/tg/Station 13

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35231

not sure why his attempt to gain insight into and discuss his own ban would be instantly shut down and locked, thought it was encouraged for players to make attempts at understanding why they got banned

on another note, REST IN PEACE TALON MCKENDRICK, TERRY GRIEVES YOUR LOSS

We already had a peanut on this, I think?

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:50 pm We already had a peanut on this, I think?

no actually, surprisingly not

As a non antag and part of a mob on the bridge, attempted to cuff a sec officer that was trying to restore peace, ending up getting shot as a result (valid in a mob situation). The security officer ended up getting crit by the mob, taken to medical, harassed a little and then stalked, on low health, when they attempted to return to the brig, getting crit once again by the mob through harassment and escalation. Note that security officers doing their job can not be attacked or put into crit ; sec trying to restore order on the bridge is a protected action, including them /escalating/ to lethal force if necessary to disperse the crowd.

Wut. This is some grade A bullshit and is completely not stated in the rules.

I wonder what things the admin team saw recently to get them banned? I also looked at their recent logs and their say logs seem alright to me.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:14 pm

As a non antag and part of a mob on the bridge, attempted to cuff a sec officer that was trying to restore peace, ending up getting shot as a result (valid in a mob situation). The security officer ended up getting crit by the mob, taken to medical, harassed a little and then stalked, on low health, when they attempted to return to the brig, getting crit once again by the mob through harassment and escalation. Note that security officers doing their job can not be attacked or put into crit ; sec trying to restore order on the bridge is a protected action, including them /escalating/ to lethal force if necessary to disperse the crowd.

Wut. This is some grade A bullshit and is completely not stated in the rules.

It feels out of place for a mob to not attack sec.

That looks like something I would do by mistake if I joined such a mob in game. Just don't join mobs and not have the fun guys!

Lizardistaken wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:54 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 7:50 pm We already had a peanut on this, I think?

no actually, surprisingly not

WE HAD A FUCKING FUNERAL AND NO PEANUT?!

Re-Reading the note though... Poor sec officer.

I think there was a peanut for people who got banned for the funeral for this player, but no peanut for the original ban itself. How ironic.

I hate how the appeal was locked after one reply.

The ban said talons playstyle and the way they acted showed they didnt care for players or staff members

talon asks what about their playstyle is bad for other players and doesnt get a response or example for how their playstyle is bad for other players just a locked thread

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:53 am I hate how the appeal was locked after one reply.

The ban said talons playstyle and the way they acted showed they didnt care for players or staff members

talon asks what about their playstyle is bad for other players and doesnt get a response or example for how their playstyle is bad for other players just a locked thread

Well he got like 8 other people permabanned indirectly

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:53 am I hate how the appeal was locked after one reply.

The ban said talons playstyle and the way they acted showed they didnt care for players or staff members

talon asks what about their playstyle is bad for other players and doesnt get a response or example for how their playstyle is bad for other players just a locked thread

Wait... HE CANT EVEN RESPOND?

Oh boy.
That is actually just rough. That didnt really explain what kind of things Talon did wrong, and he cannot even respond to get clarification on things!

I don't like that. Not one bit.

The thing is, and there's a lot of info that's tucked away 'cos admin channels etc.: the current headmin term has made very clear that staff is being protected by the same rules players are. Sure, admins need to follow admin conduct, but someone telling an admin to kill themselves is being treated the same way as if someone did that on OOC chat or Discord to a player.

I had a conversation with some folks about this a few times already (adventists of the "who cares man I say kys to my friends all the time" church and ideology) and I think something I managed to get some of them to agree wish is: we (admins and players I mean) are not your mates at the pub. We're random people from the internet, and behind this essayposting is a real person. Some of the real persons involved in this community are fucked in the head. They don't need the encouragement, and they've might not given you opening to go around telling them to commit suicide.

Idk what sk1wass3r said in ahelps that got such animosity (I could check but I cba), I only know of him telling Justice to kys, but my suggestion would be to, you know, not do that. So:

Constellado wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:14 am That didnt really explain what kind of things Talon did wrong

only really applies if you don't know the story so far. And it's been documented in like, three threads already.

im assuming its because it was a headmin voted ban and bible assumed the only thing possible talon could say was "headmin review" which would have been redundant since hes already banned by the headmins themselves.

But it does kinda ruin the point of ban appeals where you cant even appeal your own ban or gather context as to why you were banned, it would have been a good chance for the admins to declare exactly the behavior that talon did was bad and set an example for the community.

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:43 am The thing is, and there's a lot of info that's tucked away 'cos admin channels etc.: the current headmin term has made very clear that staff is being protected by the same rules players are. Sure, admins need to follow admin conduct, but someone telling an admin to kill themselves is being treated the same way as if someone did that on OOC chat or Discord to a player.

I had a conversation with some folks about this a few times already (adventists of the "who cares man I say kys to my friends all the time" church and ideology) and I think something I managed to get some of them to agree wish is: we (admins and players I mean) are not your mates at the pub. We're random people from the internet, and behind this essayposting is a real person. Some of the real persons involved in this community are fucked in the head. They don't need the encouragement, and they've might not given you opening to go around telling them to commit suicide.

Idk what sk1wass3r said in ahelps that got such animosity (I could check but I cba), I only know of him telling Justice to kys, but my suggestion would be to, you know, not do that. So:

Constellado wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:14 am That didnt really explain what kind of things Talon did wrong

only really applies if you don't know the story so far. And it's been documented in like, three threads already.

Yeah, the problem is not everybody looks in the players club. They might see the appeal and think that the headmin team is not being communicative enough or is not giving players a fair treatment or ways to explain themselves or get clarification. That can cause a sour taste.

I agree, saying KYS to an admin is pretty bad. However, anybody looking at this appeal without reading the players club would have no idea that even happened.

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:45 am But it does kinda ruin the point of ban appeals where you cant even appeal your own ban or gather context as to why you were banned, it would have been a good chance for the admins to declare exactly the behavior that talon did was bad and set an example for the community.

I agree here.

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:43 am I had a conversation with some folks about this a few times already (adventists of the "who cares man I say kys to my friends all the time" church and ideology) and I think something I managed to get some of them to agree wish is: we (admins and players I mean) are not your mates at the pub. We're random people from the internet, and behind this essayposting is a real person. Some of the real persons involved in this community are fucked in the head. They don't need the encouragement, and they've might not given you opening to go around telling them to commit suicide.

And to the people from that church, if your "mate" did end up killing themselves you'd probably feel bad over joking about it.
People at my highschool were edgelords and said that shit jokingly to each other too. A decade or two later more than a couple of people from that crew did kill themselves. Statistically that's something that will happen, particularly with males. I don't recall ever saying that to anyone so I'm lucky in that regard.
Similarly, you can imagine the amount of rage that would be directed towards a community if someone did commit suicide and people believed that community encouraged it.

Constellado wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 3:12 am Yeah, the problem is not everybody looks in the players club. They might see the appeal and think that the headmin team is not being communicative enough or is not giving players a fair treatment or ways to explain themselves or get clarification. That can cause a sour taste.

Right yeah that's a good point. Things as they are though, I feel ban appeals are more open to the world as a tool in cases where other parties can get involved (like someone with logs or the other party in a conflict).

In this, the parties where sk1wass3r, Justice and the headmins. Not much any of us can really do besides, well, not do what he did. Which is to tell people to kill themselves.

At the end of the day it's a rule 1 ban through and through. Just don't be a dick. But I can understand how not knowing the details can leave someone anxious they're gonna do the same without knowing since the original ban appeal lacked information.

opens appeal
biblemelts responds and says "no lol"
immediately closes
Ok

For the ban in question, the ban was never ordered by justice themselves, that is as much as I know.

I don't know why the headmins decided to do this, I was even surprised they did this, this was a black box to admins so we can never really know what happened.

I think a major reason for unhappiness in peanuts is because what goes into a ban is a black box to outsiders. Sometimes it's revealed to others, sometimes it's...not.

Take viewtopic.php?f=83&t=34877 for example. The peanut thread escalated into a very ugly argument between admins and forumposters because little information was given initially over the bans and part of it was due to the sheer size of the evidence that was sent to us + the fact we had 6 headmins + elects looking into it and having to sort it out. I knew there was going to be a field day with this and it even got interrupted by starsector posting (which was probably why starsector posting appeals is now being cracked down upon because it was in the middle of a high-tension argument).

QC bans by headmins exemplify that "black box" status. Headmins (and possibly GMs) gather evidence on one and that investigation isn't revealed to other admins, just the result (if it results in action). So we don't actually have an idea either except for previous note history, which is in itself private to all except admins. The best you can hope for is an explanation from TBM or the other headmins themselves on why he was banned.

Why was the appeal immediately closed when it is policy to keep it open for 24 hours?

As others have mentioned, I don't like the fact that the appeal was practically immediately closed.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:03 am Why was the appeal immediately closed when it is policy to keep it open for 24 hours?

it's normal to close appeals after a headmin review - and since this ban was applied by all three headmins, there is nowhere left to go and nothing left to discuss without escalation to mso.

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 5:55 pm

CPTANT wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:03 am Why was the appeal immediately closed when it is policy to keep it open for 24 hours?

it's normal to close appeals after a headmin review - and since this ban was applied by all three headmins, there is nowhere left to go and nothing left to discuss without escalation to mso.

why was he not even given a chance to talk about his ban? the appeal was obviously a sincere attempt at getting some kind of insight into what is going on. i mean, he even specifically says he wants to discuss and understand. how is a player expected to reflect on and eventually improve their behaviour in case of a future appeal if they are left completely in the dark on why they are getting banned in the first place? ignoring the appeal as well as the in-game ticket is honestly just genuinely awful moderation. not a good look at all, but i'm sure you've realized this much considering many people are (understandably) dissatisfied with how you've managed this.

also it's a bit odd to frame the ban as quality control when at least 20+ people were willing to visit his funeral. it clearly shows that a lot of the players have no problem with him and have had some good times playing together. i thought QC bans were meant to improve the overall game experience for the community.

i'd like to know why my essay on communism got deleted from the pepper thread while we're at it

Does anyone know where my anarchists cookbook copypasta went

Did talon actually tell anyone to KYS? I know about retirement comments, but I think I missed killing part.

EDIT: except for the "kill yourself centcom" that he got noted for a few months ago

Maxipat wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 2:27 pm Did talon actually tell anyone to KYS? I know about retirement comments, but I think I missed killing part.

EDIT: except for the "kill yourself centcom" that he got noted for a few months ago

nah i don't think he told anyone to kys, from what i've read in the threads and appeal he only ever said kys to centcom. also looks like the appeal got unlocked, so good for him, actually gets a chance to talk

It would be very funny in a twisted way if they got unbanned after so many people got banned for the funeral thing.

GPeckman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 4:21 am It would be very funny in a twisted way if they got unbanned after so many people got banned for the funeral thing.

That would be the ultimate irony.

Holding a funeral for a person and dying in the process only to realize they got revived.

this might be the most unserious qc ban of all time

Was this actually a honeypot operation?

Ever thus to metafriends

LOL HE GOT UNBANNED AND ALMOST EVERYONE ELSE IS STILL BANNED

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Bro that dogwhiste is now warped with use.

i mean i havent noticed sk1wass3r on terry apart from them consistently ignoring me whenever i try to talk to them

And remember everybody, he got unbanned because of us! We convinced the headmins to reopen the appeal.

So proud!!

Constellado wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:46 pm And remember everybody, he got unbanned because of us! We convinced the headmins to reopen the appeal.

So proud!!

There was an admin complaint made to re open it you have nothing to do with it

kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:55 pm

Constellado wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:46 pm And remember everybody, he got unbanned because of us! We convinced the headmins to reopen the appeal.

So proud!!

There was an admin complaint made to re open it you have nothing to do with it

That's why I said we.

The headmins looked in the peanut thread for it, we influenced it as a players club.