticed some admins have gotten very strict on round removal on Manuel recently. I can see why people ahelped that if they have been getting the same vibes.

Usually when my ahelp doesn't matter I just don't get a response or anything. That's when I assume the admins online are simply not looking into it. I thought that was the general way they do it instead of saying to them: not looking Into it.

That kind of response does discourage players from ahelping, which is an issue to me. I want players to ahelp things for me as I do not ahelp much naturally.

You often get this effect when you have a team of multiple admins on at the same time when they all independently decide they don't care for an ahelp, but none are willing to assume nobody else cares for it, so none of them close it just in case.

Ahelps aren't rejected until they're closed, it definitely does happen that an ahelp gets passed over and then returned to when busy admins finish up whatever they're doing. (Though this can also lead to a defacto rejection because the delay while admins were busy led to the situation resolving itself, wacky mid-escalation tickets can end this way pretty easily, for example)

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:13 am**

i don't personally find much wrong with this response. it wasn't rude, but it was perhaps dismissive. however the report was being made by someone who wasn't involved and had no greater context of the situation. they don't really have any right to any further information about the people involved. there is a low effort checklist of things we will look at as part of information gathering around an issue, and pretty early on you can tell when something is a non-issue. there is also the fact that a lot of players are fine to take the L. sometimes it's better to let a situation ride when no one involved is making a fuss about it rather than to start tearing it apart and putting it under admin scrutiny. it can do more harm than what it fixes if you're not good at using your discretion about how impactful an issue is.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:44 am**

It may not seem like it but it really sucks on the players end to be dismissed after ahelping, like not even an IC issue button or a “this may just be IC” or even a “rule 10?????”

After a few times of it happening or hearing about it happen you kinda start to give up and enter the “IC or bust” mindset (which isn’t bad, but I imagine undesirable)

Also I will be damned to hell for 10000000000 years before I ahelp and nothing happens while 2 trialmins and an admin candidate laugh at my ticket

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:55 am**

i disagree with anyone who says that it's fine to misdirect or ignore player concerns outright. it hurts player trust in admins taking their concerns seriously, which they should be doing. but if every third-party report about an incident they weren't involved in required a full write-up of every decision the admin made about the issue then we would have no time for anything else. it should be a give and take relationship. the admin takes the player report seriously, and the player tries their best to accept the outcome from the admin taking it seriously.

if the person making the report was someone directly involved in the incident, then i would feel completely differently, and there would be no good reason to be dismissive about it.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:07 am**

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:55 am i disagree with anyone who says that it's fine to misdirect or ignore player concerns outright. it hurts player trust in admins taking their concerns seriously, which they should be doing. but if every third-party report about an incident they weren't involved in required a full write-up of every decision the admin made about the issue then we would have no time for anything else. it should be a give and take relationship. the admin takes the player report seriously, and the player tries their best to accept the outcome from the admin taking it seriously.

if the person making the report was someone directly involved in the incident, then i would feel completely differently, and there would be no good reason to be dismissive about it.

If only there was a button for this exact situation….

Nobody is asking for a dissertation here and this is still a lolcow complaint, but even in the most “admin based” complaints it’s easy to see where the frustrations as a player come from

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:28 am**

Both the IC issue and reject button messages feel way too hostile for me to press in 90% of situations. It doesn't cost much to explain yourself.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:30 am**

Sightld2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:28 am Both the IC issue and reject button messages feel way too hostile for me to press in 90% of situations. It doesn't cost much to explain yourself.

There's nothing wrong with the buttons themselves, it's pressing them without saying anything to the player that comes off as hostile.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:59 am**

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:55 am i disagree with anyone who says that it's fine to misdirect or ignore player concerns outright. it hurts player trust in admins taking their concerns seriously, which they should be doing. but if every third-party report about an incident they weren't involved in required a full write-up of every decision the admin made about the issue then we would have no time for anything else. it should be a give and take relationship. the admin takes the player report seriously, and the player tries their best to accept the outcome from the admin taking it seriously.

if the person making the report was someone directly involved in the incident, then i would feel completely differently, and there would be no good reason to be dismissive about it.

In all fairness my "Handled" thing was a meme and if any admin takes that as a piece of advice at face value they need to check themselves. This ain't a jab at you, of course, it's a jab at people who are clueless to take it seriously.

I apologize tho.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:15 pm**

TypicalRig wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:03 pm You got the admins that whine in dchat and ooc when players see what they believe to be a rule infraction and don't ahelp, then the admins whining because someone ahelped over something they perceive as a non-issue. Admins legitimately don't know what they want lol.

Completely false. There's just more than one kind of admin. I made a handy dandy chart to help explain it!

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:28 pm**

ekaterina wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:30 am
Sightld2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:28 am Both the IC issue and reject button messages feel way too hostile for me to press in 90% of situations. It doesn't cost much to explain yourself.
There's nothing wrong with the buttons themselves, it's pressing them without saying anything to the player that comes off as hostile.

Well put. If im going to press the IC issue button, I'll elaborate before doing it and give you some boxing gloves to solve your problem.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:16 pm**

NikNakFlak wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:15 pm
TypicalRig wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 9:03 pm You got the admins that whine in dchat and ooc when players see what they believe to be a rule infraction and don't ahelp, then the admins whining because someone ahelped over something they perceive as a non-issue. Admins legitimately don't know what they want lol.
Completely false. There's just more than one kind of admin. I made a handy dandy chart to help explain it!

Using your pfp can you please show where you fall on the chart.

/tg/Station 13

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