/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35062

Just do a restart vote if you care that much about getting back to meta station for your super fast department setups and knowing literally every nook and cranny

mfw players think they can vote their way out of the rules.

maybe you could whip around and have the players vote you out of your ban?

oranges wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 5:36 am mfw players think they can vote their way out of the rules.

maybe you could whip around and have the players vote you out of your ban?

I feel bad for our mappers with how much capital G Gamers fuss about how a map is sub optimal

He could've just built a contained singularity/tesla and it would produce the same result. There is a 100% chance a wizard will exist and rod the field generators.

Okay but to be fair, Northstar is literally unplayable.

Not "ooooh, I don't like the layout" like people talk about with Birdshot (Birdshot good, btw), it is literally unplayable in that it's performance is so trash that it makes icebox look like a high-performance map.

Anyway, what rule is he even accused of breaking here?

You know, in TTRPGs (and I guess any other group activity but I'm not in a band or anything so idk) there are two kinds of players. They branch out into more different ones, but it's always two different ones. People who are there to make fun for themselves, and people who are there to make fun for everyone else.

The latter is always better than the former 'cos if everyone is focused on making the game better for other people, they are invariably gonna have a better experience since someone is looking out for them having a good time. The former is always forms a bouquet of dicks. Usually you have a mix of both and the group ends up having "This guy" and "That guy".

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:55 am Okay but to be fair, Northstar is literally unplayable.

So people who rolled antag should just sit on their hands and do a big :T face 'cos the banned guy is a little baby and had like 4 of his metafriends say "yeah delam that shit"? 'cos that'll make maintainers want to keep the map in rotation HARDER, you know.

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:14 am

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:55 am Okay but to be fair, Northstar is literally unplayable.

So people who rolled antag should just sit on their hands and do a big :T face 'cos the banned guy is a little baby and had like 4 of his metafriends say "yeah delam that shit"? 'cos that'll make maintainers want to keep the map in rotation HARDER, you know.

Northstar map layout good

Northstar performance bad

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:55 am Okay but to be fair, Northstar is literally unplayable.

Not "ooooh, I don't like the layout" like people talk about with Birdshot (Birdshot good, btw), it is literally unplayable in that it's performance is so trash that it makes icebox look like a high-performance map.

Anyway, what rule is he even accused of breaking here?

Multi-z levels were a mistake. I've had like, two good interactions ever from a map being multi-z level. One of which was when science made a fucky wucky with an explosion and a bunch of debris and a dead scientist came tumbling down into the northstar cargo bay, which was funny. The rest are just "blob/spiders/xenos destroyed all the stairs" I like Northstar when it's like, 40-50 pop but 60-80 pop chugs hard and sub-40 pop it has the same issues of tram of "big map, too few players"

I like Icebox despite it being a z-level map because for 90% of the time, the z-level nature of the map is basically unnoticeable. That is, until the blob sets up in icebox atmos or speedruns destroying all the ladders and stairs AGAIN.

Z-levels conceptually are cool, in reality it just leads to frustration trying to navigate the map and cheap moves like sniping all the stairs or constantly running up and down the stairs to avoid being hit by melee.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:22 am

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:14 am

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:55 am Okay but to be fair, Northstar is literally unplayable.

So people who rolled antag should just sit on their hands and do a big :T face 'cos the banned guy is a little baby and had like 4 of his metafriends say "yeah delam that shit"? 'cos that'll make maintainers want to keep the map in rotation HARDER, you know.

Northstar map layout good

Northstar performance bad

Just change some settings then.

If you perform real badly on Ns you can lower your parallax

Good argument by the admeme. 12/48 vote participants is not even close to a quorum if we really want to go ham on the "democratic" take. 1/6 of the server agreeing to a singulo isn't a good reason to round-end delam the shift by a non-antag.

I still think it would be different if it were lowpop and 8 or 9/10 living players agreed to it, though.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:07 am Good argument by the admeme. 12/48 vote participants is not even close to a quorum if we really want to go ham on the "democratic" take. 1/6 of the server agreeing to a singulo isn't a good reason to round-end delam the shift by a non-antag.

I still think it would be different if it were lowpop and 8 or 9/10 living players agreed to it, though.

NorthStar is never chosen on lowpop and the performance is partly due to the server pop anyway.

runs on my machine

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:55 am Okay but to be fair, Northstar is literally unplayable.

Not "ooooh, I don't like the layout" like people talk about with Birdshot (Birdshot good, btw), it is literally unplayable in that it's performance is so trash that it makes icebox look like a high-performance map.

Anyway, what rule is he even accused of breaking here?

It's a Rule 1. There is this ruling here that includes "I don't like this map" as a flimsy reason to end the round early; viewtopic.php?f=33&t=30481&p=623669#p623669
In this instance, it is about having the AI force a shuttle call. In the instance of this player, he has created a station wide disaster to force a shuttle call. If one of these is not acceptable, why would you think potentially killing multiple people and causing station wide destruction as a nonantag is going to be seen as an acceptable alternative?

The only part I disagree with Isratosh's answer is him giving the guy a third chance. I would not give someone getting Permabanned for roughly the same reason in such a short amount of time a "come back in 6 months" deal.

Very generous of him fr. Damn good deal.

Northstar good (I need to play it more actually)

The only thing that kills it for me is there not being Star Trek-esque uniforms from roundstart. After such an impossible feat of a map you can't pull that off? C'mon now.

0/10

They tried, it got blocked by headcoders.

Agux909 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:01 pm Northstar good (I need to play it more actually)

The only thing that kills it for me is there not being Star Trek-esque uniforms from roundstart. After such an impossible feat of a map you can't pull that off? C'mon now.

0/10

I forgot exactly where they are, but I've seen some near the command area I think.

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:21 pm They tried, it got blocked by headcoders.

I was of course jesting, and also fooling myself, hoping it was merely one of those quirky, bullshit engine limitations tg code has sometimes, out of anyone's control. Anything but such jaded, undue and pointless behavior towards creativity and fun.

I have to admit I am very naive, oftentimes.


Back to the peanut, screw this guy. Long live Northstar.

Creating a Singulo is the single most cool thing you can ever do, but doing it because you don't like the map is lame.
This was a Karmically neutral act.

lame engineering strat: go singulo to end the round because you don't like the map

cool engineering strat: rally your department to make a tesla engine on a BYOS so that when it invariably gets loose it's a) cool as hell and b) everyone helped make it and c) the round already lasted an hour

this is how you rule 0 all the admins away and get picked up to be a sybil admin (apply to be a sybil admin)

I don't know what's up with the performance. I was blown away in April with 512 getting tested and the North Star running incredibly well (even on my last shitty PC) and now it feels like performance has tanked and maptick is all the way up.

>I was just following the will of the people

I too, am a fellow enjoyer of the public trust lawset

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:55 am Okay but to be fair, Northstar is literally unplayable.

Not "ooooh, I don't like the layout" like people talk about with Birdshot (Birdshot good, btw), it is literally unplayable in that it's performance is so trash that it makes icebox look like a high-performance map.

Anyway, what rule is he even accused of breaking here?

the rule where you cant delam the sm because you dont like the map
i normally defend the appealer but idk what their defense is here

Scriptis wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:02 pm this is how you rule 0 all the admins away and get picked up to be a sybil admin (apply to be a sybil admin)

Only if it comes with mental health care

Scriptis wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:02 pm lame engineering strat: go singulo to end the round because you don't like the map

cool engineering strat: rally your department to make a tesla engine on a BYOS so that when it invariably gets loose it's a) cool as hell and b) everyone helped make it and c) the round already lasted an hour

this is how you rule 0 all the admins away and get picked up to be a sybil admin (apply to be a sybil admin)

Sadly the tesla would get spaced on shittle launch.

players are not entitled to manipulate the round and try to end it for OOC reasons because they don't like x or y element. you either participate or don't.

the game has integral elements that are intended to be obstacles or to frustrate you and trip you up. if you can't take that in your stride and handle it with style then you're probably playing the wrong game.

I think northstar is pretty and nice
the only reason people dont like it (besides having shit computers, in which case shrimply stop playing ss13 noob) is because its new and they dont know where everything is. give it time fellers....

I have a powerful gaming PC and Northstar still lags the shit out of my game. That being said, I think its a fine map, its Birdshot that blatantly sucks and should be removed (again).

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:25 pm I have a powerful gaming PC and Northstar still lags the shit out of my game. That being said, I think its a fine map, its Birdshot that blatantly sucks and should be removed (again).

haha no guys see it’s funny that it’s a shit map that’s so funny bro please don’t look at how birdshot only gets selected 90% of the time when someone does a map vote in the middle of something so people miss the notification noise haha and the other 10% of the time is because it’s the middle of the night and ten people are on haha so funni Xd oh look even the shuttle is shitty haha so epic

I miss Kilo and I wasn’t even a big fan of Kilo. IIRC the reason birdshot was added and kilo was removed was because no one wanted to maintain kilo

The only fun I ever had on birdshot is when atoms was fucked so all the windows imploded on the station and when the shuttle docked it imploded as well.

If northstar lags the shit out of your game (like LAG) you should lower paralax, it can also be due to normal factors (high atmos td, slow internet, etc). The issue also most likely stems from a general increase in maptick, and gets worse at higher playercounts (to northstars detriment since its a highpop map).

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:37 pm If northstar lags the shit out of your game (like LAG) you should lower paralax, it can also be due to normal factors (high atmos td, slow internet, etc). The issue also most likely stems from a general increase in maptick, and gets worse at higher playercounts (to northstars detriment since its a highpop map).

My game doesn’t lag but the server time dilation usually sits at like 30% if it’s 60-80 people on Northstar. The lag spike that happens 5-10 second after shift start is way worse on Northstar as well.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:38 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:37 pm If northstar lags the shit out of your game (like LAG) you should lower paralax, it can also be due to normal factors (high atmos td, slow internet, etc). The issue also most likely stems from a general increase in maptick, and gets worse at higher playercounts (to northstars detriment since its a highpop map).

My game doesn’t lag but the server time dilation usually sits at like 30% if it’s 60-80 people on Northstar. The lag spike that happens 5-10 second after shift start is way worse on Northstar as well.

Odd, Terry pulls around 9-17% on 70-90, at least from what I've seen in games.

ngl i like birdshot and it's not because it makes other people miserable. i like it because it reminds me of the classiqué (italian pinched fingers emoji) ss13 on a space station designed by someone who did not ever think it would have more than 10 people with no bad intentions bumbling around playing it. i love the game in its current form, but we are streamlined, advanced, faster, stronger, the pinnacle of highly trained dweebs on an overflowing space station of other shellshocked mfs conditioned to violence. our maps are designed to accommodate this. it is nice to see a little bit of the old boomer dna of the game's design mixed in with this new hardcore rgb keyboard modern iteration of the game.

i'll always rep maps that try to do something goofy or experimental. metastation is my favourite map, but only because it's the blank canvas, vanilla baseline experience that you can always jump into. we need to let people get weird with that formula and try to be open to it.

I like meta because it has literally been polished for almost 10 years now and has everything anyone in any role would ever want

When metastation was added ERP was still allowed

Cheshify wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:04 pm I don't know what's up with the performance. I was blown away in April with 512 getting tested and the North Star running incredibly well (even on my last shitty PC) and now it feels like performance has tanked and maptick is all the way up.

It's nothing to do with your map and it's something we are aware of, people here are not qualified to determine what is or is not the cause of performance issues and in this case are allowing their biases to show through.

oranges wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:24 pm It's nothing to do with your map and it's something we are aware of

Oranges is downloading massive amounts of MILF porn onto official tgstation servers, mainly terry for some reason

I dont knwo if it counts as milf porn if i'm old enough to just date them normally though.

Oranges is a DILF?? No way

dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:53 pm i'll always rep maps that try to do something goofy or experimental.

I mean, considering Birdshot has already been on rotation before and removed for being a bad map, I wouldn't personally deem it experimental. It's been tried before and it sucked, so I don't see how making minimal changes and shoving it back in really does anything. To nobody's surprise, Birdboat sucked and Birdshot still sucks too.

oranges wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:24 pm

Cheshify wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:04 pm I don't know what's up with the performance. I was blown away in April with 512 getting tested and the North Star running incredibly well (even on my last shitty PC) and now it feels like performance has tanked and maptick is all the way up.

It's nothing to do with your map and it's something we are aware of, people here are not qualified to determine what is or is not the cause of performance issues and in this case are allowing their biases to show through.

Thanks for the good response Oranges. I do think people will see an issue and just attribute it to something random as a scapegoat/excuse for them to hate a project.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:33 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:25 pm I have a powerful gaming PC and Northstar still lags the shit out of my game. That being said, I think its a f

The map author for birdshot was active (iirc they went inactive right after it was merged though)

Making stuff up

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:00 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:53 pm i'll always rep maps that try to do something goofy or experimental.

I mean, considering Birdshot has already been on rotation before and removed for being a bad map, I wouldn't personally deem it experimental. It's been tried before and it sucked, so I don't see how making minimal changes and shoving it back in really does anything. To nobody's surprise, Birdboat sucked and Birdshot still sucks too.

You're thinking of Birdboat, which is a completely different map to Birdshot. Birdshot is merely inspired by Birdboat.

Rageguy505 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:22 am

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:33 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:25 pm I have a powerful gaming PC and Northstar still lags the shit out of my game. That being said, I think its a f

The map author for birdshot was active (iirc they went inactive right after it was merged though)

Making stuff up

Ah, my bad then.

The virgin "NOOOO NOOO I WANT ANOTHER FUCKING BOX SHAPED MAP GIVE IT TO ME OR I'M GOING TO DELAM" virgins vs the chad "God I love unique maps with cool layouts" debate seems to have resulted in another loss for the virgins. Northstar and birdshot haters stay mad~

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:41 am You're thinking of Birdboat, which is a completely different map to Birdshot. Birdshot is merely inspired by Birdboat.

Birdshot is a renovated version of Birdboat, it shares an extremely similar layout to the point where I just consider it an updated version of the map. This layout inheritance is also what absolutely makes Birdshot suck, because while I can appreciate a metal deathtrap, a metal deathtrap where I can't find literally anything just sucks to play on.

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:28 am

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:41 am You're thinking of Birdboat, which is a completely different map to Birdshot. Birdshot is merely inspired by Birdboat.

Birdshot is a renovated version of Birdboat, it shares an extremely similar layout to the point where I just consider it an updated version of the map. This layout inheritance is also what absolutely makes Birdshot suck, because while I can appreciate a metal deathtrap, a metal deathtrap where I can't find literally anything just sucks to play on.

I do not think that is true at all, and looking at either map side by side will tell you that immediately. The map is almost four times the size of birdboat, and has almost none of the features of the first map remaining. Some loosely inspired parts, but not complete copies. It has the more modern mapping considerations and improvements for aesthetic.

The general location of the departments are somewhat faithful in most cases, but there is so much more in between and across the station as a whole, and the layout of those departments in of themselves, you can't really call them the same map whatsoever. You could not find anything on Birdshot by attempting to use Birdboat as a reference, as an example.

Birdboat's map

Birdshot's map

New bad old good, bring back Kilo, no, scratch that, bring back Pubby, no, scratch that, bring back [ad infinitum].

For real though, I miss Pubby.