/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

According to the roundstart fluff detectives are not supposed to make arrests yada yada.

I've always seen that as a roleplay suggestion much like spesslaw is, especially since promoted detectives don't get to see this text at all.

However it's been used as an argument as part of a ban(valid or not aside and it's only a small part of the whole reasoning) but I'd like a clear guideline from the headmins because I've never enforced the detective can't arrest thing myself since I thought it was roleplay fluff.

An additional note is that anyone can arrest anyone, ye olde citizen arrest. Since it's roleplay fluff it should probably not protect you from sec arresting you for making well, unlawful arrests, if your reasoning is dumb.
Also if we are enforcing this roleplay fluff this would mean detectives don't have the same escalation protection as security which may or may not be the case already.

It doesn't change the fact that detective isn't security. Security Officer is security. Head of Security is Security. If there was a role called Security Detective, I am certain that would be a security role.

The detective doesn't start with the same access that security has, and has the same headset as the lawyer, whilst security get bowmans. If you want to play security just join as it.

Istoprocent1 wrote:

obscolene wrote:Remove the detective revolver? Well, okay. If you say so, buddy!

Yeah, this comes from a guy who mains the detective. I have no problem with it being replaced with a more robust weapon such as a disabler (12 shots iirc, 3 to gg) or taser, which both cause less damage to the crew and the station.

In a realistic situation .38 loses to stechkin as it seems that stechkin fires faster. Not even taking into account the reaction times needed to pull the gun once you are being shot at.

If we are looking for a "self-defense" weapon, then the weapon needs to be a 1 hit gg so the detective would have a fighting chance to defend. Has to fit belt slot for fast drawing. Probably something similar to sawn off shotgun with rubbershots.

No, that's not what my post said. I clearly just said 'remove the revolver,' no replacement for it stated. The detective's job is to investigate crimes, why would he need a taser? Clearly you must have the wrong idea of what the detective job is supposed to be.

CrazyClown12 wrote:It doesn't change the fact that detective isn't security. Security Officer is security. Head of Security is Security. If there was a role called Security Detective, I am certain that would be a security role.

The detective doesn't start with the same access that security has, and has the same headset as the lawyer, whilst security get bowmans. If you want to play security just join as it.

This whole thread is about this issue yes however it seems like the majority disagrees with you.

If you start with a mindshield and cant be an antagonist and you spawn inside of the brig you're pretty much security. The lawyer is missing all of these things most of the time afaik.

Detective is listed under security on wiki and in job preferences. They just are expected to have a different purpose than a regular officer, same as how warden has a diff purpose. Yes you /could/ run around chasing assistants through maint all shift as a warden, but youd be a real shit warden.

Edit: i guess that could bring up the question of: should people who take very limited roles (heads/warden/det/viro/etc) be subject to warnings/notes/jobbans if they frequently take a role and ignore doing their expected job?

CrazyClown12 wrote:https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Detective


You are not Security. You are an investigator. Your revolver is only for self-defense.

>using the wiki as evidence when it's incomplete and full of contradictions
:big_thonk:

DrunkenMatey wrote:Detective is listed under security on wiki and in job preferences. They just are expected to have a different purpose than a regular officer, same as how warden has a diff purpose. Yes you /could/ run around chasing assistants through maint all shift as a warden, but youd be a real shit warden.

Edit: i guess that could bring up the question of: should people who take very limited roles (heads/warden/det/viro/etc) be subject to warnings/notes/jobbans if they frequently take a role and ignore doing their expected job?

Doesn't that come directly under rule 1? If you're consistently taking a limited role no intention of doing that job, then you are blocking out people that would do the job. Isto could easily do the same job he does now by either playing sec or just putting a grenade on top of a spear and throwing it at valids.

CrazyClown12 wrote:

DrunkenMatey wrote:Detective is listed under security on wiki and in job preferences. They just are expected to have a different purpose than a regular officer, same as how warden has a diff purpose. Yes you /could/ run around chasing assistants through maint all shift as a warden, but youd be a real shit warden.

Edit: i guess that could bring up the question of: should people who take very limited roles (heads/warden/det/viro/etc) be subject to warnings/notes/jobbans if they frequently take a role and ignore doing their expected job?

Doesn't that come directly under rule 1? If you're consistently taking a limited role no intention of doing that job, then you are blocking out people that would do the job. Isto could easily do the same job he does now by either playing sec or just putting a grenade on top of a spear and throwing it at valids.

You what, mate? You lacking the capacity to do multiple things, doesn't mean others are as well.

Rule 1 would be an Engineer (limited job), breaking into captain's office and stealing the spare, then spending the rest of the round running around in a dress.

Detective investigating and catching the bad guys, whether they have gotten the intel themselves or over security radio is pretty much the job their are designed to do and far from Rule 1 - if a detective just fucked off and started doing shaft mining every single shift, then that could be a no-no at some point.

Ask yourself, if you are trying to paint the detective as a solo protagonist, who has to do everything right for a good reason or is it just because you dislike me? If the detective is able to solve crimes and help catching the bad guys, then that is beneficial to the security team and to the whole station. The more competent security detail the team has, the less criminals will be running around.

obscolene wrote:No, that's not what my post said. I clearly just said 'remove the revolver,' no replacement for it stated.

That face when in the round where I was unjustifiably gassed the revolver was never used. :thonking:

Detective investigating and catching the bad guys
Ask yourself, if you are trying to paint the detective as a solo protagonist, who has to do everything right for a good reason or is it just because you dislike me? If the detective is able to solve crimes and help catching the bad guys, then that is beneficial to the security team and to the whole station. The more competent security detail the team has, the less criminals will be running around.

Go and stay go from detective please I beg of you.

It would be pretty interesting to see if people hate you more/less/same if you played sec officer main for awhile instead of det.

DrunkenMatey wrote:It would be pretty interesting to see if people hate you more/less/same if you played sec officer main for awhile instead of det.

Probably have to, because having to ahelp for permission every time I want use a revolver or present my investigation results to be allowed to chase the criminal would be immersion breaking and not fun or getting punished for not being able to baton down the fleeing antag with bunch of morale related speed buffs.

Will people be less salty about being caught? Probably not.

Isto, again, why do you play detective?

somerandomguy wrote:Isto, again, why do you play detective?

I have figured out that security jobs provide me with the stimuli needed to get into the flow state (immersed in the activity to the the point where other things become irrelevant).
The detective starts with the scanner, which is helpful at times for solving some crimes, which would go unsolved without one. Aside from that I enjoy having an office and a fashionable set of clothing. To be honest I haven't seen anybody do a better job at being a detective when it comes to detecting and solving the crimes.

Istoprocent1 wrote:

obscolene wrote:No, that's not what my post said. I clearly just said 'remove the revolver,' no replacement for it stated.

That face when in the round where I was unjustifiably gassed the revolver was never used. :thonking:

Again, that has literally nothing to do with my post.

Istoprocent1 wrote:

somerandomguy wrote:Isto, again, why do you play detective?

I have figured out that security jobs provide me with the stimuli needed to get into the flow state

The detective starts with the scanner, which is helpful at times for solving some crimes, which would go unsolved without one. Aside from that I enjoy having an office and a fashionable set of clothing. To be honest I haven't seen anybody do a better job at being a detective when it comes to detecting and solving the crimes.

So you literally admit the reason you play detective is to be security but with a revolver and scanner. Okay, thank you.

Revolver was never mentioned as its irrelevant. Also Detective is Security, read the wiki and get it right.

Wiki also says that detective ISN’T security and that he can’t execute people, so don’t use it either way, ya minge. What does say detective isn’t sec concretely is code- they have access restrictions and no sechuds to say that the arrests themselves aren’t your concern. Detective isn’t supposed to be a direct upgrade over sec officer in the same way that a sec officer isn’t a direct upgrade over a lawyer. Yes the detective has equipment to do sec’s job, but every officer should be rolling for detective on high if he’s just gonna be played as security+. Plenty of times I’ve needed an actual crime investigated, but the detective was jacking off somewhere and I had to call the hos or even ask the hop for access to get the forensic scanner myself. Plenty of times detectives have refused to work at all without sechuds or worse, and on more than one occasion I’ve given the detective sechuds only for them to friendly fire me as they shoot random assistants in the hallway.

Despite all that, restricting detective behaviour is a really iffy idea, especially on lowpop. I think detectives being shit is a perfect IC issue, though one rarely solved.

confused rock wrote:Detective isn’t supposed to be a direct upgrade over sec officer in the same way that a sec officer isn’t a direct upgrade over a lawyer. Yes the detective has equipment to do sec’s job, but every officer should be rolling for detective on high if he’s just gonna be played as security+.

Every sec should be rolling for the Chad HOS as high, because then you can apparently do anything without anybody being able to complain.

Going in-depth meta analysis, figuring out the Jedi Curve and then trying to balance the game around that could be done, but lets face it there are things that are more out of whack than the detective being able to contribute more to the security team. Namely people playing Heads, Scientist or Chemist antags and so on - why would you want to play an assistant traitor, when you could set hop as high and then just be a hop traitor?

confused rock wrote:Plenty of times I’ve needed an actual crime investigated, but the detective was jacking off somewhere and I had to call the hos or even ask the hop for access to get the forensic scanner myself. Plenty of times detectives have refused to work at all without sechuds or worse, and on more than one occasion I’ve given the detective sechuds only for them to friendly fire me as they shoot random assistants in the hallway.

Plenty of times never heard anything over the security radio about help being needed. Also hold up, you used forensics scanner as a non-detective?!! Immersion broken, ONLY THE DETECTIVE CAN USE IT, REEE!!

The same can be said about any other job. I had a warden who gave a criminal 3 minutes for 15 minutes worth of crimes. Sheer incompetence.

Isto reminds me of what the smart and dumb have in common, their posts are enjoyable to read and you feel like you’d be wasting your time to argue against them.

CrazyClown12 wrote:It doesn't change the fact that detective isn't security. Security Officer is security. Head of Security is Security. If there was a role called Security Detective, I am certain that would be a security role.

The detective doesn't start with the same access that security has, and has the same headset as the lawyer, whilst security get bowmans. If you want to play security just join as it.

It’s security>>detective when it’s under the role selection with warden/sec officers. May as well say chemist isn’t medical and robotics aren’t science since they have different tools available to them.

They are certainly encouraged to take a more passive role with their default kit but we’re discussing whether or not deviations are accepted. Your vision aside, there is no reason to disallow such.

If you dislike it, go hos and deny the detective access to more sec gear.

confused rock wrote:Isto reminds me of what the smart and dumb have in common, their posts are enjoyable to read and you feel like you’d be wasting your time to argue against them.

but at least with isto you clearly know what side he's on

DemonFiren wrote:

confused rock wrote:Isto reminds me of what the smart and dumb have in common, their posts are enjoyable to read and you feel like you’d be wasting your time to argue against them.

but at least with isto you clearly know what side he's on

Its like schrödinger's cat, I am delighted and offended at the same time.

Stop mentioning the wiki you chumbii literally any page can be edited and it's not heavily moderated like Wikipedia. We had a lizard player removing the public nudity part of space law to try and win IC arguments so they could run around naked.

The argument that the detective isn't security is stupid. Of course the detective is part of security, that doesn't mean he's a security officer. The warden is part of security too and has even less reason to be making arrests than the detective. Same with the HOS.

I've always thought the hierarchy of who should be making arrests is:

Sec Officer, arrest everyone all the time.
Detective, intervene and arrest when there's ongoing violence. If I see someone breaking windows as detective I don't care enough to arrest them, just report it. If I see someone stab the clown with a spear I'll try to arrest them. Or if the crime is dangerous, like someone breaking into the upload.
HOS, get directly involved when there's a serious threat. Go with officers to fight cults, murdeboning traitors, etc.
Warden, kind of the same thing. Don't leave the brig to fight and arrest outside of major threats to the station when the HOS/officers need backup.

But because we're not hrp these are all guidelines and not rules.

Dax Dupont wrote:We had a lizard player removing the public nudity part of space law to try and win IC arguments so they could run around naked.

fucking source this, it's hilarious if true

DemonFiren wrote:

Dax Dupont wrote:We had a lizard player removing the public nudity part of space law to try and win IC arguments so they could run around naked.

fucking source this, it's hilarious if true

If we don't want detectives to make arrest, put them under the civilian role and remove their brig access. (Move their office again).

They already don't have access to the cell timers or the gulag teleporter.

ITT we ponder about whether anybody should pick the detective and if they do, whether they should be able to actively participate or just alt+tab out and watch funny cat pictures online.

If detective is barred from making any arrests, then it needs to expand on all non-security roles starting with assistants. Make everybody not be able to do anything other than be passive observers and rely on the selected few who are allowed to do anything at all. This would also mean that Forensics Scanner should be only allowed to be used by the detective as it would be their only reason of existing on the station.

Surprised at how it isn't literally every other post comparing this to asking "Does the warden fluff matter?" like sure it's possible for a warden to go around arresting people and sure he's got his loyalty implant but even if he's just leaving the brig a few times that's a few times the brig is left unattended and the complaints and requests go unheard so it just leads to break-ins. If someone is playing warden as just security officer with armory weapons, that'd be utterly disgusting.

also lmao hits-the-wizard actually edited the wiki holy fucking shit

Quick; someone edit the wiki to say isto isnt allowed to play detective!

Or what if we ban liggers from playing detective because they are too stupid to be trusted with a forensic scanner? I'm pretty sure it is more important to isto to be a lizard than a det.

DrunkenMatey wrote:Quick; someone edit the wiki to say isto isnt allowed to play detective!

Or what if we ban liggers from playing detective because they are too stupid to be trusted with a forensic scanner? I'm pretty sure it is more important to isto to be a lizard than a det.

On the one hand its funny, on the other hand its pretty fucked up if you think about it. Try to make a policy, so one player wouldn't be as effective at solving crimes. Meanwhile talking about going higher on the RP scale, while encouraging tiding and other delinquent behaviour.

I mean, i was joking there.

Something to ask yourself though; what is worse in terms of people enjoying the game, people fucking around, or people using any excuse they can to remove people from the round?

DrunkenMatey wrote:I mean, i was joking there.

Something to ask yourself though; what is worse in terms of people enjoying the game, people fucking around, or people using any excuse they can to remove people from the round?

I got it, thats why I said that it was funny on one hand.

I think people fucking around to the point, where they can be removed from the round, then being removed from the round followed by them ahelping to get revenge is pretty much the worst, unless you are saying that it is impossible to enjoy the game without being a delinquent. That one time, when you are legally allowed to cremate somebody and suddenly you are dubbed as "the guy who removes people from the round at any chance".

At this point, I'm just interested to see if when you are playing again you do anything different and if people hate you more/less/thesame and if you get into any more trouble for line-toeing/crossing. I think warning you woulda been enough (im sure you woulda been just as mad about a warning though lol). I am pretty sure if you hadn't demanded a ban on the guy who asked about the situation you wouldn't have even been noted. Oh well.

DrunkenMatey wrote:At this point, I'm just interested to see if when you are playing again you do anything different and if people hate you more/less/thesame and if you get into any more trouble for line-toeing/crossing. I think warning you woulda been enough (im sure you woulda been just as mad about a warning though lol). I am pretty sure if you hadn't demanded a ban on the guy who asked about the situation you wouldn't have even been noted. Oh well.

I am going to play security officer, because its pretty clear that some admins are gunning for me. There was no line-toeing as everything was by the rules. Admin had the option to close the ticket at any point as an IC issue even after being informed that there are rules against ban baiting, but instead chose to have a Nabski moment (no personal beef with Nabski as I never had any personal interactions with him, just naming it like that for relevance).

Speaking of being mad. I was irked about being sniped by some obscure policy, when my intention clearly was not to OOC in IC and it seemed like a case of "lets fuck this player up", because I had seen plenty of "it's x" before that. Besides I am constantly seeing warden's deploy barrier grenades at round start, even though "this be illegal".

I have a fun solution, Why don't we just remove the loyality implant from the detective. This would effectively soft-kick him off the security team and make him more of a consultant instead of an actual member of security. He can still investigate for crimes and shoot bad-guys who wish him harm but now he won't be able to make arrests without providing evidence to security. This also has two fun side effects

1-The detective can be traitor and frame someone for murder via false evidence and security's soft trust of him

2-The detective can focus on doing non-security based cases such as discovering who stole the clowns bikehorn and not get yelled at by tryhards who see him doing something other than antag hunt

even more enjoyable solution for everyone, why don't people just stop crying about going to monopoly jail?

It's less about arresting for me, I don't care if a clown arrests a greytider much less a detective but our rules specifically mentions security several times so it's important if we consider detective security or not as admins.

Security has different protections AND obligations than regular crew members and thus its important we officially recognize where the detective belongs so we know what baseline to use when making administrative actions.

I think a detective can valid the shit out of a greytider breaking into the captain's office near roundstart like the rest of sec for instance.

Note that I mentioned the baseline, everything is situational and nothing happens on a vacuum.

Isto, I don't think there's anything wrong with investigating and snooping out crimes aboard the station with the gusto that you bring to it, but the fact that you gunned down someone and cremated them just because you could isn't going to make you a very fun person to play with. From my experience, when people are more willing to be inclusive with their roles and keep people involved in the round, much more fun and entertaining stories are created for everyone involved. Why not bring them in for questioning, sitting them in the interrogation room, sweating them out by presenting the evidence you have against them? If they're someone that doesn't want anything to do with playing along and they just suicide, then it's the same as if you took them out of the round anyways, and you get to put them on display for everyone to laugh at.

I feel you when you say you like to play your role very effectively and you're proud of it (and it sounds like you do a good job with monitoring and investigating the station for crime), but please try and remember there are alternatives to straight removal/execution at your disposal that allow for everyone to have fun, even if you're completely within your rights as stated by the rules to do so. Giving that person that you catch the chance you explain themselves opens a chance for something to develop, rather than ending the experience for one of the parties involved. That sort of negative experience drives the mentality of the tider I think, that it doesn't really matter what their actions are with others because they're going to just be executed wordlessly anyways, so they might as well live it up. Hopefully those players when shown that there are people that want to include them in their playstyle (and seeing an example of where extending patience with someone leads to more fun) will be less inclined towards behavior that's generally seen as shit.

And for the tiders, realize that treating sec like crap will make them want to treat you like crap. If you're going to play your character in such an abrasive manner, don't be surprised when they have very little patience to hear your reason why you were holding a bloody toolbox near the caved in skull of the clown, or are running around with all access.

Dax Dupont wrote:It's less about arresting for me, I don't care if a clown arrests a greytider much less a detective but our rules specifically mentions security several times so it's important if we consider detective security or not as admins.

Security has different protections AND obligations than regular crew members and thus its important we officially recognize where the detective belongs so we know what baseline to use when making administrative actions.

I think a detective can valid the shit out of a greytider breaking into the captain's office near roundstart like the rest of sec for instance.

So long as detective remains associated with sec in the job selection process, it should be considered sec. This would justify the warden also getting these protections and the lawyer (lol) not.

Cobby wrote:

Dax Dupont wrote:It's less about arresting for me, I don't care if a clown arrests a greytider much less a detective but our rules specifically mentions security several times so it's important if we consider detective security or not as admins.

Security has different protections AND obligations than regular crew members and thus its important we officially recognize where the detective belongs so we know what baseline to use when making administrative actions.

I think a detective can valid the shit out of a greytider breaking into the captain's office near roundstart like the rest of sec for instance.

So long as detective remains associated with sec in the job selection process, it should be considered sec. This would justify the warden also getting these protections and the lawyer (lol) not.

I feel like this is the right course of action but I'd like to solidify this with a headmin ruling.

Since you mentioned lawyer... Playing lawyer when sec decides to pretend you dont exist and just gulag everyone is such cancer.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 56&t=14915

Inconsistent admin ruling at its finest.

Here is what I find confusing. Why do we bother having:

"Rule 1 of the main rules apply to security. The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods."

When we also have all sorts of rules that allow for sec to skip straight to lethals on people who haven't proven dangerous or violent. It is a stupid contradiction that leads to a lot of work for admins.

tldr; start a policy vote on rules you don't personally fancy.

Just kidding, read it all and am baffled. This round was a singular case, where people got cremated. Don't try to remove player agency to protect tiders who are line-toeing by greytiding to the point where they actually could be banned.

B-b-but they a good boy:

12x [2018-12-28 01:20:03.632] ATTACK: Anuv/(Janice Lean) has attacked [�captain's locker] with [fire axe (Wielded)] (Captain's Quarters (164, 127, 2))
[2018-12-28 01:21:56.033] ATTACK: Anuv/(Janice Lean) has thrown the captain's spare ID (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (148, 186, 2))
[2018-12-28 01:21:56.067] ATTACK: Anuv/(Janice Lean) has threw and hit Laz0r/(Thomas Laser) with [captain's spare ID] (NEWHP: 100) (Arrival Shuttle Hallway (148, 186, 2))

Get your priorities straight, the greytide needs to be policied, not security.

Vaina wrote:https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 56&t=14915

Inconsistent admin ruling at its finest.

The complainer was lucky, because BeeSting12 could have pointed out a headmin policy from 2017:

Complainter: Get tools, fuck around in the HoPline, kill ian, i'm set to arrest.

Validity when killing pets - If you perform an action which has zero benefit to you other than making others upset (like killing Ian) I will ban you if you adminhelp when someone kills you. - KorPhaeron

DrunkenMatey wrote:"Rule 1 of the main rules apply to security. The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods.".

Yup yup yup, and this is exactly what happened. Janice was caught using least lethal methods at my disposal, I didn't even harmbaton her, she went into the chimney alive.

Obviously she was shot at before using my service revolver before the final incident, because she was a criminal who had committed capital crimes against the corporation/valid and its not reasonably possible to use baton at range. After I acquired non-lethal means they were exclusively used.

The Endgame:

[2018-12-28 01:39:14.695] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has shot Anuv/(Janice Lean) with [rubbershot pellet] (NEWHP: 57.4) (Departure Lounge (142, 58, 2))
5x [2018-12-28 01:39:54.089] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has stunned Anuv/(Janice Lean) with [police baton] (NEWHP: 57.4) (Chapel Office (130, 54, 2))
[2018-12-28 01:39:59.916] ATTACK: Istoprocent/(Krokodil) has cremated Anuv/(Janice Lean) (NEWHP: 57.4) (Chapel Office (130, 52, 2))

Exactly what Floivan said. Even as an esteemed tider, my top priority is keeping people in the game playing the round with me and only resort to removal if things get REALLY bad. Hell I'll even switch to Captain or AI if people from a previous round were being total cunts with their punishments to keep the next round in check. This style of secshittery is only going to breed more of the really disruptive form of tiding and it's mostly going to be targetted at security.
As you can see from his reply though, you're never going to get through to a player like this who's only game plan is to "win" and "punish the shitters". You're playing for a completely different purpose than this dunce and eventually you're going to be forced into his win/lose game. Just revel in his cries of metagrudging/buddying when you inevitably dunk on him as he tries to shoot you for taking insuls.

Malkraz wrote:Exactly what Floivan said. Even as an esteemed tider, my top priority is keeping people in the game playing the round with me and only resort to removal if things get REALLY bad. Hell I'll even switch to Captain or AI if people from a previous round were being total cunts with their punishments to keep the next round in check. This style of secshittery is only going to breed more of the really disruptive form of tiding and it's mostly going to be targetted at security.
As you can see from his reply though, you're never going to get through to a player like this who's only game plan is to "win" and "punish the shitters". You're playing for a completely different purpose than this dunce and eventually you're going to be forced into his win/lose game. Just revel in his cries of metagrudging/buddying when you inevitably dunk on him as he tries to shoot you for taking insuls.

Obvious bait is obvious.

Why are you tiding in the first place? The game is not meant to be Extended Freeform Tide with no goals.

Also, where is your metabuddy Manley at? Haven't seen him around.

I rest my case

let's ban this VALID HUNTING lizard so he stops ruining the pinacle ot /tg/ roleplay: breaking into cap office to get dat all access

teepeepee wrote:let's ban this VALID HUNTING lizard so he stops ruining the pinacle ot /tg/ roleplay: breaking into cap office to get dat all access

If they didn't instantly go to round removal, this thread wouldn't exist though.



This will only be a further growing problem, so I think the real Policy Discussion is -


SHOULD ROUND REMOVAL CONTINUE TO BE THE FIRST OPTION TO GO TO? EVEN WHEN SOMEONE HASN'T TAKEN ANY LETHAL ACTIONS YET?

THIS IS NOT HOW HAMMURABI'S CODE WORKS.