/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Or at least ban admins from viewing it. It's a fucking mess 24/7 and makes me want to scrub my eyes with steel wool. Can't you people go to your meta-discords to jerk each other off over politics?

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28261

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 53&t=27500

If you're an admin I implore you to take one for the team and nuke this channel. I'll personally gobble your glizzy if you do.

i apologize for any offense i may have caused and i was not aware these things had happened

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25785191 - "Political Detox Week – No politics on [Hacker News] for one week (2016)"

dang 3 hours ago [–]

It made things worse and we ended the experiment after a couple days. I don't have links handy right now but may try to dig them up later. It turns out that there's no faster way to politicize everything than to try something that simplistic. Wherever the optimum is for regulating the intense pressures HN is under around this, it's in a much less obvious place.

Here is a fun read: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21607844

A lot of what they say doesn't fully apply to a site thats not hacker news, but still a fun read.

cacogen wrote:

Qustinnus wrote:if the problem is that we can't ban it because people would do it somewhere else anyways we should open an erp channel so people dont erp in the other channels.

Politics affects everyone. ERP is something only a certain amount of people engage with. It's better for them and everyone else if it's kept private. Talking about what's happening in the world shouldn't be banned if it happens to be political.

This whole thing is an effort to stop bad politics shitting up the place or taking root in an echo chamber. But no one can agree on how to define it so it can be done.

okay but neither of those things need to be prevented with a channel they can both just be banned with a no politics rule.

part of the problem with outright banning politics is that people tend to disagree on what is political to begin with and it devolves into semantics
ERP is just virtual sex which has no definitional confusion

maybe we should ban people that argue semantics for ages

Qustinnus wrote:maybe we should ban people that argue semantics for ages

>person says something that one admin thinks is political
>admin bans that person
>admin 2 thinks it was not political and that the first admin imposed their own semantic definition of "political discussion" in making that ban
>admin 2 bans admin 1 for semantics and then themselves
>mutual destruction is assured
maybe this is not such a bad idea

only one admin will remain; an enlightened centrist whos only dream is to just, grill.

Qustinnus wrote:

cacogen wrote:

Qustinnus wrote:if the problem is that we can't ban it because people would do it somewhere else anyways we should open an erp channel so people dont erp in the other channels.

Politics affects everyone. ERP is something only a certain amount of people engage with. It's better for them and everyone else if it's kept private. Talking about what's happening in the world shouldn't be banned if it happens to be political.

This whole thing is an effort to stop bad politics shitting up the place or taking root in an echo chamber. But no one can agree on how to define it so it can be done.

okay but neither of those things need to be prevented with a channel they can both just be banned with a no politics rule.

Why throw the baby out with the bath water by banning conversation about everything political, even it's just recent events?

The problem is idiots and people acting in bad faith shitting up the place with exclusionary, fringe views they promote through misinformation and emotional manipulation. Why not just ban people who promote harmful views or act in an overly disruptive manner?

The false equivalency between regular political discussion and /pol/ just results in platforms that are trying to facilitate healthy discussion getting taken advantage of. Here we're talking about banning discussion of all things political implicitly to prevent /pol/ taking root and being disruptive.

4chan has been overrun with off-topic political shitposting, the vast majority of which is propaganda promoting alt-right views. It's not a matter of a difference of opinion. It's the site being taken advantage of while the administration does very little to solve it.

But we don't have much of a problem with that here from what I've seen. Servers like Hippie are more welcoming to the dumb and malicious. But if political discussion in its current state is a problem that needs to be addressed, solve it by identifying the problems and punishing the people causing them.

everything is political, the real problem is defining politics like Gamers do, which is "everything I don't like"

Yeah I think it’s too hard to define politics. If we ban it it’ll still crop up and will just lead to unfair reinforcement of anti politics rules. People want to talk about it and nothing in the channel seems nearly as egregious as that which could be found in admin free hut. Also this thread is bad faith and clearly biased lol.

cacogen wrote:

Qustinnus wrote:

cacogen wrote:

Qustinnus wrote:if the problem is that we can't ban it because people would do it somewhere else anyways we should open an erp channel so people dont erp in the other channels.

Politics affects everyone. ERP is something only a certain amount of people engage with. It's better for them and everyone else if it's kept private. Talking about what's happening in the world shouldn't be banned if it happens to be political.

This whole thing is an effort to stop bad politics shitting up the place or taking root in an echo chamber. But no one can agree on how to define it so it can be done.

okay but neither of those things need to be prevented with a channel they can both just be banned with a no politics rule.

Why throw the baby out with the bath water by banning conversation about everything political, even it's just recent events?

The problem is idiots and people acting in bad faith shitting up the place with exclusionary, fringe views they promote through misinformation and emotional manipulation. Why not just ban people who promote harmful views or act in an overly disruptive manner?

The false equivalency between regular political discussion and /pol/ just results in platforms that are trying to facilitate healthy discussion getting taken advantage of. Here we're talking about banning discussion of all things political implicitly to prevent /pol/ taking root and being disruptive.

4chan has been overrun with off-topic political shitposting, the vast majority of which is propaganda promoting alt-right views. It's not a matter of a difference of opinion. It's the site being taken advantage of while the administration does very little to solve it.

But we don't have much of a problem with that here from what I've seen. Servers like Hippie are more welcoming to the dumb and malicious. But if political discussion in its current state is a problem that needs to be addressed, solve it by identifying the problems and punishing the people causing them.

I think Rule 11 has done a lot to reduce the problem of /pol/ infiltrating politics

I haven't read the rules

Remove it for a week, test the waters, and if it doesn't work just add it back in

Just ask them to take it to the containment Discord if it starts getting disruptive or heated and mute them if they don't.

I'm of the mind that #politics-containment is active politically because the existence of the channel enables political discourse, instead of acting solely as a place it's contained to. On the other hand, most of the time it serves to act as a second shit-posting channel. A good point to make is that the discourse and the usual suspects rarely leak outside of the channel. Most of the dregs got slaughtered by the anti-bigotry law, so the toxic factor really has been neutered to what I would personally consider as a manageable standard.

Honestly, it doesn't make a lick of sense to outright delete the channel on a whim. The exchange's cost vs benefit is skewed; If folks are right over it being harder to police politics, you traded a bargain bin containment channel for more moderation woes and headache-inducing enforcement farces. If they're wrong, the channel is deleted and everyone moves to #shitposts-general, with the political flavoring dissolving in the mix. The only thing being stood to gain here is that a select few no longer are troubled by the existence of politically-charged bickering.

IkeTG wrote:I'm of the mind that #politics-containment is active politically because the existence of the channel enables political discourse, instead of acting solely as a place it's contained to.

Yeah, this is a thing about containment channels. You create them to get some bullshit out of the main channel, but then the fact that they exist encourages talking about the bullshit you created them to contain.

This is a thing that happened on SA back in the mid-2000s, they created a drugs subforum to get all the fuckin stoner posts out of general, and ended up with a subforum where people were talking about taking literal crack and bizzare unknown benzos they ordered over the internet, like "trip report" threads where someone would ingest some mystery powder and say what happened, there was one where people were taking some shit then coming back like three days later like "I have no memory of what happened but I lost my job and my girlfriend broke up with me and my car is wrecked" and people responding like THAT SOUNDS GREAT WHERE DO I GET SOME
it was fucking surreal man and it was all because they didn't want "weed lmao" in main

Screemonster wrote:

IkeTG wrote:I'm of the mind that #politics-containment is active politically because the existence of the channel enables political discourse, instead of acting solely as a place it's contained to.

Yeah, this is a thing about containment channels. You create them to get some bullshit out of the main channel, but then the fact that they exist encourages talking about the bullshit you created them to contain.

Ok, but it's still in the "containment channel". So long as it's hidden away and you don't have to go in if you don't want, why do you care?

I don't really know enough about the concept of housing undesirable behaviour in a certain area of a community to prevent it becoming commonplace but I know a few years after its creation /pol/ started to colonise other boards and now it's the norm on 4chan. But I think this server has been trending away from 4chan politically since it began so it may not be an issue here. Hopefully that trend doesn't end up at a tumblr or ResetEra place.

cacogen wrote:I don't really know enough about the concept of housing undesirable behaviour in a certain area of a community to prevent it becoming commonplace but I know a few years after its creation /pol/ started to colonise other boards and now it's the norm on 4chan. But I think this server has been trending away from 4chan politically since it began so it may not be an issue here. Hopefully that trend doesn't end up at a tumblr or ResetEra place.

/pol/'s colonisation of the other 4chan boards is not due to them being a containment board, but because of a interacting series of factors including low moderation, filtering for /pol/itical radicals in 4chan's userbase and coordinated efforts by /pol/ to spread their political influence. In this essay I will argue

Screemonster wrote: Yeah, this is a thing about containment channels. You create them to get some bullshit out of the main channel, but then the fact that they exist encourages talking about the bullshit you created them to contain.

So your issue with politics containment is shitposters like swept will use them as a wedge to get attention and stir drama. Maybe remove the shitposter?

Screemonster wrote: This is a thing that happened on SA back in the mid-2000s, they created a drugs subforum to get all the fuckin stoner posts out of general, and ended up with a subforum where people were talking about taking literal crack and bizzare unknown benzos they ordered over the internet, like "trip report" threads where someone would ingest some mystery powder and say what happened, there was one where people were taking some shit then coming back like three days later like "I have no memory of what happened but I lost my job and my girlfriend broke up with me and my car is wrecked" and people responding like THAT SOUNDS GREAT WHERE DO I GET SOME
it was fucking surreal man and it was all because they didn't want "weed lmao" in main

Yeah but politics containment isn't getting more extreme over time. If anything the extreme people are getting filtered out as they realize it isn't a place for them to nazipost/chinapost and the channel is getting more moderate over time. I think that's going to be the case when we've clearly expressed a hard limit (the bigotry rule) and the channel is frequently moderate by multiple admins and discord jannies.

The only reason this discussion channel wasn't removed ages ago is because people are tempted to push their ideas on others that have game master level or higher power. Honestly this discussion board no matter how you look at it, brings more negative than positive. People are too far left or right which means they'll never see eye to eye. The only purpose this board serves isn't to bring people together, but to let people rants and rave at each other until someone has to throw more fuel in the fire. It should either be deleted or there needs to be a place for left wingers, right wingers, and centralist (3 political boards exclusive to themselves).

Saege Tilth wrote:The only reason this discussion channel wasn't removed ages ago is because people are tempted to push their ideas on others that have game master level or higher power. Honestly this discussion board no matter how you look at it, brings more negative than positive. People are too far left or right which means they'll never see eye to eye. The only purpose this board serves isn't to bring people together, but to let people rants and rave at each other until someone has to throw more fuel in the fire. It should either be deleted or there needs to be a place for left wingers, right wingers, and centralist (3 political boards exclusive to themselves).

Turning them into echo chambers is literally how you get extremism have you learned nothing from the last decade

Screemonster wrote: This is a thing that happened on SA back in the mid-2000s, they created a drugs subforum to get all the fuckin stoner posts out of general, and ended up with a subforum where people were talking about taking literal crack and bizzare unknown benzos they ordered over the internet, like "trip report" threads where someone would ingest some mystery powder and say what happened, there was one where people were taking some shit then coming back like three days later like "I have no memory of what happened but I lost my job and my girlfriend broke up with me and my car is wrecked" and people responding like THAT SOUNDS GREAT WHERE DO I GET SOME
it was fucking surreal man and it was all because they didn't want "weed lmao" in main

Remember when they temporarily renamed "The Crackhead Clubhouse" to "The Getting High Teepee?"

That was a fun week.

capn_monkeypaw wrote:

Screemonster wrote: This is a thing that happened on SA back in the mid-2000s, they created a drugs subforum to get all the fuckin stoner posts out of general, and ended up with a subforum where people were talking about taking literal crack and bizzare unknown benzos they ordered over the internet, like "trip report" threads where someone would ingest some mystery powder and say what happened, there was one where people were taking some shit then coming back like three days later like "I have no memory of what happened but I lost my job and my girlfriend broke up with me and my car is wrecked" and people responding like THAT SOUNDS GREAT WHERE DO I GET SOME
it was fucking surreal man and it was all because they didn't want "weed lmao" in main

Remember when they temporarily renamed "The Crackhead Clubhouse" to "The Getting High Teepee?"

That was a fun week.

I think I missed that one, I never particularly paid attention to it other than when crazy shit was going on like the joose thing

Stickymayhem wrote:

cacogen wrote:I don't really know enough about the concept of housing undesirable behaviour in a certain area of a community to prevent it becoming commonplace but I know a few years after its creation /pol/ started to colonise other boards and now it's the norm on 4chan. But I think this server has been trending away from 4chan politically since it began so it may not be an issue here. Hopefully that trend doesn't end up at a tumblr or ResetEra place.

/pol/'s colonisation of the other 4chan boards is not due to them being a containment board, but because of a interacting series of factors including low moderation, filtering for /pol/itical radicals in 4chan's userbase and coordinated efforts by /pol/ to spread their political influence. In this essay I will argue

Yeah, that's true. Their ability to cause disruption here will be based on the consistency and biases of the admins.

Politics needs its own category with specific topics about current events and not just people who seem to say everything is debunked in seconds yet have never taken the time to discuss it before hand with anybody. The mods are clearly bias against right wingers, primarily the American kind. It's a cultural prejudice perpetuated by ignorance from narcissist and psychopaths who had been indoctrinated to be out of touch with anybody that doesn't have it how they have it. You're attacking something that hurts nobody except your feelings. Politics needs its own category, not to be horded by the aristocracy.

This thread got a bit derailed, and I think everyone has said their piece on the topic. Going to lock for now.