/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34901

I am really not sure I agree with the use of the word bias in that ticket from our hero.

i am very biased against security, in fact i am so biased against sec that it is my most played job on TG

The player just got overwhelmed with the situation and committed suicide. Pretty sad that we note people for something they can't control.

you control the buttons you press

Spoken like someone who has never met a neurodivergent person in their entire life....

lmao

Bmon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:57 am i am very biased against security, in fact i am so biased against sec that it is my most played job on TG

Masochist over here.

Biased-mon makes Bmon sound like some sort of Pokémon.

This dude failed the basics of sec and ahelp conduct

Who else but plasmamen

i'm not reading all these words

i honestly do feel for this dude, hos is worse than captain for stress, probably the worst in the game for it, and under the heatlamp of rules (mrp rules at that) it can be really easy to just throw your hands up and say fuck it, i'm not doing this anymore because of how much it sucks.

but it was a situation that could've been easily resolved with a deep breath and taking 10 seconds to calm down. bmon is a good dude who is understanding of players in shitty situations, but if you're combative then the ways in which you can be helped quickly start to dwindle. i hope the player is doing alright because it seems like they've taken the whole situation pretty hard. it's no big deal really, i'm pretty sure every hos experiences suicidal thoughts.

From my experiences with the player in question, he's usually quite fun and trustworthy, I highly doubt his actions were malicious, just suffering from a stressful situation. It'd be a shame if we lost another sec player to this because often on Manuel, security's really lacking or filled with shitters.

As for the people who say it wasn't stressful, think about this: You're the Head of Security, your role is to herd your department and make sure the station doesn't fall into anarchy as a result of enemies of the corporation or other such criminal acts, that means wrangling potentially a lot of people. You manage to arrest one of these ne'er-do-wells but suddenly someone completely random runs up, slips you and releases said ne'er-do-well. You stun them, accidentally harmbaton them once but do it again for good measure, surely it wouldn't do any harm, right?

You take them to the brig and strip them, accidentally removing their plasma tank in the process, you manage to put it back on and open the valve, but unknown to you, it's too late. You leave them bucklecuffed (which while not against the rules is still not the nicest thing to do) and then run off, no doubt to look for that troublemaker who escaped in the first place.

Suddenly, you get bwoinked and an Admin is breathing down your neck in a seemingly angry tone, accusing you of purposefully leaving someone critted in their cell, you try to find them but all the doors have been opened and you can't see them anywhere, meanwhile the station is full of people acting like people do when security is busy (For example: Like lil tidin' shits).

While suicide wasn't the right idea and the player could've tried to respond in a more polite manner, this was clearly stressful and Bmon's aggressive tone from the start clearly didn't help, he assumed the player was guilty from the very start, at least to me, and it's really a shame because Bmon usually is a cool dude.

time to learn botany maybe

reading this situation made me sad.

anyways, this is a classic “start out the ticket with accusations” moment

honestly giving an annoying detainee a lil harmbaton here and there is a perk of the job, especially for the hos. it should be expected. i used to do it all the time when i played sec and i'm not ashamed to admit it. some people deserve a beating and i'll be the first to hand it out...

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 5:57 pm honestly giving an annoying detainee a lil harmbaton here and there is a perk of the job, especially for the hos. it should be expected. i used to do it all the time when i played sec and i'm not ashamed to admit it. some people deserve a beating and i'll be the first to hand it out...

2 harm batons for people who interfere with arrests is 8 too few

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 5:55 pm anyways, this is a classic “start out the ticket with accusations” moment

Not just starting but continuing, since the player was accused of round removal (which...they're in a cell, is that really round removal now?), it'd probably give me the message that I wasn't welcome for a while.

I still kind of feel like security has way too much shit slanted against it. You have the clusterfuck of dynamic*, with multiple antags being station ending threats, but you also have to catch and release, all the while 10-15% of the crew will always act like antag-lite and actively hinder security at every waking moment, you deal with borgs trying to intervene because people will immediately squeal "HUMAN HARM HOS KILLIN ME" if you baton them, and if you fuck up once you'll get ahelped.

Then people turn around and go "Why are the only sec mains masochist, or assholes?"

We had a time where there was only 1-3 security on Manuel some rounds during peak hours and it was complete shit.

*I absolutely refuse to believe that dynamic is designed around 1-3 security like some maintainers have claimed. It's not.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:05 pm and if you fuck up once you'll get ahelped.

Not just ahelped, but quite bluntly so, automatically accusing you of doing something rather than possibly just committing a mistake, this is also ignoring the conduct of the other player in question considering they said absolutely NOTHING while they were initially dying and while the HoS was still around. They could've just said "Hey I'm dying" or something of that sort instead of going in D-chat "wow i sure do love when the head of security roundkills me".

i think dynamic is cool but it has created a very different atmosphere for a lot of the game, especially on mrp. my sec career sorta ended after the first deployment of dynamic. i enjoyed the downtime of the role a lot when it was just gamemodes and rounds were a lot calmer on average. the roleplay angle of walking the beat, solving minor crimes, fining people, resolving roleplay situations that aren't just driven by antag mechanics, all of that stuff really got put on the backburner with how much dynamic ramped up the intensity of rounds. i do like it because it adds a lot to the game, but the one caveat is that it made sec sort of too intense for me to enjoy it in a roleplay aspect anymore. if you spend too long "roleplaying" then everyone is pissed that you seemingly rolled over and let the antags win, when really you wanted to do a little more than be a validhunter with a license to kill.

Bmon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:57 am i am very biased against security, in fact i am so biased against sec that it is my most played job on TG

However you mostly play in medical these days, with security being an occasional pick, this isn't to discredit your words entirely, only to say that it isn't the uncontroversial evidence to the contrary you think it is.

TypicalRig wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:35 pm Biased-mon makes Bmon sound like some sort of Pokémon.

thats digimon you inedible bean

AsbestosSniffer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:28 pm

Bmon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:57 am i am very biased against security, in fact i am so biased against sec that it is my most played job on TG

However you mostly play in medical these days, with security being an occasional pick, this isn't to discredit your words entirely, only to say that it isn't the uncontroversial evidence to the contrary you think it is.

still my top pick on paradise where sec is arguably a way more stressful job to play there

i think if you combine my tg and para sec hours its like 1000+

the trick is to get into the mindset of not letting what they do bother you

if you dont know what to do a nice 30 point gulag will get most shitters to ssd

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:58 pm the trick is to get into the mindset of not letting what they do bother you

if you dont know what to do a nice 30 point gulag will get most shitters to ssd

Ha. Word! A 30 point sentence does work every single time as messed up as it is. Some folks would rather break out and go through lava than mine 6 sand floors. All in order to keep escalation towards you and security.

iansdoor wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:05 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:58 pm the trick is to get into the mindset of not letting what they do bother you

if you dont know what to do a nice 30 point gulag will get most shitters to ssd

Ha. Word! A 30 point sentence does work every single time as messed up as it is. Some folks would rather break out and go through lava than mine 6 sand floors. All in order to keep escalation towards you and security.

if i find out they broke out i build them a 3x3 metal wall cell in perma

and yeah its sad. i figure they break out because they DONT EVEN BOTHER CHECKING THE AMOUNT OF POINTS.

okay but not being able to turn on someone`s internals when the tank is in their pocket is cringe.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:14 pm i think dynamic is cool but it has created a very different atmosphere for a lot of the game, especially on mrp. my sec career sorta ended after the first deployment of dynamic. i enjoyed the downtime of the role a lot when it was just gamemodes and rounds were a lot calmer on average. the roleplay angle of walking the beat, solving minor crimes, fining people, resolving roleplay situations that aren't just driven by antag mechanics, all of that stuff really got put on the backburner with how much dynamic ramped up the intensity of rounds. i do like it because it adds a lot to the game, but the one caveat is that it made sec sort of too intense for me to enjoy it in a roleplay aspect anymore. if you spend too long "roleplaying" then everyone is pissed that you seemingly rolled over and let the antags win, when really you wanted to do a little more than be a validhunter with a license to kill.

Summed up perfectly. Sec is in a fuck or be fucked situation. There's no really having fun as sec.

Manuel sec is VERY fun to play, though most of the time there's zero threat, and any valid get instantly deep fried by 5 seccies with laser guns, due to them not seeing any antag activity for an hour. Still, I mostly have fun by screwing around with assistants/clowns.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:05 pm I still kind of feel like security has way too much shit slanted against it. You have the clusterfuck of dynamic*, with multiple antags being station ending threats, but you also have to catch and release, all the while 10-15% of the crew will always act like antag-lite and actively hinder security at every waking moment, you deal with borgs trying to intervene because people will immediately squeal "HUMAN HARM HOS KILLIN ME" if you baton them, and if you fuck up once you'll get ahelped.

Then people turn around and go "Why are the only sec mains masochist, or assholes?"

We had a time where there was only 1-3 security on Manuel some rounds during peak hours and it was complete shit.

*I absolutely refuse to believe that dynamic is designed around 1-3 security like some maintainers have claimed. It's not.

I've pretty much quit Sec, even though I was a Det Main who loved it. I can have my theories all I like, but even when I usually turn out to be right, there's no smoking gun for Sec to actually do anything more than just a Search. And by the time I can manage to gather one, there's 27 blobs, 6 dragons, the Ninja has just bombed Medbay while they're fighting off a Sentient Disease, and the Nuclear Wizards just absorbed the Captain in maintenance.

There just isn't enough time to actually do any investigating before things have gone so off the rails that even if you call out a full Cluedo answer ("It was John Smith, the Botanist, in Atmospherics with a DEsword") the team will either be too busy to notice, or notice but not care because there are bigger problems.

Dynamic definitely still needs work, me thinks.

Edit:

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:14 pm i think dynamic is cool but it has created a very different atmosphere for a lot of the game, especially on mrp. my sec career sorta ended after the first deployment of dynamic. i enjoyed the downtime of the role a lot when it was just gamemodes and rounds were a lot calmer on average. the roleplay angle of walking the beat, solving minor crimes, fining people, resolving roleplay situations that aren't just driven by antag mechanics, all of that stuff really got put on the backburner with how much dynamic ramped up the intensity of rounds. i do like it because it adds a lot to the game, but the one caveat is that it made sec sort of too intense for me to enjoy it in a roleplay aspect anymore. if you spend too long "roleplaying" then everyone is pissed that you seemingly rolled over and let the antags win, when really you wanted to do a little more than be a validhunter with a license to kill.

Very much this. I almost miss the old gamemodes because you got that time for stuff. It'd be nice to see them come back, with Dynamic as just one of the modes that can roll. If we still ran it on Secret, you wouldn't know if that Cultist means it's a flat out Cult round, or Dynamic gave you Cult today. But it'd still give you those slower rounds, too.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:14 pm i think dynamic is cool but it has created a very different atmosphere for a lot of the game, especially on mrp. my sec career sorta ended after the first deployment of dynamic. i enjoyed the downtime of the role a lot when it was just gamemodes and rounds were a lot calmer on average. the roleplay angle of walking the beat, solving minor crimes, fining people, resolving roleplay situations that aren't just driven by antag mechanics, all of that stuff really got put on the backburner with how much dynamic ramped up the intensity of rounds. i do like it because it adds a lot to the game, but the one caveat is that it made sec sort of too intense for me to enjoy it in a roleplay aspect anymore. if you spend too long "roleplaying" then everyone is pissed that you seemingly rolled over and let the antags win, when really you wanted to do a little more than be a validhunter with a license to kill.

Dynamic and it's consequences have been disastrous for MRP. One of four traitors with an hour of time and the occasional random event to spice things up will always have a better chance at "VS Security/ VS Station" roleplay than one of fifteen constantly spawning antags that security must insta-valid and round remove just to keep the station afloat.

In addition, the ability to let antags get away with minimal stress isn't present because every single antagonist snowballs into a Super Saiyan that can singlehandedly nuke the station. So now there are constantly spawning ticking timebombs that security MUST handle or else everyone has a pretty good chance at dying, and security can't roleplay with individual antagonists because they're on such a time crunch that the only way to do their job well is to ensure every antag discovered is permanently dead.

Maybe this is something I can change with config when I'm promoted, maybe it isn't. I just know that dynamic and snowball antags have not helped MRP thrive as a roleplay server.

EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 2:32 am

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:14 pm i think dynamic is cool but it has created a very different atmosphere for a lot of the game, especially on mrp. my sec career sorta ended after the first deployment of dynamic. i enjoyed the downtime of the role a lot when it was just gamemodes and rounds were a lot calmer on average. the roleplay angle of walking the beat, solving minor crimes, fining people, resolving roleplay situations that aren't just driven by antag mechanics, all of that stuff really got put on the backburner with how much dynamic ramped up the intensity of rounds. i do like it because it adds a lot to the game, but the one caveat is that it made sec sort of too intense for me to enjoy it in a roleplay aspect anymore. if you spend too long "roleplaying" then everyone is pissed that you seemingly rolled over and let the antags win, when really you wanted to do a little more than be a validhunter with a license to kill.

Summed up perfectly. Sec is in a fuck or be fucked situation. There's no really having fun as sec.

>put baton and disabler in sec locker
>go to bar
>take off helmet
>sit down

it's just that easy!

Deal with the problems that are in front of you as sec and ignore the rest until they too are in front of you. Otherwise you'll be running all over handing out half-assed resolutions left and right, while also going crazy.

The ticket looks fine too. Player was given a chance to correct things ICly and didn't, thus it was handled OOCly. cest la vie

Admin was a bit accusatory in that. It does come across as that admin had already made up their mind as to what had happened, rather than asking 'hey what's going on' , they were like 'hey why did you deliberately do this?'...

That said, some sec players are absolute cancer. I got lethalled to death the other day simply for resisting arrest because of 'moving a space heater'. I didn't even fucking know I was wanted, so had a sec officer wordlessly shooting me with disablers and when I tried to run and ask why I was wanted they then resorted to lethals. Then when I made an ahelp about it, I got told by the admin - 'it's fine they were new'....

So I think having to deal with shit-sec half the time or powergaming HOS's (who run around with their shields out at round start) etc is what causes usually calm players to decide to fuck with sec. And then anyone who plays sec usually does so to treat any kind of minor crime as the end of the world with no space for nuance or discretion.

I have no answers, but it's a vicious circle. Sec being a necessary evil, but usually played by the worst types of players/powergamers and getting wound up by non-sec who are sick of their shit and resist arrest just because it won't make a difference to their sentence anyway.

And half the time you report a crime to security and they either don't bother investigating it, ignore you or get distracted by something else.

What the fuck do I have to do with the matter

wesoda25 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 2:42 pm Deal with the problems that are in front of you as sec and ignore the rest until they too are in front of you. Otherwise you'll be running all over handing out half-assed resolutions left and right, while also going crazy.

The ticket looks fine too. Player was given a chance to correct things ICly and didn't, thus it was handled OOCly. cest la vie

this is really good advice

sec should probably get a blurb when they sign up that says RELAX AND TAKE IT EASY ITS JUST A SPACEGAME

Bmon more like demon

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 8:48 pm

wesoda25 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 2:42 pm Deal with the problems that are in front of you as sec and ignore the rest until they too are in front of you. Otherwise you'll be running all over handing out half-assed resolutions left and right, while also going crazy.

The ticket looks fine too. Player was given a chance to correct things ICly and didn't, thus it was handled OOCly. cest la vie

this is really good advice

sec should probably get a blurb when they sign up that says RELAX AND TAKE IT EASY ITS JUST A SPACEGAME

yeah this would be nice

I don't get it

I'm a bit late but for the record I see nothing wrong with how Bmon opened the ticket, that is what he saw from his ahelp with the plasmaman and logs (citation needed) and it is fine to ask why they did that. If they didn't do it they can just explain they did not, which is fine. I will often ask people why they did something if it looks like they did it, there is nothing wrong with that and I don't see how it is accusatory to ask someone why they did something we think they did. They can correct us.

I started playing manuel well after dynamic was already a thing, but just gonna say that, as both sec, non-sec crew, and antag, I love dynamic. Manuel rounds are already much longer/slower-paced on average then sybil/terry rounds which is something I like. But in particular I like that although manuel rounds START slower (usually the first ~30 mins is pretty slow) they do still tend to ramp up to the same intensity near the end as LRP rounds. I prefer the slower burn at the start but it still reaches the same heights of chaos. I sincerely hope manuel doesn't get all the threat and action taken out of it and turned into boring 3 hour rounds with nothing happening. It's space station 13. The space station is meant to blow up. The redshirts are meant to die en masse. The crew is meant to be faced with bleak, dramatic situations, and overrun by badguys. And maybe, just maybe, the crew will still somehow prevail, and you'll make it out alive. The drama, the struggle against inevitable odds, is a good part of the game. And another nice thing about manuel as well is that I think people tend to take the drama more seriously than the LRP servers too. But in order for any of that to work there have to be stakes, and sometimes you just have to play the part of one of the corpses littering the ground, silently killed in order to make someone else's experience better. It's just part of the game imo.

I have a lot of reasons I prefer manuel over the LRP servers but lame snoozefest rounds are (thankfully) not one of them. Buildup is no good without payoff. When that red-alert button gets smacked, I know we're in for a good time. I don't want to survive to the end of a round without struggling at least a little bit..

Although one thing I DO dislike is when dynamic spawns the same major antag like twice in a row (revs, cult, wiz, nukies, etc.). I wish that would be coded out.

MrrFiish wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 10:13 pm I'm a bit late but for the record I see nothing wrong with how Bmon opened the ticket, that is what he saw from his ahelp with the plasmaman and logs (citation needed) and it is fine to ask why they did that. If they didn't do it they can just explain they did not, which is fine. I will often ask people why they did something if it looks like they did it, there is nothing wrong with that and I don't see how it is accusatory to ask someone why they did something we think they did. They can correct us.

Every ticket fated to end in IC issue starts with "Why did you do that?"

95% of the time they still end in IC issue. Sometimes though the player rolls 1 and shoot themselves aggressively in the foot several times.

JupiterJaeden wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 11:49 pm I started playing manuel well after dynamic was already a thing, but just gonna say that, as both sec, non-sec crew, and antag, I love dynamic. Manuel rounds are already much longer/slower-paced on average then sybil/terry rounds which is something I like. But in particular I like that although manuel rounds START slower (usually the first ~30 mins is pretty slow) they do still tend to ramp up to the same intensity near the end as LRP rounds. I prefer the slower burn at the start but it still reaches the same heights of chaos. I sincerely hope manuel doesn't get all the threat and action taken out of it and turned into boring 3 hour rounds with nothing happening. It's space station 13. The space station is meant to blow up. The redshirts are meant to die en masse. The crew is meant to be faced with bleak, dramatic situations, and overrun by badguys. And maybe, just maybe, the crew will still somehow prevail, and you'll make it out alive. The drama, the struggle against inevitable odds, is a good part of the game. And another nice thing about manuel as well is that I think people tend to take the drama more seriously than the LRP servers too. But in order for any of that to work there have to be stakes, and sometimes you just have to play the part of one of the corpses littering the ground, silently killed in order to make someone else's experience better. It's just part of the game imo.

I have a lot of reasons I prefer manuel over the LRP servers but lame snoozefest rounds are (thankfully) not one of them. Buildup is no good without payoff. When that red-alert button gets smacked, I know we're in for a good time. I don't want to survive to the end of a round without struggling at least a little bit..

Although one thing I DO dislike is when dynamic spawns the same major antag like twice in a row (revs, cult, wiz, nukies, etc.). I wish that would be coded out.

I like that as well, but I also like slower rounds that are chill. It lets players mess around and experiment with stuff that might not inherently be optimal. 1/3-2/3-rds of the station being dead and half the station being blown up every round isn't exactly what I joined manuel for and I imagine that I'm not the only person. I liked Manuel because it struck a balance between literally nothing happening (most RP servers) and the station being bombed five minutes into the round. I'd still say Manuel strikes that balance but it's definitely leaning heavier into the "station bombed five minutes into the round" territory. Not that bombings are particularly common on Manuel but hopefully I'm making sense.

As it currently stands depending on what job department you work in dynamic actively works against you. Good luck actually roleplaying as security when there are four changelings (yes this happened on a round of 40 people with two security officers, guess how well that round went) It's kind of like nukies where the occasional round of nukies is neat, back to Back-to-back Nukies has killed manuel's nightpop more than once. Dynamic will never be good because it's trying to emulate when admins were dungeon masters. It doesn't help that admins either sit by as an antag fucks the station for 30+ minutes* or they try to tardwrangle dynamic when it is overwhelming the station for the fifth round in a row and the only two security officers are either dead in maints (as they have been since five minutes into the round) or are on suicide watch.

*To be fair I wouldn't know what the fuck to do in that situation either

IDK if it's just me but the latest change to dynamic kept shitting out 60+ threat rounds, and it burned me out pretty bad, we had xenos 4-5 times in like, two days. (granted, one time was because RD was an idiot and let his xeno project escape (XENOS ALWAYS ESCAPE)). Even rounds that start off simple have started just meaning that Dynamic is constipated and is going to shit out all its threat at the midround roll now. Have fun fighting xenos, a ninja, and a sentient disease that always hits once medbay is fucked. I refuse to believe dynamic is working correctly because this shit seems wonky as fuck. It seems super heavily weighted towards being 60+ threat.

I'm probably going to take a break and/or playing less because dynamic being even more poopy + manuel not even trying to vaguely be a roleplay server just makes me sad when I play it now.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:09 am (granted, one time was because RD was an idiot and let his xeno project escape (XENOS ALWAYS ESCAPE)).

seriously, name one time xenos havent escaped

Timonk wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2023 12:49 am Bmon more like demon

big if true

it is

kinnebian wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:38 am

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:09 am (granted, one time was because RD was an idiot and let his xeno project escape (XENOS ALWAYS ESCAPE)).

seriously, name one time xenos havent escaped

I can basically only remember one time when xenos hadn't escaped but were released with purpose and brought the bio-engineered wrath from NT onto Culties?
Cult (or whoever they were, I'm sure it was cult?) were winning.
Xenos were let out on the basis of freedom to only fight Culties and they could make a nest wherever just don't hurt innocent crew .. I think a curator was brought in as a diplomat/translator?
Xenos got to have their own fun shredding up and harvesting culties and it was the first time ever I saw crew and xenos team up.
Good times.

I go out of my way to kill the egg in xenobio every time it spawns