/tg/Station 13

Title. This term is probably the one where it finally happens but what are your thoughts on this topic? Do YOU support nonhuman heads of staff? Why??

It would be cool to have the option. It would create an interesting dynamic with the silicons for the acting captain to be nonhuman.

100% no and if it does get slammed through I'll start rolling human just to law 2 annoy them. QM shouldn't be a head either infact just remove nonhuman from being secoffs too.

no. i'm still in utter disbelief that QM became a head.

NT is an apathetic, cold and cruel organization. they don't respect non-human rights and it adds an interesting element to playing a non-human.

i personally don't like overt thinly veiled racism masquerading as "speciesism" because it's low effort but i think there is a lot of compelling depth to the asymmetric nature of humans having more rights and privileges than non-humans in a science fiction setting.

also, we'd have to make asimov give the same protections to non-humans unless the AI just decides to bolt and kill the lizard captain the moment they try to stop a human antag

it just feels like it would be sanding the sharp edges off the setting and will make it a lot less compelling in that regard. and i say this as someone who only plays a non-human static so i don't benefit from any of this.

Nahh, they won't do it. It goes against the ss13 society too hard

i dont have a strong opinion either way but ive seen people suggest stuff like "ce should be open to plasmamen specifically because that would be something nt would do for the sake of convenience" and im more open to that idea of very selective nonhuman heads

get someone to write a lore dissertation on how moth society revolutionized healthcare by nibbling all the sutures and let moths be cmo or something idk

Yesterday due to acting captains and promotions we had a lizard captain, moth CE, cat CMO, and a moth RD.
Then a human captain joined and there was a power struggle but we had to leave due to a bad power sink before anything could come of it.

No

non human CE and CMO would be cool add it please

Yes, non-human heads would be cool and just give people more options to customize their characters. I don't think there would be any issue with either asimov being expanded to include non-humans or crewsimov being the default. But I also think it would be fine for asimov to stay the way it is and still have non-human command. If you decide to play non-human command in that case you would just be accepting the risk of the AI fucking with/killing you, which is already how it works for QMs and non-human security, or really any non-human crew.

Asimov is soul and I think it's really cool that isaac asimov's sci-fi writings have become a part of this game, but humans don't NEED special asimov protections/command benefits imo, they're already pretty much the "best" race simply by virtue of not having any major downsides. I'd still like to see some kind of version of asimov as the default lawset though.

NT's human supremacy is one of the few lore threads we can actually use

keep heads pure

It's ALWAYS correct to arrest the qm for "trespassing" into bridge because he's not a real head. Having human supremacy is unique and awesome.

No. There are servers that cater to that experience. We are not one of them, nor should we ever be. Doubt the headmins would consider it.

Absolutely not. No geckos, no space pussy, no bungus, no lamps. Only humans.

You start with the fleshless and the animals and the lamps and next you're asking if it's ok for AI to be command.

I'm actually more okay with AI being command than Lizards. Has anyone done a captain AI round?

I'm 50/50 either way honestly. I think it would be neat but I also realize that it would throw out interesting roleplay potential.

Granted, 95% of the time the only speciesism I see is just "I hate liggers" tier stuff though.

If it ever were to go through I'd probably just say "Oh, neat" and carry on. I guess that's because I play as a human and I don't like command roles so I'm as far away from having any stakes in this as I can be while still playing SS13.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:52 am I'm 50/50 either way honestly. I think it would be neat but I also realize that it would throw out interesting roleplay potential.

Granted, 95% of the time the only speciesism I see is just "I hate liggers" tier stuff though.

I need to play Manuel more, then.

conrad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:55 am

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:52 am I'm 50/50 either way honestly. I think it would be neat but I also realize that it would throw out interesting roleplay potential.

Granted, 95% of the time the only speciesism I see is just "I hate liggers" tier stuff though.

I need to play Manuel more, then.

We occasionally have people who make it their sole personality trait to be speciesist but it usually gets beat out of them for lack of a better word. (often quite literally)

The highlight by far was when a cargo tech kept rambling on about lizards using the word ligger and whatnot and suddenly three lizards came barging in, one stunprods the guy, the other ties him up with zipties, then they took turns head-bashing him into a table I set up by the cargo bay cargo console where I put the stamps and a folder for the reqi forms. They did it for a solid 45 seconds, but to be fair the guy was being annoying.

warbluke wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:48 am I'm actually more okay with AI being command than Lizards. Has anyone done a captain AI round?

I was once promoted to captain as AI by the prior captain who was going AFK. I sat in a meeting (as a hologram) with the HoP, as my assistant, and the QM, who wanted Cargonia as an independent state. We came to the agreement that Cargonia would return, or pay for, any equipment that they had obtained from the rest of the station, and that a wall with a border checkpoint would be constructed. Unfortunately, before we could set up the border, a Lone Ops spawned and silently activated the nuke.

Imagine making an opinion thread with a poll. Also No.

Let people play how they wanna play

naw, keeps some flavor.

nobody needs captain xemo.

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:35 am naw, keeps some flavor.

nobody needs captain xemo.

Counterpoint

You did this once and it ruled

I think it'd be interesting to see non-human, non-captain heads of staff (possibly limited by department), but to keep on Asimov as the default. Yes, this means non-human command don't enjoy AI protections unless someone starts getting wacky with the lawsets, but that's part of the fun of it, isn't it? NT strikes me as a company that would gleefully talk up how progressive they're being while leaving every possible microaggression intact to remind the rank and file who's really in charge. This allows for people to roleplay characters in positions of authority while still being subject to bureaucratic pains in the ass. CentComm would no doubt be extremely passive-aggressive (or active-aggressive) about it if they think one of the charity hires is getting too mouthy, you know?

I'll note that I mostly run non-human characters who don't run departments, and I don't think I've ever formally invoked a law unless saying "please" over comms counts, so YMMV.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 2:57 am We occasionally have people who make it their sole personality trait to be speciesist but it usually gets beat out of them for lack of a better word. (often quite literally)

Oh yeah that's me. I get beaten up, tied up and displayed for all too see. Love the attention. Never used ligger though. It's lazy, uncouth and now gets you valided. Much better to just call them silly lil' names and spray paint their face.

Having non human heads of staff might mean I will not get CE every round.
Actually that's a good thing. I think it's sometimes nice to be shoved into another role instead. A lot of non human engis/Atmos techs in Manuel are pretty good at it, and deserve to be CE.

As long as there are still lots of humans around.

challenging an unfair and prejudiced culture is part of the roleplay opportunities and rounds where people accept and elevate non-humans to command roles through IC promotions is part of what would be lost if we smoothed it all out

NO XENOS IN MY COMMAND ROLES.

Timonk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 10:42 am NO XENOS IN MY COMMAND ROLES.

I don't hate it (especially the concept of it not being a blanket acceptance but something like "Plasmamen can be CE but nothing else") but also I don't care enough to push for it against entrenched culture.

Oranges already said ages ago that he'd approve it when I suggested it as a station trait as long as the chance of it rolling was low enough. Any coder can already make this a thing and there is nothing anyone can do to stop this.

I think the only thing it would change is allowing competent players who don't play human to take head roles and having more varied rounds rather than the same four people taking the role. The people clutching their pearls and crying "wahh m-my l-lore" can just handle it IC the same way some people still bully the QM for pretending to be a head.

We need more command players

dendydoom wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:44 pm no. i'm still in utter disbelief that QM became a head.

NT is an apathetic, cold and cruel organization. they don't respect non-human rights and it adds an interesting element to playing a non-human.

i personally don't like overt thinly veiled racism masquerading as "speciesism" because it's low effort but i think there is a lot of compelling depth to the asymmetric nature of humans having more rights and privileges than non-humans in a science fiction setting.

you say this but I swear you've used a non-humans as a centcom commander at least a few times

Bmon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:07 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:44 pm no. i'm still in utter disbelief that QM became a head.

NT is an apathetic, cold and cruel organization. they don't respect non-human rights and it adds an interesting element to playing a non-human.

i personally don't like overt thinly veiled racism masquerading as "speciesism" because it's low effort but i think there is a lot of compelling depth to the asymmetric nature of humans having more rights and privileges than non-humans in a science fiction setting.

you say this but I swear you've used a non-humans as a centcom commander at least a few times

ye this is an oversight on my part cus i'm using my default static when i observe. i should really make a human character for adminning rounds but it never crosses my mind in the moment to do so and when i need to drop in as a commander to do something it's usually on a time crunch.

basically i'm breaking the lore, being a hypocrite and i deserve to be destroyed

I'm very torn on this.

Cons:
NT is apathetic to life and doesn't care about people or rights, only profit margins.
It makes nonhumans more unique and builds RP where they can have non-violent conflict with command.
It would be weird with jobs that have technical access to the AI Upload not being allowed to law 2 the AI.
Many believe it's part of ss13's soul.

Pros:
NT is so apathetic that it makes me doubt if they would care about "species superiority" on the frontier.
We have more people willing to play command staff.
Nonhuman heads conflicting with the AI would be good for keeping the AI as a third party faction.
I've seen just as many servers with nonhuman heads.

Yeah I still can't decide.

No. Play Warden or QM.

No... Also get rid of felinids.

Pepper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:31 pm No. Play Warden or QM.

telling people how to play in a roleplay game

Noo u dont understand my oc donut cant be held down by the confines of the setting they're too quirky and crap u dont understand
dont u dare tell people how to roleplay u bastaard

Yes and no. Imo something like plasmaman Ce would make sense but I’m still not sure about it.

Capsandi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:58 pm Noo u dont understand my oc donut cant be held down by the confines of the setting they're too quirky and crap u dont understand
dont u dare tell people how to roleplay u bastaard

mega bait...

warbluke wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:22 pm Yesterday due to acting captains and promotions we had a lizard captain, moth CE, cat CMO, and a moth RD.
Then a human captain joined and there was a power struggle but we had to leave due to a bad power sink before anything could come of it.

And it was super cool BECAUSE that's not the default.

EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:09 pm

Capsandi wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 3:58 pm Noo u dont understand my oc donut cant be held down by the confines of the setting they're too quirky and crap u dont understand
dont u dare tell people how to roleplay u bastaard

mega bait...

It's only bait if you bite it.

im very torn on this:

pros:
-
-
-


cons:
- fucking nonhumans

Limitation breeds creativity

Timonk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:28 pm im very torn on this:

pros:
-
-
-


cons:
- fucking nonhumans

Banned for ERP

No. I want my Asimov to stay, and if we get non-human heads we will get some people bitching about how we should on crewsimov more then they already do.

No, asimov and it's more interesting when they actually do become a head through other means.

Nabski wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 4:35 pm And it was super cool BECAUSE that's not the default.

People commented on it and went "Hey that's weird" but other than that nothing really came of it. Maybe something cool would have happened if not for the aforementioned power sink and resulting delam.

On Bagil at least it feels like we have nonhuman captains more often than human since the pool of head players is already tiny, and acting captains are the norm most shifts anyway.

non-human HOS sounds like the worst idea, its bad enough when the warden and officers are nonhumans so the AI completely ignores them.