/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:16 am**

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35092

Lorwp at it again with another similar ban in which two non antags have a fight! This time in Sybil.

I am sad to hear that a player quit because of NRP behaviour. Does the appealant realise the real reason they got the day ban?

It is very annoying to get shoved by a person onto a table FNR by the way. You end up having to defend yourself and it ends up ruining a chunk of your round because the conflict usually ends in somebody going to medbay.

But its sybil so... *shrug*

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:33 am**

i've heard lrp players say that a "stun is a kill" because you're completely helpless and can get cuffed/killed easily so it's a big deal yet others will also argue that it's not a big deal and shovefights where you table someone or shovespam them into a wall is just goofin. genuine question: which is it? on mrp shove fights happen all the time and often don't escalate beyond that.

also, in total honesty, i often view slurs and very intense insults as fighting words that can instigate a valid conflict (when it's not some rule 11 shit). but this is a lot different when someone is speaking out of frustration because someone attacked them first.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:48 am**

dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:33 am i've heard lrp players say that a "stun is a kill" because you're completely helpless and can get cuffed/killed easily so it's a big deal yet others will also argue that it's not a big deal and shovefights where you table someone or shovespam them into a wall is just goofin. genuine question: which is it? on mrp shove fights happen all the time and often don't escalate beyond that.

When people say a stun is a kill they mostly mean stun batons i think, and thats partly because a stun baton gives you a lot of leeway with reapplication

In my experience a tableslam is a quick way to fast escalation since it can be chained and cause serious injuries, but shoving into walls and whatnot isnt since it doesnt incapacitate you as long or leave you as vulnerable, and its harder to pull off anyways- if someone was serious about killing you theyd probably use some other easier method

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:55 am**

on the topic of the ban itself
I do not like nrp behavior and i hope admins continue to ban or note for it
but I also do not like notes changing the meat of their entire substance right after an appeal is made
I dont think lowrp is like a shitmin trying to find any reason to ban this guy, i just think they need to be more careful and deliberate a lot more with their ban reasons in the future.... ... .. editing a note in response to an appeal is understandable but this was a very drastic difference

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:54 am**

dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:33 am i've heard lrp players say that a "stun is a kill" because you're completely helpless and can get cuffed/killed easily so it's a big deal yet others will also argue that it's not a big deal and shovefights where you table someone or shovespam them into a wall is just goofin. genuine question: which is it? on mrp shove fights happen all the time and often don't escalate beyond that.

“stun is a kill” applies generally when someone wins a fight with a stun weapon, but tabling and wall shoving arent as big deals because unless they are part of the minority that can pull off the shovestuncuff (or crowbar a firelock on you), you are probably just being hassled

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 4:21 am**

What is this

Code: Select all

[2023-10-10 03:58:13.517] ATTACK: Xlink97/(Jeremy Thompson) attacked Jay-Zero/(Fig Newton) with Gwyn's premium absinthe (NEWHP: 53.4)  (Cargo Bay (171,163,2))
[2023-10-10 03:58:14.972] ATTACK: Xlink97/(Jeremy Thompson) attacked Jay-Zero/(Fig Newton) with broken Gwyn's premium absinthe (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 46.6)  (Cargo Bay (170,162,2))

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:06 am**

I don't get the whole "I am going to randomly shove-spam you" thing.

While you are repeatedly shoving me into a wall, I cannot do my job and you are probably not going to just stop because I tried to walk away, so you are excessively preventing me from doing my job.

Utterly irrelevant anyway because doing so to a random without any reason for it is NRP, but I've just Never Understood It.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:40 am**

So the issue with shove-fighting is that one of three things happens:

1) Both parties consent to the fight and it's NRP and disruptive because you wouldn't randomly go around shoving some person in the hallway even if we suspend disbelief to a large margin
2) One party doesn't consent and it's a rule 1 issue
3) Both parties consent but the fight spills over into disrupting other peoples' rounds and it turns into a Family Guy Chicken moment which we've banned for in the past because it's stupid

Either way, it's a bad time for someone.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:40 am**

I'd like to point out that the whole "a stun is a kill" thing is something even maintainers recognize as being true. That's why the contractor baton costs 12 TC, despite not being substantially different from a normal telebaton.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:52 am**

Never thought I'd see the day where Manuelmins would come to lrp to outlaw shove fights. Mrp was a mistake.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:42 am**

"As a Non-Antag QM, harassed one of their cargo techs into escalating a conflict with them, until said cargo tech called them a slur and gave them an excuse to kill them"

What??? So it's homies fault he got called a slur???? What brainrot logic is this.

So if I start shoving someone and they call me a slur it's my fault and I'm waiting for an excuse???

At least it got changed but

Don't call me slurs and u won't die it's shrimple really...they also make you 1000% valid so the moment he drops it bye bye...

Also, I dunno man...shoving is fine. His chat logs are OK??

Saying laughing out loud is also FULLY allowed.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=34938

Also we're combing through his logs to say he isn't good enough at rp......yikes

Overall this feels like they placed the og ban for the wrong reasons, then dug around a bit, and then changed the note to the right reasons.

This was sometimes controversial but I believe if you're banning people for the wrong reasons then having to giga change it in the ban appeal after digging it shouldn't be a ban/note. Feels like we're playing darts here.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:06 pm**

thanks to the bad mfs who clarified for me

i tend to view shovefights as fine, i actually like seeing people have normal shove/fist fights because it's much better than someone being minorly slighted then whipping out the saw that they printed roundstart, it is a much more sane way to have a conflict over things like insults or people fucking with you when you're playing a character who wouldn't stand for that shit. i bop people in the snout when they test my character's patience and i usually get my ass beat for it, but that's my character.

but i also think heads should do better than torment their subordinates for no other reason than "funni" it's lame and annoying. you can very easily change my mind on this by revoking QM's head status... >:)

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:21 pm**

dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:33 am i've heard lrp players say that a "stun is a kill" because you're completely helpless and can get cuffed/killed easily so it's a big deal yet others will also argue that it's not a big deal and shovefights where you table someone or shovespam them into a wall is just goofin. genuine question: which is it? [...]

Some people have gotten pretty good at shovestunning someone in a way that gives them just enough time to cuff someone. Once you're cuffed you'll be at their mercy unless somebody manages to intervene. When the intent of the other isn't immediately obvious you'll only know if they were just goofing around or not by the time they've already had an opportunity to catch you. The person doing the shoving will already know their own intentions beforehand though.

I doubt that loads of people can reliably pull it off, and maybe there are ways to escape just before it happens. But when it happens it's fast and unexpected, which can make people pretty jumpy about it.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:23 pm**

kieth4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:42 am "As a Non-Antag QM, harassed one of their cargo techs into escalating a conflict with them, until said cargo tech called them a slur and gave them an excuse to kill them"

What??? So it's homies fault he got called a slur???? What brainrot logic is this.

So if I start shoving someone and they call me a slur it's my fault and I'm waiting for an excuse???

At least it got changed but

Don't call me slurs and u won't die it's shrimple really...they also make you 1000% valid so the moment he drops it bye bye...

Also, I dunno man...shoving is fine. His chat logs are OK??

Saying laughing out loud is also FULLY allowed.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=34938

Also we're combing through his logs to say he isn't good enough at rp......yikes

Overall this feels like they placed the og ban for the wrong reasons, then dug around a bit, and then changed the note to the right reasons.

This was sometimes controversial but I believe if you're banning people for the wrong reasons then having to giga change it in the ban appeal after digging it shouldn't be a ban/note. Feels like we're playing darts here.

allow the trialmin fam they need to figure out the process not every call is gonna be a perfectly reasoned W they got the vibes right but they're still learning how to put it into words properly

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:14 pm**

so true dendy I think all trialmins are stupid too

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:56 pm**

dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:23 pm
kieth4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:42 am "As a Non-Antag QM, harassed one of their cargo techs into escalating a conflict with them, until said cargo tech called them a slur and gave them an excuse to kill them"

What??? So it's homies fault he got called a slur???? What brainrot logic is this.

So if I start shoving someone and they call me a slur it's my fault and I'm waiting for an excuse???

At least it got changed but

Don't call me slurs and u won't die it's shrimple really...they also make you 1000% valid so the moment he drops it bye bye...

Also, I dunno man...shoving is fine. His chat logs are OK??

Saying laughing out loud is also FULLY allowed.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=34938

Also we're combing through his logs to say he isn't good enough at rp......yikes

Overall this feels like they placed the og ban for the wrong reasons, then dug around a bit, and then changed the note to the right reasons.

This was sometimes controversial but I believe if you're banning people for the wrong reasons then having to giga change it in the ban appeal after digging it shouldn't be a ban/note. Feels like we're playing darts here.
allow the trialmin fam they need to figure out the process not every call is gonna be a perfectly reasoned W they got the vibes right but they're still learning how to put it into words properly

I get you but this is a peanut and this is my god given right to call out behaviour I view as undesirable. You can chit chat in bus or w/e but all I have are these peanuts

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 2:08 pm**

Striders13 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:14 pm so true dendy I think all trialmins are stupid too

i can't believe *puts words in dendy's mouth* that dendy called every trialmin a slur. we should deadmin her she's out of control...

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 2:38 pm**

I think players should be required to play on a different server every 12 hours so they don't get used to a sedentary style

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:14 pm**

kieth4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 1:56 pm
dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:23 pm
kieth4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:42 am snip
shut up trialmin
1984

No one is denying that right you dork.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:38 pm**

A thing I noticed is that while Fig didn't immediately escalate to lethals over it, Jeremy did in fact brain him with a bottle of wine and then stabbed him with the broken bottle.

It's easily missed, but at that point, Fig had the right to escalate to lethals because Jeremy had now actually harmed him, he just apparently didn't until more shoving happened.

Code: Select all

[2023-10-10 03:58:13.517] ATTACK: Xlink97/(Jeremy Thompson) attacked Jay-Zero/(Fig Newton) with Gwyn's premium absinthe (NEWHP: 53.4)  (Cargo Bay (171,163,2))
[2023-10-10 03:58:14.972] ATTACK: Xlink97/(Jeremy Thompson) attacked Jay-Zero/(Fig Newton) with broken Gwyn's premium absinthe (COMBAT MODE: 1) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: 46.6)  (Cargo Bay (170,162,2))

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 5:14 pm**

a head of staff is there to direct his department and to set an example for them-- this applies to lrp just as much as mrp

if you can't handle not being a shitter, you shouldnt be a head of staff

those say logs lmao holy shit

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 6:23 pm**

threatening rule 1 ban for shoving on sybil lmao

is this what it's come to?

edit: just saw the other note this dude gave for "bad escalation"

lmao

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 6:29 pm**

1) Both parties consent to the fight and it's NRP and disruptive because you wouldn't randomly go around shoving some person in the hallway even if we suspend disbelief to a large margin

Citation needed
It might be juvenile and silly and stupid but people do in fact randomly hip check/shove/bump into others, and in my own friend group irl we'd randomly jokingly start bumping into each other and escalate to light punches for gits and shiggles
Besides that, ss13 is a cartoon world with zany logic. death and violence are cheap, and frankly it ruins my suspension of disbelief more when death or maimings are treated as more serious than they really are.
IN THIS INSTANCE it was very nrp. in a lot of instances besides this one too. But I think its a mistake to equate a lack of realism to a lack of roleplay inherently. The game loses a lot of charm that way.

3) Both parties consent but the fight spills over into disrupting other peoples' rounds and it turns into a Family Guy Chicken moment which we've banned for in the past because it's stupid

Wasnt that ban because it became excessive and happened nearly every other round, on top of other issues with the player in question? I might be remembering wrong

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:53 pm**

Players that use our servers to battle royale their friends every shift and players that get into FNR fights with their buddies that spill over into other departments/impact other players are two completely overlapping circles on the Venn Diagram of Shittery.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 8:09 pm**

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:53 pm Players that use our servers to battle royale their friends every shift and players that get into FNR fights with their buddies that spill over into other departments/impact other players are two completely overlapping circles on the Venn Diagram of Shittery.

Good thing that isn't what happened here.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:34 pm**

I'm sorry, I was commenting on Cyan's reference to Vekter's third point.

I understand how confusing it may have been to finish reading Cyan's last sentence referencing family guy chicken fights and immediately see my comment also mentioning that very same concept but without quoting it in a 3-deep comment chain. But don't worry, I asked around and have received assurances it's a reader skill issue.

I hope that with this additional context, you can rest better at night.

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 9:55 pm**

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:53 pm Players that use our servers to battle royale their friends every shift and players that get into FNR fights with their buddies that spill over into other departments/impact other players are two completely overlapping circles on the Venn Diagram of Shittery.

We have absolutely no disagreement on this point

Posted: **Thu Oct 12, 2023 10:42 pm**

If the impact from a shove is strong enough to stun you or make you unable to get back up and stand for several seconds how does it not batter and bruise you.

Imagine how much tiding would get curbed if some silly coder made it so shoves did damage so admins could bonk people for stunning eachother....

Like what happened to reider when he used a firelock to stun someone but then an admin went "akchually you did damage" and punished him.

But at the end of the day, do we even wanna go in that direction.

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:04 am**

shove stuns are just something i threw in at the last minute to appease nervere when removing slip stuns.

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:14 am**

extremely cringe that the banning admin is retroactively witchhunting this guy's say logs from months ago to justify his flimsy ban

dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:23 pm allow the trialmin fam they need to figure out the process not every call is gonna be a perfectly reasoned W they got the vibes right but they're still learning how to put it into words properly

it's the admin team's job to train trialmins, not the players

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2023 3:12 am**

Pepper wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:14 am extremely cringe that the banning admin is retroactively witchhunting this guy's say logs from months ago to justify his flimsy ban

dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:23 pm allow the trialmin fam they need to figure out the process not every call is gonna be a perfectly reasoned W they got the vibes right but they're still learning how to put it into words properly
it's the admin team's job to train trialmins, not the players

actually-

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2023 4:55 am**

Pepper wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 2:14 am
dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:23 pm allow the trialmin fam they need to figure out the process not every call is gonna be a perfectly reasoned W they got the vibes right but they're still learning how to put it into words properly
it's the admin team's job to train trialmins, not the players

i think it's a mistake to have this attitude cus player feedback is extremely important when you're learning these things, admins are adminpilled and have a very different way of looking at things so getting advice from them is only one side of the story, it's important to remember how players think and what player expectations are and we need them to be able to communicate these things for us to learn from them

kieth was always very understanding and player focused as a headmin so his input in this regard was always invaluable, now that the INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower has one less very loud player voice in it every day those discussions can end up very different, i was trying to squeeze it out of him again

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:05 am**

kieth4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:42 am "As a Non-Antag QM, harassed one of their cargo techs into escalating a conflict with them, until said cargo tech called them a slur and gave them an excuse to kill them"

What??? So it's homies fault he got called a slur???? What brainrot logic is this.

So if I start shoving someone and they call me a slur it's my fault and I'm waiting for an excuse???

At least it got changed but

Don't call me slurs and u won't die it's shrimple really...they also make you 1000% valid so the moment he drops it bye bye...

Also, I dunno man...shoving is fine. His chat logs are OK??

Saying laughing out loud is also FULLY allowed.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=34938

Also we're combing through his logs to say he isn't good enough at rp......yikes

Overall this feels like they placed the og ban for the wrong reasons, then dug around a bit, and then changed the note to the right reasons.

This was sometimes controversial but I believe if you're banning people for the wrong reasons then having to giga change it in the ban appeal after digging it shouldn't be a ban/note. Feels like we're playing darts here.

This is valid. i should've been more final with my reasoning when the ban was made, versus this which just wasted everyone's time needlessly and frustrated us both. Ironically for a NRP ban, my written reasoning was atrocious.

Posted: **Fri Oct 13, 2023 10:27 am**

lorwp wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2023 5:05 am
kieth4 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 12, 2023 7:42 am "As a Non-Antag QM, harassed one of their cargo techs into escalating a conflict with them, until said cargo tech called them a slur and gave them an excuse to kill them"

What??? So it's homies fault he got called a slur???? What brainrot logic is this.

So if I start shoving someone and they call me a slur it's my fault and I'm waiting for an excuse???

At least it got changed but

Don't call me slurs and u won't die it's shrimple really...they also make you 1000% valid so the moment he drops it bye bye...

Also, I dunno man...shoving is fine. His chat logs are OK??

Saying laughing out loud is also FULLY allowed.

viewtopic.php?f=85&t=34938

Also we're combing through his logs to say he isn't good enough at rp......yikes

Overall this feels like they placed the og ban for the wrong reasons, then dug around a bit, and then changed the note to the right reasons.

This was sometimes controversial but I believe if you're banning people for the wrong reasons then having to giga change it in the ban appeal after digging it shouldn't be a ban/note. Feels like we're playing darts here.
This is valid. i should've been more final with my reasoning when the ban was made, versus this which just wasted everyone's time needlessly and frustrated us both. Ironically for a NRP ban, my written reasoning was atrocious.

In these kind of situations I kind of tried to look at what rules were actually broken and wok my way back during the investigation. Makes it way less frustrating for everyone when you straight up go you broke rule x this is why

/tg/Station 13

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