/tg/Station 13

thread title. a lot of resprites were unneeded, unwanted and are just plain ugly. please allow any PR for sprite to auto generate a poll and let the community decide. yes I'm coping

whats the latest cope

really dont like the cargo uniform resprite

Why not put this in like code feedback or something

Honestly in my opinion there is a clear degradation in a lot of sprite quality going on currently because someone doesn't seem to understand that clarity of what it shows is more important than trying to ram every little detail into a sprite.

This will never happen

In my opinion sprites have gotten better, look at the id card resprite, toolbelt resprite and sodacans resprite

Wouldn't this just drag development to a standstill and have a large number of resprites just get dragged through the dirt with even more player outrage when spritetainers (who are trying to make a more uniform style for TG) merge things they want regardless because the community doesn't know what they actually want.

No, mald

Cheshify wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 4:41 pm Wouldn't this just drag development to a standstill and have a large number of resprites just get dragged through the dirt with even more player outrage when spritetainers (who are trying to make a more uniform style for TG) merge things they want regardless because the community doesn't know what they actually want.

The community doesn't know what they want? There have been several PR's with sprites that had a near unanimous reaction from the community.

just pay a spriter you like to do it better than the current sprites

the new ids look like someone puked a birthday party all over them
like why are there so many people at this party, i dont even know all these people

i appreciate the work coders do but god damn chill on the wing dings and ding dongs a bit

Un-needed un-wanted and just plain ugly pretty much sums up half of ss13 content though.

players should unionize against the coder cabal just like the minecraft community but kinda because of the reverse reasoning

I just don't like the cargo resprites. The old uniforms were much better in terms of what they were (space amazon, not security guards)

we're all autistic and accepting change is impossible it's why the project is structured this way

there are still mfs who think intents are better than combat mode and we should not respect or accept their opinions

I just want them to explain themselves more clearly and not breakdown into tears running to their hugbox the moment the "white names" disagree.
It would also help dispel the myth of how coders don't care what players think if spriters ever got told no that wasn't just them being told to do some revisions and have it merged once the heat dies down.
Also bring back mosins I'm still pissed off about that.

taylor swift fans union

nothing in the codebase is permanent, the new sprites you dont like will be replaced by different ones eventually

kinnebian wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:02 pm taylor swift fans union

You mean just a bunch of Marxists?

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:04 pm nothing in the codebase is permanent, the new sprites you dont like will be replaced by different ones eventually

When you code it

I like the ID card change. When I look at the cap ID now I feel so powerful idk why it's so glorious. It looks nice and 3D and official. It also makes way more sense, it has a little connector at the bottom for your PDA! Big fan of the changes yes.

Boot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:35 pm I just want them to explain themselves more clearly and not breakdown into tears running to their hugbox the moment the "white names" disagree.
It would also help dispel the myth of how coders don't care what players think if spriters ever got told no that wasn't just them being told to do some revisions and have it merged once the heat dies down.
Also bring back mosins I'm still pissed off about that.

I will note here, that spriters are often told to make revisions, either in the pr or on discord, the mosin pr went through several revisions, so did the cargo one, so did the ID one, so does nearly every single sprite pr.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:07 pm

Boot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:35 pm I just want them to explain themselves more clearly and not breakdown into tears running to their hugbox the moment the "white names" disagree.
It would also help dispel the myth of how coders don't care what players think if spriters ever got told no that wasn't just them being told to do some revisions and have it merged once the heat dies down.
Also bring back mosins I'm still pissed off about that.

I will note here, that spriters are often told to make revisions, either in the pr or on discord, the mosin pr went through several revisions, so did the cargo one, so did the ID one, so does nearly every single sprite pr.

What's the point of revisions if they ignore the actual major points anyway?

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:07 pm

Boot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:35 pm I just want them to explain themselves more clearly and not breakdown into tears running to their hugbox the moment the "white names" disagree.
It would also help dispel the myth of how coders don't care what players think if spriters ever got told no that wasn't just them being told to do some revisions and have it merged once the heat dies down.
Also bring back mosins I'm still pissed off about that.

I will note here, that spriters are often told to make revisions, either in the pr or on discord, the mosin pr went through several revisions, so did the cargo one, so did the ID one, so does nearly every single sprite pr.

I understand that and didn't mean to imply that they post their first draft or something. More so that it seems pretty rare to see a spriter get told no and if there is any heat to just go for "revisions"(wink wink) until the heat dies down. However the process of them getting turned down might happen a lot more in spriter club so the only ones that I see are the ones already vetted.

Boot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:30 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:07 pm

Boot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:35 pm I just want them to explain themselves more clearly and not breakdown into tears running to their hugbox the moment the "white names" disagree.
It would also help dispel the myth of how coders don't care what players think if spriters ever got told no that wasn't just them being told to do some revisions and have it merged once the heat dies down.
Also bring back mosins I'm still pissed off about that.

I will note here, that spriters are often told to make revisions, either in the pr or on discord, the mosin pr went through several revisions, so did the cargo one, so did the ID one, so does nearly every single sprite pr.

I understand that and didn't mean to imply that they post their first draft or something. More so that it seems pretty rare to see a spriter get told no and if there is any heat to just go for "revisions"(wink wink) until the heat dies down. However the process of them getting turned down might happen a lot more in spriter club so the only ones that I see are the ones already vetted.

If you mean something like closing and then opening the pr, its because its just stupid. Most code prs also go through a lot of revisions whilst the pr is open (reviews and all that jazz)

CPTANT wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:47 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:07 pm

Boot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:35 pm I just want them to explain themselves more clearly and not breakdown into tears running to their hugbox the moment the "white names" disagree.
It would also help dispel the myth of how coders don't care what players think if spriters ever got told no that wasn't just them being told to do some revisions and have it merged once the heat dies down.
Also bring back mosins I'm still pissed off about that.

I will note here, that spriters are often told to make revisions, either in the pr or on discord, the mosin pr went through several revisions, so did the cargo one, so did the ID one, so does nearly every single sprite pr.

What's the point of revisions if they ignore the actual major points anyway?

They would revise it if a maintainer told them to, like again most prs. Sprite feedback is usually non-constructive and the stuff that is can be ignored if the pr creator feels like it clashes with their design vision. Forcing people to abide by feedback isnt something that is done and since the codebase is open source everyone can just directly apply their feedback if it hasnt been used for a revision.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:00 pm
They would revise it if a maintainer told them to, like again most prs. Sprite feedback is usually non-constructive and the stuff that is can be ignored if the pr creator feels like it clashes with their design vision. Forcing people to abide by feedback isnt something that is done and since the codebase is open source everyone can just directly apply their feedback if it hasnt been used for a revision.

Meh, that's just diminutive of everyone's feedback. If we once again take the Mosin PR there were plenty of people explaining why the resprite was a bad idea.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:08 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:00 pm
They would revise it if a maintainer told them to, like again most prs. Sprite feedback is usually non-constructive and the stuff that is can be ignored if the pr creator feels like it clashes with their design vision. Forcing people to abide by feedback isnt something that is done and since the codebase is open source everyone can just directly apply their feedback if it hasnt been used for a revision.

Meh, that's just diminutive of everyone's feedback. If we once again take the Mosin PR there were plenty of people explaining why the resprite was a bad idea.

Clearly the pr creator didnt agree, and neither did the maintainers. Personally I would’ve liked them to change the russian crate to something else since its a new gun.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:55 pm

Boot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:30 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:07 pm

Boot wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:35 pm I just want them to explain themselves more clearly and not breakdown into tears running to their hugbox the moment the "white names" disagree.
It would also help dispel the myth of how coders don't care what players think if spriters ever got told no that wasn't just them being told to do some revisions and have it merged once the heat dies down.
Also bring back mosins I'm still pissed off about that.

I will note here, that spriters are often told to make revisions, either in the pr or on discord, the mosin pr went through several revisions, so did the cargo one, so did the ID one, so does nearly every single sprite pr.

I understand that and didn't mean to imply that they post their first draft or something. More so that it seems pretty rare to see a spriter get told no and if there is any heat to just go for "revisions"(wink wink) until the heat dies down. However the process of them getting turned down might happen a lot more in spriter club so the only ones that I see are the ones already vetted.

If you mean something like closing and then opening the pr, its because its just stupid. Most code prs also go through a lot of revisions whilst the pr is open (reviews and all that jazz)

That's kinda my point. If you want something changed sprite-wise odds are it's gonna get slammed on through regardless of what the players say. Most people arn't going to see the talks that happen in spriteclub but they will see the pr.

the new new new new new id sprites look kinda bad and weird, but nobody ever sees ID sprites except at the HOPline because they spend all round in PDAs anyway so its a sprite thats literally not worth arguing over.

at least the new emag looks cool so i guess it makes up for all the other cards looking like chonky blocks now

CPTANT wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:08 pm Meh, that's just diminutive of everyone's feedback. If we once again take the Mosin PR there were plenty of people explaining why the resprite was a bad idea.

Your feedback is important in so far as it convinces the maintainers of something. If it doesn't do that, then we do not care.
The codebase is not a democracy. We value feedback as an opportunity to gain differing viewpoints and cover things we don't have full knowledge on, but you are not owed control over the project.
Again, feedback is only important because it provides insight that convinces. We do be an autocracy. This goes for every pr, it's just sprite prs have a LOT of people who have opinions, because it's very easy to have an opinion about art.

We have spritetainers because we want a (more) consistent artistic direction then "lemon the backend guy thought the drone sprites were funny". Art It is subjective, and it is their subjective opinion that is important.
You can try and change that opinion, but players as a mass are not owed control over it. You'll get over it when sec is made pink in 2 months, and then blue in 3, I promise.

Pink sec 2023 real?

Your opinion is important unless we don't care
(I'm playing devils advocate, I learned to trust our coders)

the new id cards look like chocolate bars and i want to eat them

The thing about feedback is that if people give it, it is read and understood, and no change is made as a result then people go "well that was pointless" even if in other circumstances it could have come up with a change. Feedback provides an opportunity for things to be different but not a guarantee, it's an attempt at persuasion and nothing more.
An issue which comes up specifically with sprite PRs is that often that feedback is "I disagree with the core concept of your idea". When the only compromise between the positions is "don't do the thing you want to do" then your feedback can only be acted upon by not doing it. As the person making the change obviously believes the change is a good idea, this is unlikely to end up with a result which satisfies the person who does not like it.

Crates are still horrible, I know maintainers can't be trusted simple because they allowed that resprite to go through. Especially since there were some clique suspicions.
But I also know there is nothing I can do about it.

Voting for resprites is a bad idea but at the same time I feel like it wouldn't hurt if spritetainers could ask someone to make their resprite look a little less... different than everything else in the game. Cargo looked fucking awful after the resprite but now they just look bad and too tacticool because someone made the original sprite author's work fit more in line with current TG sprites. Oh, and they also had to make coats, berets, etc. brown because the original sprite author couldn't be assed to do that, but it got merged regardless. A sprite can look okay on its own but just not work on TG due to the zoomed-out nature of SS13 or how each server has a slightly different artstyle (compare TG to goonstation, or TG to Skyrat for instance)

We already have this for codetainers asking someone to redo code to perform better or to follow newer coding standards. I get that sprites are way more subjective than code because there is a way to make code better, but at the same time it comes across like there are absolutely no standards for sprite PRs.

The new IDs look neat and I love the little thing that you'd use to pull your ID out of a PDA but at the same time, some of the ID sprites are way too bright compared to everything else.

I swear to God, if I have to explain that TG does have an artstyle even if it doesn't have an art style guide, I am going to be very disappointed.

multiple people made crate improvement PRs and pretty much the only reason they weren't merged is that none of those people actually finished them

This topic:


Making the coders subject to player/admin opinions is how you lose your coding team. See: Baystation

It is well-known in the indie scene that the coder follows their own interest and can only be swayed by money.

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:46 am This topic:


Making the coders subject to player/admin opinions is how you lose your coding team. See: Baystation

It is well-known in the indie scene that the coder follows their own interest and can only be swayed by money.

Sides taken off and in orbit.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 6:11 pm I swear to God, if I have to explain that TG does have an artstyle even if it doesn't have an art style guide, I am going to be very disappointed.

the fact everything looked a certain way when you started playing the game does not mean tgstation has an artstyle.

If we were to follow your argument to it's logical endpoint, the game would look as it did in the 2000's

The only thing you're seeing is that there were like two to three spriters maximum before 2016/2017, so everything looked reasonably consistent because it was made by the same person.

You see Orange is free of this bias because he's never actually played the game before so he can't be nostalgic.

The difference is that the sprites i'm nostalgic about look like fucking dog shit and i'm mature enough to recognise that and not try to hold up new sprites because I personally dont like how they look.

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:46 am This topic:


Making the coders subject to player/admin opinions is how you lose your coding team. See: Baystation

It is well-known in the indie scene that the coder follows their own interest and can only be swayed by money.

Oh yeah? I'm not buying tgstation anymore then

oranges wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2023 2:53 am

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 6:11 pm I swear to God, if I have to explain that TG does have an artstyle even if it doesn't have an art style guide, I am going to be very disappointed.

the fact everything looked a certain way when you started playing the game does not mean tgstation has an artstyle.

If we were to follow your argument to it's logical endpoint, the game would look as it did in the 2000's

The only thing you're seeing is that there were like two to three spriters maximum before 2016/2017, so everything looked reasonably consistent because it was made by the same person.

no way dude 20 year old programmer art is totally the best look for the game

Lol what is that armor vest holy shit.

Edit: OH WAIT THAT IS A BACKPACK

programmer art is the best kind of art