/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35245

What do you think? Should someone who says to make his ban unappealable be able to appeal his ban?

Honestly I think 100% no. If you reach this point then keeping him banned is doing him a favour. People with addictive personalities whether it be drugs, gambling or gaming almost think they can handle just one more time.

nova808 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:31 am After working on myself, I believe I am able to handle addiction better now.

Says every recovering addict. There's no shame in admitting you have a problem but it would be irresponsible for admins to unban them.

They have said themselves they requested an unappealable permaban because it was impacting their real life.

An unban would be like handing a recovering alcholic some vodka. If they are 100% commited to playing SS13 they will find another server but an admin shouldn't make themself complicit in a relapse.

i have mixed feelings and will likely trigger an internal discussion regardless

Did he ever make it past 3 months? If after trying FIVE times to quit playing you can't then you have to take the L and accept that SS13 is not a positive factor in this guy's life.

Blacklist this guy. I am serious. This is the ethical thing to do.

I really don't think allowing them back within a year is acceptable if someone is hooked on a mongolian atmospherics simulator to the point it affects their real offstation life

you can check out any time you like but you can never leave

CPTANT wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 11:23 am What do you think? Should someone who says to make his ban unappealable be able to appeal his ban?

Yes, and no! Here's why:

The point of banning is to keep the community and its players safe, as well as to punish those who perform rule-breaks in order to enforce good precedents and good behavior (this sounds so fucking dictatorial). When someone appeals an unappealable self-requested ban, we must keep in mind that this person asked for this ban for their own well-being (usually because they're addicted to the game and need to focus on some specific moment of their lives, quit the addiction altogether or just walk away from the community) (let alone silly cases). For the majority of the time, it is not our place to decide whether a player is addicted or not, because you can't tell that easily through a screen, so we must go through what they say. However, if a player claims to be addicted, we can do our best to keep them safe. That's where the difference between acceptable and unacceptable unappealable self-requested ban appeals comes.

If you believe the player made a mistake or they want to return to the community after taking a break from it and bringing them back will most likely not further harm them, then there is no point in keeping them banned. We gotta keep in mind that we are adults (hopefully) and can tell when we're ready to walk into the peanutfire again.

The same doesn't apply to addictions, of course. In this case, the player clearly is not well after so many consecutive self-requested bans and appeals, and unbanning them will most likely lead them to a further spiral of addiction.

TL;DR: Use common sense. Will the player get harmed? Don't unban. Will the player probably be fine? Unban.

Scriptis wrote: You're really, really, really, really sure this time?

At this point it's just a meme lol

An alternative to not unbanning them, is just not doing any more requested bans. If they want to quit temporarily, they leave on their own.

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:26 pm An alternative to not unbanning them, is just not doing any more requested bans. If they want to quit temporarily, they leave on their own.

That's easy to say but hard to do when you're in that dude's place

I can't even find the motivation to play more than 2-3 rounds in a single day anymore what is this guy doin

Timonk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:05 pm I can't even find the motivation to play more than 2-3 rounds in a single day anymore what is this guy doin

In other words you only play for 2-4 hours per day?

Can you limit his hours per week automatically? Otherwise I agree with denying it for a year.

Is it really the administration's job to help with their addictive personality, though?

Of course, if we want to follow the explicit text of the ban, we probably should.

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:52 pm Is it really the administration's job to help with their addictive personality, though?

It may not be their job but it is something this player has explicitly requested that they attempt to do for him.
And it's pretty easily arugable that their job is "general server cultural maintenance" which probably does include excluding people who are using the game to self-harm.

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:52 pm Is it really the administration's job to help with their addictive personality, though?

Our job is not easy to define. We try to make the game enjoyable, I guess. But, if we have the tools to ensure another real human being's life quality improves, I think we should do something about it. While we do admin for a silly video game, we are not bound to it; there are people behind the screens, and I believe it is part of our job to make sure our servers do not become toxic to them, even if the cause of such is an addiction

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:36 pm Can you limit his hours per week automatically? Otherwise I agree with denying it for a year.

Even if we can't do it automatically, it's possible to just track this guy's actual playtime over a month or so. Not saying it's a good idea, but it would be interesting to see the resulting playtime graph.

I love scriptis. He may not be Overlord but he feels that way in my heart.

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:17 pm

Timonk wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:05 pm I can't even find the motivation to play more than 2-3 rounds in a single day anymore what is this guy doin

In other words you only play for 2-4 hours per day?

On a day where I play

The real solution is to hit them with the cursed clown smite each round they play till they quit on their own

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:26 pm An alternative to not unbanning them, is just not doing any more requested bans. If they want to quit temporarily, they leave on their own.

I have no problem with normal requested bans it's when people request unappealable bans where it gets confusing.