/tg/Station 13

Err.... WHY was it disabled, though?

i created a poll for rocking the vote

dont rock the boat

Just vote for the map you want the first time

Having RtV disabled is good.

The only justifiable excuse for why we have midround map voting is so that people can know whether they want to come back next round or not. It's the only reason I've heard anyone talk about why it's good, that makes any sense.

Having Rock the Vote completely nullified that. It made there absolutely zero point to it. So either midround map votes should be disabled, or RtV should be disabled. This is a good change.

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:59 am Just vote for the map you want the first time

Are you telling me it's a skill issue

Timonk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:04 am

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:59 am Just vote for the map you want the first time

Are you telling me it's a skill issue

Needing to rock the vote is absolutely skill issue. It's aid. It's assist.

Demonic admins forcing good players to play b*rdshot after a sneaky vote passes, 1984

Sa13 players really hate when a map is slightly sub optimal

Won’t this just make the whole “start a map vote 0.2 seconds after the server resets, then RTV it so people can’t change the map” even worse? Feels like 90% of people doing it are for Tram and especially Birdshot.

It also makes “I’m leaving after this round so I’m going to vote tram/birdshot*” or those fucks who sneak in map votes in the middle of a huge thing going on in the station a bigger issue as well. It’s gotten to the point that I’ll say something in OOC to get people’s attention to the map vote/rtv

*I’m 100% biased against Birdshot (I’ve warmed up to team a little) but this is an actual thing.

The hate on birdshot is ridiculous. Except in terms of aesthetics it is a perfectly fine map. In fact, I'll go further - it's BETTER than ice box. There, I said it.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:16 pm The hate on birdshot is ridiculous. Except in terms of aesthetics it is a perfectly fine map. In fact, I'll go further - it's BETTER than ice box. There, I said it.

LET'S
NOT
GET
CRAZY

voting is a terrible idea in the first place for maps. people will vote for the safest vanilla option until the vote literally forces them to pick between birdshot and tram, making it pointless in the first place.

but we should not remove the vote.

we should make the entire process so confusing, stressful and labyrinthine that the pure kafka dissociation will not permit you the presence of mind to see through the deception when we tell you that 418,000 people voted for birdshot next round, actually.

conrad wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:17 pm

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:16 pm The hate on birdshot is ridiculous. Except in terms of aesthetics it is a perfectly fine map. In fact, I'll go further - it's BETTER than ice box. There, I said it.

LET'S
NOT
GET
CRAZY

Tell me it isnt. I dare you to look at the Bar on icebox and compare it to the AMAZING placement of the Bar on Birdshot and tell me with a straight face that Birdshot isn't better. Also, icebox has nearly completely pointless multi-z, whereas Birdshot is glorious single z. Birdshot has better performance. Birdshot has really cool gimmicks with the floating exam room and the isolated perma (although icebox's perma is definitely the best one.). Except for the aesthetics choices on birdshot being bad, it is the better map. In fact - Birdshot is the second best map in rotation after Metastation.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:21 pm we should make the entire process so confusing, stressful and labyrinthine that the pure kafka dissociation will not permit you the presence of mind to see through the deception when we tell you that 418,000 people voted for birdshot next round, actually.

"headmins also noted that if players decided to vote straight ticket tram/birdshot, they can just hit the big red button at the center of the machine"

we really, really need an obvious vote noise. every other server ive played on has one and it helps a shit ton, especially for things like restarts on lowpop during a murderbone where the fella refuses to call its always so mis to see more than half the server not vote because theyre tabbed out watching youtube so it just gets counted as a no

Yeah like you said voting does have a noise but it's a super minor ping (or something, I can't describe noises). The issue is if basically ANYTHING else is going on you won't hear it. It's why sneaking in a map vote/RTV during a high action moment is so effective. Also forbidding map votes for the first, like, 15 minutes probably wouldn't hurt, or at least forbid it till the round full on starts to prevent people starting a map vote a nanosecond after the server restarts.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:16 pm The hate on birdshot is ridiculous. Except in terms of aesthetics it is a perfectly fine map. In fact, I'll go further - it's BETTER than ice box. There, I said it.

I'ma be honest I don't really hate birdshot as much as I hate that it turns people to raving foaming at the mouth morons in every round I've played on it. It's the broken window theory in full force. Its a bit of confirmation bias but all of the worst rounds I've ever had in the last six months+ have been birdshot ones.

https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkxdp7q9w ... kng1mfzbRh

(funfact, the [youtube] thing doesn't work for shorts it seems)

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:16 pm The hate on birdshot is ridiculous. Except in terms of aesthetics it is a perfectly fine map. In fact, I'll go further - it's BETTER than ice box. There, I said it.

Agreed. Icebox is too dark, too laggy, and I hate the sec layout.

cSeal wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:33 pm we really, really need an obvious vote noise. every other server ive played on has one and it helps a shit ton, especially for things like restarts on lowpop during a murderbone where the fella refuses to call its always so mis to see more than half the server not vote because theyre tabbed out watching youtube so it just gets counted as a no

air raid siren?

Timonk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:21 pm

cSeal wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:33 pm we really, really need an obvious vote noise. every other server ive played on has one and it helps a shit ton, especially for things like restarts on lowpop during a murderbone where the fella refuses to call its always so mis to see more than half the server not vote because theyre tabbed out watching youtube so it just gets counted as a no

air raid siren?

People would probably just think its a fire alarm or something. it should be 15 seconds of oranges ranting about biddle instead I think

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:23 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:17 pm

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:16 pm The hate on birdshot is ridiculous. Except in terms of aesthetics it is a perfectly fine map. In fact, I'll go further - it's BETTER than ice box. There, I said it.

LET'S
NOT
GET
CRAZY

Tell me it isnt.

it isnt.

I really don't understand why this stuff just gets done without a single hint of a player poll or nothing, and instead under the attitude of "it's good for you, trust us." Annoying to say the least.

BonChoi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:45 pm I really don't understand why this stuff just gets done without a single hint of a player poll or nothing, and instead under the attitude of "it's good for you, trust us." Annoying to say the least.

there's no point doing a player poll because if we didn't like it we'd rock the vote and then run it again until we get the right result

like 70% of map votes dont even reach double digits on their vote counts. rtv was great at making sure that the server would participate. can we just replace the sound pls

TRAMSTATION TRAMMERS LET THEM HEAR YOUR ROAR

cSeal wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:33 pm we really, really need an obvious vote noise. every other server ive played on has one and it helps a shit ton, especially for things like restarts on lowpop during a murderbone where the fella refuses to call its always so mis to see more than half the server not vote because theyre tabbed out watching youtube so it just gets counted as a no

This would be great

Mothblocks added it to the changelog, but I was the one who did it.

I'm gonna likely re-create my old system of weighted random. where your vote just chose the random odds for the map pick. Gonna also have the current map have a 10% down weight for every round it was played in the last 5 rounds, so cp_2fortdust can't dominate the map pool.

People hate new maps because they are new and scary, and because they would rather vote away from the map then report the bugs it has so they can be fixed. RTV was often used for this purpose. "Oh the new map i don't have the layout of memorized finally got voted? time to rtv back to 2fort".

Ironically new and scary maps where you don't know how to path the first 10 minutes to get all your gear tend to give a lot more engaging rounds

MrStonedOne wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:27 pm Mothblocks added it to the changelog, but I was the one who did it.

I'm gonna likely re-create my old system of weighted random. where your vote just chose the random odds for the map pick. Gonna also have the current map have a 10% down weight for every round it was played in the last 5 rounds, so cp_2fortdust can't dominate the map pool.

People hate new maps because they are new and scary, and because they would rather vote away from the map then report the bugs it has so they can be fixed. RTV was often used for this purpose. "Oh the new map i don't have the layout of memorized finally got voted? time to rtv back to 2fort".

This is absolutely fair and I actually agree with the change after reading this post. Thanks for elaborating. I just wish you would've made the post in the changelog or had it spelled out that you had made the change so I probably wouldn't have gotten the ol pitchfork out so early lol.

E: Also I think the idea with the weighted random is better than what we have now.

MrStonedOne wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:27 pm Mothblocks added it to the changelog, but I was the one who did it.

I'm gonna likely re-create my old system of weighted random. where your vote just chose the random odds for the map pick. Gonna also have the current map have a 10% down weight for every round it was played in the last 5 rounds, so cp_2fortdust can't dominate the map pool.

People hate new maps because they are new and scary, and because they would rather vote away from the map then report the bugs it has so they can be fixed. RTV was often used for this purpose. "Oh the new map i don't have the layout of memorized finally got voted? time to rtv back to 2fort".

Why don't we remove Meta instead because that would be funny as hell and cause a lot of people to be upset?

Armhulen wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:30 pm Ironically new and scary maps where you don't know how to path the first 10 minutes to get all your gear tend to give a lot more engaging rounds

Fine argument for Tram, but Birdshot's layout is literal ass.

zergking wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 12:07 am

MrStonedOne wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:27 pm -snip-

Why don't we remove Meta instead because that would be funny as hell and cause a lot of people to be upset?

For the same reason that I'm not as upset anymore, this wasn't a change to just piss people off, it had purpose to it.

the reason is because at the time of the change, north star had ran ten times in total in the past 3 months on sybil. when i was playing a round the one time i was going to see it in the last month of playing, the vote was rocked to instead choose meta station. the map voting system will almost certainly be changed to allow for popular maps to run more often without a month long drought of a map not being played at all

BonChoi wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:45 pm I really don't understand why this stuff just gets done without a single hint of a player poll or nothing, and instead under the attitude of "it's good for you, trust us." Annoying to say the least.

I gotta be honest with you bro that's just how it be. Codebase makes far more sweeping changes daily without player approval, it's the vibe.

Usually when a map is very new it gets picked constantly, then after a couple weeks people learn the map then start voting for their favourites, which is uaually not the new map.

People vote for tram a lot now. people used to hate that map. I guess the changes to the track controllers did a lot to make it better.

I like birdshot but people hate that map so I don't play it much.
People would vote for birdshot more if it didnt have as many issues I think? I don't know. I like the layout and vibe more than kilo (which it replaced) atleast.
Birdshot still has atmos issues. Waste is clogged due to the stupid co2 and n2o tanks.

Northstar has a broken disposals which was working a month ago but now it's broke. I like the map but the more I play the more I realise a lot of places are out of the way so they don't get used much, like the theatre and courtroom. nobody even goes near the theatre. Same with the holodeck. I bet if I poppd as blob in the theatre or made a heretic base in there nobody would find it for a while. I still like it a lot though, I can RP and do engineering projects without worrying as much about maintenance because breaches are harder to happen and rats dn't eat the cables.

Northstar needs to be voted in more.

Only place I see rock the vote good is if when somebody does the map vote at the start of a round. By the end of the round the people playing could be a different set of people, so redoing the vote is good for that situation.

zergking wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 12:07 am

MrStonedOne wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 7:27 pm Mothblocks added it to the changelog, but I was the one who did it.

I'm gonna likely re-create my old system of weighted random. where your vote just chose the random odds for the map pick. Gonna also have the current map have a 10% down weight for every round it was played in the last 5 rounds, so cp_2fortdust can't dominate the map pool.

People hate new maps because they are new and scary, and because they would rather vote away from the map then report the bugs it has so they can be fixed. RTV was often used for this purpose. "Oh the new map i don't have the layout of memorized finally got voted? time to rtv back to 2fort".

Why don't we remove Meta instead because that would be funny as hell and cause a lot of people to be upset?

I fully support this because Meta is boring and we'd still have Delta, which is Meta+

We don't need both Meta AND Delta and of the two getting rid of Meta makes more sense.

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 4:38 am the reason is because at the time of the change, north star had ran ten times in total in the past 3 months on sybil. when i was playing a round the one time i was going to see it in the last month of playing, the vote was rocked to instead choose meta station. the map voting system will almost certainly be changed to allow for popular maps to run more often without a month long drought of a map not being played at all

This is because Northstar has performance issues, so no one wants to play on it. I have two different setups I play on, a laptop at work and a much more powerful desktop at home, and the laptop chugs along and acts like I'm trying to force it to render an 8k movie on northstar, despite being able to play MUCH more technically demanding games just fine, while every other map is just fine - icebox had lesser performance issues as well for a couple of months but those got fixed at some point. Were northstar's performance issues ever fixed? I don't know! But since I know the previous times I tried playing on it it sucked performance wise, I don't want to vote for or play on it ever. Why vote for northstar just to "test" if it's working properly now, when I can just vote for Metastation which I know just works? I'm here to play the game, after all. Like even Birdshot, for all the hate it gets, it runs perfectly well.

Well, that and Sybil's population has collapsed so for 90% of the day Sybil doesn't even meet the population requirements for northstar anyway.

Didn't rock the vote only get added because goof, added it with the arguement of that the players could change the map because people who didn't notice the vote could change the map and maybe some peoppe can't even vote middle in the round due what they are doing like a antag chase idk.

Maybe the vote should only be roundstart/endround like yknow where everyone has the time to spare

yeah honestly why can you even call for a map vote mid round

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:55 am
This is because Northstar has performance issues, so no one wants to play on it. I have two different setups I play on, a laptop at work and a much more powerful desktop at home, and the laptop chugs along and acts like I'm trying to force it to render an 8k movie on northstar, despite being able to play MUCH more technically demanding games just fine, while every other map is just fine - icebox had lesser performance issues as well for a couple of months but those got fixed at some point. Were northstar's performance issues ever fixed? I don't know! But since I know the previous times I tried playing on it it sucked performance wise, I don't want to vote for or play on it ever. Why vote for northstar just to "test" if it's working properly now, when I can just vote for Metastation which I know just works? I'm here to play the game, after all. Like even Birdshot, for all the hate it gets, it runs perfectly well.

If northstar has performance issues clientside then icebox will have the same (tho less cause less z levels). https://discord.com/channels/3268221442 ... 7658560543
Workin on it. your game is my test server

Ezel wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:10 am Didn't rock the vote only get added because goof, added it with the arguement of that the players could change the map because people who didn't notice the vote could change the map and maybe some peoppe can't even vote middle in the round due what they are doing like a antag chase idk.

Maybe the vote should only be roundstart/endround like yknow where everyone has the time to spare

it was san and i merged it but regret it

While obviously we need to force peoples hands a bit to actually get the new maps up to snuff, its hard to blame the people who are just here to have fun and dont want to do dev work instead of a normal round for forcing their favorite maps repeatedly.

Its also hard to tell between “im not voting for this map because its broken and buggy”, “im not voting for this map because it used to be broken and buggy and i dont feel like second chances, and “i just dont like this maps and it’s impossible to leave feedback about it because everything i dislike is a Feature or the maps Gimmick, so i want to play literally anywhere else”

(Complaining that the largest map in the game doesnt get much play on a server that rarely edges over 30 people is at least a little silly)

ive been decently active on sybil and i legit have *never* played on northstar until last night which i dont think is a good sign

Northstar and birdshot are cool and all but if there’s a chance to play meta or delta or icebox or even tram then why not? Time isn’t infinite and picking the station you are about to dedicate an hour+ to is a big decision, and one where playing it safe with a comfort map is always more appealing than not

Sorry guys, this was already voted on, rocked, and voted on again moments after the decision was made. It's a shame you weren't there for it, but it's set in stone now.

I'd kind of wanted this to happen for a while, the only reason I'd ever advocated for us keeping it was because it was funny when someone tried to do it and the same map got voted for again.

It's a pointless exercise because about 90% of the time it was used was directly after a map vote when a map someone didn't want got chosen.

Vote by not playing when there is a map you don't want to play.

Go to tg discord and ping the bot to notify you on server restart so youll know when the next round starts.

lame admins force a map on players by using the change-map verb.
based admins start a vote then varedit the results so the map they want gets 1,984 votes

Redpilled admins varedit the config controller to give the map they want a 3x vote weight so players don't even know the vote was rigged