/tg/Station 13

Boo!

Looking at the logs a bit, it looks like they cremated an assistant (Honda Mothra, an assistant and seemingly one of the moths on the bridge/captain's office), the paramedic Riley Cavalet and the borg. It looks like they opened fire on the paramedic inside the chap's office, and cremated them because they were healing the assistant and for seemingly just being in proximity to the conflict at all and the captain dragged them into it by attacking first.

From what I can tell, this captain only got banned over the dead borg but I think he had literally no justification for killing that paramedic and cremating him either, he was literally just doing his job.

Don't get me wrong, people invading the office are asking for trouble, but to chase someone all the way into the chap's office to kill and cremate them for having been a bystander is fucked.

Edit: Also, I believe the captain is strictly wrong. The borg was flashing the invaders.

[2024-03-13 18:01:26.838] ATTACK: -/(Firelock) (mob_3379) flashed(targeted) -/(Plof) with the flash (NEWHP: 30.7) (Captain's Office (122,128,4))
[2024-03-13 18:01:32.164] ATTACK: -/(Firelock) (mob_3379) flashed(targeted) -/(Talon Mckendrick) with the flash (NEWHP: -4.2) (Captain's Office (123,131,4))

Then the captain flashed and killed it

[2024-03-13 18:01:44.463] ATTACK: Sergey Vorobiov/(Michail Fedorenko) (mob_3420) flashed -/(Firelock) with the flash (NEWHP: -1.25) (Captain's Office (120,131,4))
[2024-03-13 18:01:46.628] ATTACK: Sergey Vorobiov/(Michail Fedorenko) (mob_3420) attacked -/(Firelock) with officer's sabre (COMBAT MODE: 0) (DAMTYPE: BRUTE) (NEWHP: -12.5) (Captain's Office (120,130,4))

For reasons?

getting teenaged vibes from this appeal text

this seems like a very standard textbook dayban for cremating the paramedic.

if anything this could've been longer.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:51 pm this seems like a very standard textbook dayban for cremating the paramedic.

if anything this could've been longer.

I was around for this and slightly pushed for it to be longer.

But also let's talk about what happened next.

After the captain was banned I offered him up to ghosts with a healthy injection of moth mutation toxin. Once he left the bridge he was almost immediately killed by a moth ling in front of a grateful crowd, and locked in a crate in maintenance. The lings parting words "that was for the moths"

Mothed

So like did the paramedic just happen to stumble across an greytider assistant who was being manhunted to death at the worst possible moment (right before the captain burst in) or were they following them around or what?

I assume the paramedic wasnt following them around healing them while knowing they were being chased by a vengeful captain or people wouldnt be saying he should be banned for killing them too, so I guess this is just one poor doc in the wrong place at the wrong time

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 5:47 am From what I can tell, this captain only got banned over the dead borg but I think he had literally no justification for killing that paramedic and cremating him either, he was literally just doing his job.

Borg deserved it. Paramedic didn't. 1-1+1 is still 1, his ban amount remains unchanged.
An Asimov borg has no business interfering with a human who is harming non-humans.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:16 pm So like did the paramedic just happen to stumble across an greytider assistant who was being manhunted to death at the worst possible moment (right before the captain burst in) or were they following them around or what?

I assume the paramedic wasnt following them around healing them while knowing they were being chased by a vengeful captain or people wouldnt be saying he should be banned for killing them too, so I guess this is just one poor doc in the wrong place at the wrong time

This paramedic absolutely could've been an accessory, you're right, but we don't really have any reason to conclude that, and round-removing him without the bare minimum investigation, if that is what happened, is still not a good look. Healing people is his job, he may not have known this guy was bad.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:41 am

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 11:16 pm So like did the paramedic just happen to stumble across an greytider assistant who was being manhunted to death at the worst possible moment (right before the captain burst in) or were they following them around or what?

I assume the paramedic wasnt following them around healing them while knowing they were being chased by a vengeful captain or people wouldnt be saying he should be banned for killing them too, so I guess this is just one poor doc in the wrong place at the wrong time

This paramedic absolutely could've been an accessory, you're right, but we don't really have any reason to conclude that, and round-removing him without the bare minimum investigation, if that is what happened, is still not a good look. Healing people is his job, he may not have known this guy was bad.

Oh I dont think the paramed was doing anything bad, i was just remarking over that incredibly bad timing.

mindstormy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 12:07 am Sure it was a bit messy with all that was going on in your office but from what I can see the borg was just trying to prevent harm.

The borg's job isn't to "prevent harm", it's to prevent HUMAN harm. According to the appellant's account of the events, the only human present told the borg to leave, meaning the only human who could be harmed just consented to not having the borg's protection, and the borg refused to obey this law 2 command. Rule 4, borg fucked around and found out. Yeah, it's common to get rogue borgs revived and reset, but, just like you have no obligation to revive a traitor, you shouldn't have any obligation to revive a rogue borg.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:44 am The borg's job isn't to "prevent harm", it's to prevent HUMAN harm. According to the appellant's account of the events, the only human present told the borg to leave, meaning the only human who could be harmed just consented to not having the borg's protection, and the borg refused to obey this law 2 command. Rule 4, borg fucked around and found out. Yeah, it's common to get rogue borgs revived and reset, but, just like you have no obligation to revive a traitor, you shouldn't have any obligation to revive a rogue borg.

There's a difference between not bringing it to be revived and incinerating it so it can never be revived.

gameaddict07 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 10:02 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:44 am The borg's job isn't to "prevent harm", it's to prevent HUMAN harm. According to the appellant's account of the events, the only human present told the borg to leave, meaning the only human who could be harmed just consented to not having the borg's protection, and the borg refused to obey this law 2 command. Rule 4, borg fucked around and found out. Yeah, it's common to get rogue borgs revived and reset, but, just like you have no obligation to revive a traitor, you shouldn't have any obligation to revive a rogue borg.

There's a difference between not bringing it to be revived and incinerating it so it can never be revived.

Round removing antags is valid, and so is round removing self-antags.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:07 pm

gameaddict07 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 10:02 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:44 am The borg's job isn't to "prevent harm", it's to prevent HUMAN harm. According to the appellant's account of the events, the only human present told the borg to leave, meaning the only human who could be harmed just consented to not having the borg's protection, and the borg refused to obey this law 2 command. Rule 4, borg fucked around and found out. Yeah, it's common to get rogue borgs revived and reset, but, just like you have no obligation to revive a traitor, you shouldn't have any obligation to revive a rogue borg.

There's a difference between not bringing it to be revived and incinerating it so it can never be revived.

Round removing antags is valid, and so is round removing self-antags.

If the captain thought the AI was malf and this was a malf borg fine. I'd be fine with that. I'm all for killing annoying borgs, I've even made a policy thread about it.

I think it's obvious from his actions that this captain did not think the AI was malf. But he RR'd the borg regardless.

Incidentally, this player has now been banned from command roles for doing basically the same thing, hours after being unbanned.

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:13 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 11:07 pm

gameaddict07 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 10:02 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:44 am The borg's job isn't to "prevent harm", it's to prevent HUMAN harm. According to the appellant's account of the events, the only human present told the borg to leave, meaning the only human who could be harmed just consented to not having the borg's protection, and the borg refused to obey this law 2 command. Rule 4, borg fucked around and found out. Yeah, it's common to get rogue borgs revived and reset, but, just like you have no obligation to revive a traitor, you shouldn't have any obligation to revive a rogue borg.

There's a difference between not bringing it to be revived and incinerating it so it can never be revived.

Round removing antags is valid, and so is round removing self-antags.

If the captain thought the AI was malf and this was a malf borg fine. I'd be fine with that.

What makes you think he didn't? In his account, he describes the borg as disobeying law 2 orders, without any humans being harmed to override said orders, which, if true, means he is either malfunctioning, subverted, or self-antagging.

RR is stinky for Borgs because you can fix their laws/rebuild them.

I wonder if there are rules about rejoining again as a positronic with the same name after your last brain got RRd.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:40 am snip

I was watching.

Constellado wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:41 am I wonder if there are rules about rejoining again as a positronic with the same name after your last brain got RRd.

You can do it, but you don't remember your previous life.

fun fact this guy cremated me twice in 2 consecutive rounds yesterday

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:41 am Borg deserved it. Paramedic didn't. 1-1+1 is still 1, his ban amount remains unchanged.

Now this made me think... What if we add ban tokens? Like, you do something good, you get your next ban's duration reduced XD

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:14 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:41 am Borg deserved it. Paramedic didn't. 1-1+1 is still 1, his ban amount remains unchanged.

Now this made me think... What if we add ban tokens? Like, you do something good, you get your next ban's duration reduced XD

This is based. I've actually written about it, perhaps that post planted the idea in your head and you later forgot:

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:58 pm it should be 1 singular day, not 3. Retroactively commute this man's sentence, give him a 2 day "get out of ban free" card.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:27 pm

Justice12354 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 11:14 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:41 am Borg deserved it. Paramedic didn't. 1-1+1 is still 1, his ban amount remains unchanged.

Now this made me think... What if we add ban tokens? Like, you do something good, you get your next ban's duration reduced XD

This is based. I've actually written about it, perhaps that post planted the idea in your head and you later forgot:

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 8:58 pm it should be 1 singular day, not 3. Retroactively commute this man's sentence, give him a 2 day "get out of ban free" card.

Maybe, maybe not- I feel that could be used to diminish or cheaply reduce a fair ban- which are there for good reasons. You can ask for ban reductions with examples of good behaviour already, its just never asked. Maybe we make that more clear of an option?

AFAIK previous behaviour is usually taken into account for a ban anyways, that being when deciding the length of one

Timonk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:02 am viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35924

6.5/10

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:04 pm

Timonk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:02 am viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35924

6.5/10

turn on your screen so it doesnt act as a mirror

Timonk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:37 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:04 pm

Timonk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:02 am viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35924

6.5/10

turn on your screen so it doesnt act as a mirror

if only your thread titles were as clever as your insults

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:45 pm

Timonk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:37 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:04 pm

Timonk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:02 am viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35924

6.5/10

turn on your screen so it doesnt act as a mirror

if only your thread titles were as clever as your insults

thanks i like to use this insult in league of legends matches