/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:47 pm**

Bottom post of the previous page:

Pick a normal name. You must have a first name and a last name (e.g John Smith). You must not use honorifics or nick names (E.g. Dr Greg House or Jack "Johnny" Johnson), and must be spelt fully with capitals and no shortenings (e.g. NOT J Hoffman or jaiden mallow). Exceptions to this are Eats-The-Lemons format of Lizard names, Clown, Mime, Silicon, Wizard and Nuke Op names. References are still allowed, but try to be original.

Posted: **Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:39 pm**

Coders and administrators are the curators of the game experience. We do things that may not be popular (runspeed change, trustworthy sec) because we think it's the best direction for the server. We are generally right.

I like the subtle implications that things you don't like are the work of "new" admins when they're all stamped with HBL's seal of approval.

Posted: **Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:13 pm**

HBL isnt really old and hes definitely not reputable
unlike runspeed changes and no antags in sec this has no bearing on the game other than being a textbook example of fun policing

Posted: **Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:20 am**

why is a stricter name policy necessary, hornygranny?

Posted: **Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:19 pm**

Weird and wacky names contribute to the atmosphere that is ss13.

Literally, I had a giggle in my first month of playing ss13 when a guy named "icepicker murderboner" with a mining hardsuit murdered me in maint and dragged me out into space, leaving a bloody pickaxe on top of my dead body.

Like, what is the reason for this naming policy? I have read over half of this thread and cannot really see a reason why besides the fact that some names are "silly". I am really trying to understand it. And yeah, there is already a rule over incredibly stupid names, like Adolf Hitler, being valid salad to all crew members.

Posted: **Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:31 pm**

Hornygranny wrote:We are generally right.

Generally right, but not 100%. Not all the time.

I understand that sometimes you gotta make drastic changes that a lot of people aren't going to like in the hopes that they'll see the bigger picture and the net gain will outweigh the immediate confusion and anger.

So where's the net gain here? How does making new rules for people's names benefit everyone?

It doesn't. It favoritism for one type of player over another.

Consider the opposite: what if we forced everyone to have goofy names?

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:59 am**

a real name as per 21st century mainstream western society standards with allowances for puns and ultimately subjectively determined by the admins online?

a real name as per 500 years into the future where we have no idea how culture and society turn out, in a station where nothing makes sense?

a real name as per where the admin is standing on the autism spectrum?

still waiting on an answer here as the wiki rules page hasn't changed so I'm assuming any time an admin bwoinks someone about a name that doesn't break the rules, it's because the admin wanted to use rule 0. Keep in mind here that the example provided on the rules page is, 'an obviously immersion breaking moniker like 'xenohunter360''. So currently unacceptable names are cod-tier usernames and the like.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:03 am**

imblyings wrote:-snip-

This was pasted two pages ago when I was asking a similar question regarding what is actually going on:

http://privatepaste.com/0b77c1c363

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 12:25 pm**

Thanks for the link, although it doesn't shed much light at all on what a real name is, other than no numbers or creepy names, the examples being Gib Crew Operative #4 or Tickles the Child Molestor

I also don't know why Saegrimr got hung up on the 'Spoogles Von Cumqueets' name. It has a first and last name and while it's a bit odd, there is currently nothing in the rules stating how goofy or different from 21st century society names are allowed to be. Keep in mind here that Dick Gaylord or Richard Gaylord is a real name in RL. Saegrimr in particularly seems to have his own unwritten definition of what constitutes a proper name and he's been forcing it upon the server as a trial or newly promoted admin, either one. This is a shit thing to do as an admin.

At this point, I don't really care about the name policy, a name means shit all relatively to a certain extent. I'm trying to find out why adminbus has made no attempt, maybe apart from you anon3, to give the playerbase a reasonable chance to figure out how to follow a rule that isn't written down and is very arbitrary in nature.

Like really, to Saegrimr or any other admin, why not come into this thread and finally let us know what you think a real name is. And while you're at it, why not explain why enforcing this will benefit the server or even better, why enforcing an unwritten policy benefits the server. Or is SoS content with his admins enforcing an unwritten policy that different admins will approach differently.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:05 pm**

We'll never know what a "real" name is

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:38 pm**

imblyings wrote:enforcing an unwritten policy that different admins will approach differently.

You just described 90% of server policy.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:52 pm**

I'm neutral on the matter. I just enforce policy and slaughter the Jewish and whatever else my commanding officers demand.

I do find it kind of ludicrous that the number of awful names from people who know better has gone up since this thread went up. Those kind of people deserve the punishments.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:16 pm**

imblyings wrote:I also don't know why Saegrimr got hung up on the 'Spoogles Von Cumqueets' name.
--
Saegrimr in particularly seems to have his own unwritten definition of what constitutes a proper name and he's been forcing it upon the server as a trial or newly promoted admin, either one. This is a shit thing to do as an admin.

I didn't bring up Spoogles there, I was just investigating who he was. The ~server host~ asked if it was a clown or mime, and it wasn't.
I'm also (SUPRISE!) siding with a slightly more lenient name policy than what is being suggested, mainly in the area of mononames and nicknames so long as theres a formal name to referenced in there. I'm just the person most likely to confront you about your name being "Shit McStorm" or "Big Guy" since I check the names list at roundstart.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:43 pm**

yes that's nice but

what is a real name

You weren't only investigating who he was, unless you decided not to after saying this.

<Saegrimr> Nope, i'll tell him to change it, I noticed it last round and tried to find out, his first connection to the server is today and he's definitely not new.

If a name is being changed then the name must not be acceptable for you, which means there is a standard for names you follow that is currently not on the rules page of the wiki, meaning there is unwritten policy.

I don't like unwritten policies, anyone with half a brain doesn't like unwritten policies, I and many others would like it if you could help us with making this a more written-down policy, even if it's just a post in this forum.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:04 pm**

But then people would know what names are acceptable, and ride right on the line between acceptable and not acceptable, and then how are the admins supposed to get their sperg on?

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:10 pm**

I admit I just want mononames banned to troll iteq anyway since I haven't even seen any mononame users since Ye Olde Reisyn Days but the example name involved in that incident (Spoogles Von Cumqueets) passes the line of normal non-clown/mime names because it's intentionally sexual without being even a little subtle about it and if you find blatant sex words funny I mean cool but some other people might not and try to roleplay even a little sometimes

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:48 pm**

imblyings wrote:You weren't only investigating who he was, unless you decided not to after saying this.

The reason I was investigating is because the round previous he'd gotten gibbed, and while the shuttle was docking I didn't have enough time to check what his specific job was. If it was a clown, whatever.

imblyings wrote:If a name is being changed then the name must not be acceptable for you, which means there is a standard for names you follow that is currently not on the rules page of the wiki, meaning there is unwritten policy.

There's a lot of things that are "unwritten policies". Many of them are just "we haven't gotten around to changing the rule page" for whatever reason.
The rest, as other admins have put it..

It is literally not possible to make rules for every situation in this game. Not just that we don't want to, it is not possible. Try, sometime, for your own amusement, to think up how many rules you'd need to get it all out there. That's why we have Rule 1, don't be an asshole. Things are always going to be in the grey area, that's why we have admins here to make rulings and make things clear.

Obviously the naming policy isn't straying into that "being a dick" territory which is usually invoked for people acting like complete jackasses who turn around with DIN DO NUFFIN, but think about how huge a list of all the little rules and shit would be for specific things you can do in-game.

Now imagine trying to make a similar list of "Approved word list for naming".

imblyings wrote:what is a real name

A miserable little pile of letters. If you can't be a least a bit creative in parodying to make it sound like a plausible name, have a click at the random name button. If you want your name to be Genitals, expect to get a bwoink. Jenna Tools, Gen Atole, Janet Ules? Now we're on the right track.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:29 pm**

I don't care that you were investigating or why you were, I care that you said you were going to change it.

>the wiki page hasn't been updated

that's a poor excuse. Perhaps rules or policies should only be enforced until someone makes the effort to put the rule on the wiki.

>but think about how huge a list of all the little rules and shit would be for specific things you can do in-game.

is not a relevant excuse. What you are trying to say is that there are too many instances of what can constitute 'being a dick' to put into policy, which is by itself, a reasonable statement since these many and varied instances only have action taken against them if they violate written policy. Current name policy however, allows names that the unwritten policy does not. It is not accurate to apply the 'too many instances to write down' argument to this because you are using entirely different rules to judge names by.

>make it sound like a plausible name

only begs the question, what is a plausible name, which begs the question, what is a real name. What standards are we holding the word 'plausible' to? 21st century mainstream western society standards with allowances for puns? 26th century crazy space station standards? because it's plausible for a 17yo female nurse in SS13 to be a highly trained combat expert fighting off aliens and paramilitary raiders.

If you want to say 21st western society mainstream standards with allowances for puns then that's completely and totally fine but I'd rather you say that or some other equally consistent and reliable definition for an acceptable name and then put that on the rules wiki page.

>paprika
>roleplay

come on, unless the name has numbers in it or it's blatantly offensive like Adolf Hitler, what is so intrinsically harmful about a silly name to 'roleplay'. Unless you mean everybody has their own little idea of what the context of the station is and everybody likes it when the characters of other people act in tune with their ideas of how things should be.

also, we're an 18+ server presumably. The point isn't that blatant sex words are funny or not and I'm almost taking the devil's advocate position here, you'd think people would be mature enough to not care or not be offended about the word 'cum'. It doesn't hurt you. If the person with the name makes a bunch of shitty jokes about his name IC then sure, there's a problem, but the name by itself shouldn't hurt anyone mature.

Posted: **Thu Oct 09, 2014 10:53 pm**

captain sawrge wrote:
Hibbles wrote:Basically this is stuff we mostly-enforced already, but it's good to have it down. There's been a noticeable rise lately in retarded names, and we're going to start putting a stop to it.

Hibbles wrote: Lately there's been rising tides of You Don't Enjoy The Game Like I Do Or Like What I Like Therefore You're Bad; see recent pushes for Correct RP Procedures being enforced more heavily. That's not what /tg/ should be about IMO. We have a large, diverse community of people who like different parts of the game, and pretending only one way is valid is absurd.

LOL nice

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:16 am**

Dick Meacock is a totally legit name right?

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:46 am**

Spoiler:

so yes

admins need to

>post an actual definition of what constitutes an acceptable name according to their new standards agreed upon in adminbus in the rules wiki page

and if they are so kind as to do the following,

>explain what benefits they think will lead from changing name policy from no creepy, no immersion breaking (e.g. no numbers for humans), to whatever their yet-to-be written policy is.

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:59 am**

Bibliodewangus wrote:
captain sawrge wrote:
Hibbles wrote:Basically this is stuff we mostly-enforced already, but it's good to have it down. There's been a noticeable rise lately in retarded names, and we're going to start putting a stop to it.

Hibbles wrote: Lately there's been rising tides of You Don't Enjoy The Game Like I Do Or Like What I Like Therefore You're Bad; see recent pushes for Correct RP Procedures being enforced more heavily. That's not what /tg/ should be about IMO. We have a large, diverse community of people who like different parts of the game, and pretending only one way is valid is absurd.
LOL nice

Shitty names were never allowed.

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:38 am**

Since I posted it a page ago and didn't get a reply, I would like to hear why admins feel it necessary to crack down on "shitty names."

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:52 am**

So can clowns still be named Ayy Lmao?

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:55 am**

AFAIK Clowns, Mimes and antags with the ability to chose their name (Wiz, Ops, Ninja, etc) are allowed to pretty much chose any name they want barring blatantly racist names.

However this is also inconsistent. One time as a Wizard I chose "Its the fucking Wizard" as my name, one time it was fine yet another time I got warned by a admin not to do it again. Another time as Wizard I simply chose "Steelpoint" as my name and nothing came of it.

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:43 pm**

The policy has been officially added to the rules page, the version we went with is the one that got the most votes. Mononames are still allowed.

You guys are over complicating this really, very little is actually changeling here. The only real requirement is that it needs to at least somewhat sound like something you'd hear if you went out on the street and asked someone what their name is. Don't name yourself after objects, don't use vulgarity in your name ie "john mcfaggot" or "fucker mcfuckface", and don't use gibberish like dazfdfjqw fdsakjlf. If you're using an unreasonable name, you'll probably know. The amount of people that are going to be effected by this is actually pretty low. We aren't going to be name nazis. The sole point of the policy is to increase immersion just a bit, and we wouldn't even be enacting this policy at all if the majority of people were against it. The poll shows that people DO want some amount of policing over names, even just a light amount.

@imblyings that actually has nothing to do with this policy, you were running around with the name "syndicate cyborg" which is metagamey and confusing. It's identical to naming yourself waffleco operative or something stupid like that. Also, it's pretty hard for me to take you seriously at all when it's pretty clear you've been picking stupid names lately just so you can push the policy and create problems for yourself. This isn't 2011, no one is going to give a shit about you or give you an inch if you try to do some in game public demonstration about your spacemen rights.

@steelpoint "Its the fucking Wizard" sounds perfectly fine to me for a wizard, they are silly arcane fucks that don't give a shit about the laws of the universe, basically what happens when a clown gets godlike powers. I will bring up the wizard names for discussion in adminbus.

Update on the wizard names thing after asking HBL: wizard names are literally anything goes, "Its the fucking Wizard" is fine.

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:59 pm**

elyina wrote:You guys are over complicating this really, very little is actually changeling here.

I see what you did there.

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:56 pm**

elyina wrote:We admins are over complicating this really. The name policy was already fine and it didn't bother anyone.

Corrected for accuracy.

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 9:21 pm**

Steelpoint wrote:AFAIK Clowns, Mimes and antags with the ability to chose their name (Wiz, Ops, Ninja, etc) are allowed to pretty much chose any name they want barring blatantly racist names.

However this is also inconsistent. One time as a Wizard I chose "Its the fucking Wizard" as my name, one time it was fine yet another time I got warned by a admin not to do it again. Another time as Wizard I simply chose "Steelpoint" as my name and nothing came of it.

AIs can, too. Same for cyborgs.

So if you insist you need to be named "AYY LMAO" in all caps....

Posted: **Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:50 pm**

If you do that I'll hit the nuclear explosion button.

Not the one that fakes a nuclear explosion with the cut-scene, I mean the one that really does it.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:46 am**

@imblyings that actually has nothing to do with this policy, you were running around with the name "syndicate cyborg" which is metagamey and confusing. It's identical to naming yourself waffleco operative or something stupid like that. Also, it's pretty hard for me to take you seriously at all when it's pretty clear you've been picking stupid names lately just so you can push the policy and create problems for yourself. This isn't 2011, no one is going to give a shit about you or give you an inch if you try to do some in game public demonstration about your spacemen rights.

>metagamey or confusing

It's not metagaming, there are no limits to IC knowledge of antags.

It's not confusing, nobody was confused, nobody was confused the previous times I had played with that name, nobody was confused the previous times other people had played with that name. Elyina, could you please not insult the playerbase by insinuating that it's not smart enough to figure out whether a person is actually a syndie borg or not. And like I mentioned, even if a person was dumb enough to confuse me for a borg, all I have to do is not fight back if they think I'm valid and just explain it or hide.

>when it's pretty clear you've been picking stupid names lately

don't make yourself look dumb either. Syndicate Cyborg-666 and Singulo Food are names I've used months ago with no problem. There is nothing intrinsically detrimental to the round experience of others about those names, please don't pretend or strawman otherwise.

>just so you can push the policy and create problems for yourself. This isn't 2011, no one is going to give a shit about you or give you an inch if you try to do some in game public demonstration about your spacemen rights.

Stop right there, it took me not bending over in adminpms and constant bitching on the forums to push you lot into actually writing down policy instead of acting all smarmy about unwritten policy no one know anything about. Really, was adminbus really going to put something in the wiki if I hadn't mentioned it again in adminpms yesterday? Probably fucking not. Don't even begin to paint me as someone causing trouble, the only reason I've posted what I've posted and said what I've said because adminbus was fucking up and nearly no one was doing anything about it. Instead of collaborating with players to build a clear definition of what constituted an acceptable name in public or at least posting an adminbus-discussed definition in the rules wiki and then enforcing that policy, you lot decided to make up one in secret and then enforce it without ever having made the rules public.

Great admin behaviour from this issue, I'm impressed. Elyina, you're a game master. You should have known better. HBL, I don't hate you but you're a headmin, you should cracked down on this long ago.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:11 am**

our new name policy wrote:Pick a normal name. You must not use honorifics or nick names (E.g. Dr Greg House or Jack "Johnny" Johnson), and must be spelt fully with capitals and no shortenings (e.g. NOT J Hoffman or jaiden mallow). Exceptions to this are Eats-The-Lemons format of Lizard names, Clown, Mime, Silicon, Wizard and Nuke Op names. References are still allowed, but try to be original.

top clapping to Elyina and the rest of adminbus who were involved in making this new policy.

It's shit. None of it stops me from using Syndicate Cyborg-666 as a name and in fact an admin just posted with the implication that I can. And again, what is a normal name again? You fail to define it in the policy. You thankfully did in this thread, Elyina, it's just a fucking shame that you think you don't need to do it for the actual rules page on the wiki. What,

The only real requirement is that it needs to at least somewhat sound like something you'd hear if you went out on the street and asked someone what their name is.

Ah okay, so what you've implied and what I've outright stated so many fucking times in the hope that admins would pick it up and use it, is that names are now held to the context of 21st century mainstream western society standards. Because that is a brilliantly clear and reliable standard.

And this leads to a point I've been meaning to make for some time.

I had mentioned in the schizo RP policies thread, the necessity of a common context in which to determine acceptable characters or character actions. And Elyina thought it would be too complicated and disregarded it. It's really fucking funny now then because Elyina is doing a shittier version of what I said would be needed, that is, character names must fall within the context of a 21st century mainstream western society.

All this clusterfuck, to achieve a thing I suggested months ago.

bravo adminbus

instead of damage control or hurrdurf imblyings ur wrong, how about silently fixing your policy to make it fully represent the unwritten policy that's been enforced lately and then making sure you don't make this mistake again.

one more edit, because it needs to be said.

I still don't see a thread of justification as to why this policy change was needed. So far, it's been MY IDEA OF FUN IS RIGHT.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:53 am**

imblyings wrote:.

Is this another Tonto alt? Jesus christ man. Two posts of literally repeating "I don't like the policy." Everyone gets it already. You seem to be under some impression that retarded things like "cyborg-666" is a real name. That's pretty damn special.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:16 am**

Using well known game terms in your name is bad for business. You're the only person who fails to see why it's a terrible idea. There's a classic example of a certain someone who for a while tried to play the game with a character named "Floor Tile", so whenever a player moused over him they had no way of knowing at a glance if they were actually selecting his character or a piece of terrain.

Naming yourself "Syndicate Cyborg" is similarly shitty for the part of the game where it's still a game people are trying to play, in addition to offending people's RP immersion sensibilities. It causes needless confusion when people are trying to communicate about threats over the radio. It interrupts players trying to interact in a meaningful way when an otherwise harmless borg named after a known terrorist outfit wanders into the room.

Meta names are one of the few examples of a name I would agree should be stricken from the list because it either confers an in-game advantage or gives others an extra hurdle or disadvantage when trying to play.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:06 am**

>cedarbridge

you missed the point, congrats. Certain admins were fine with enforcing an unwritten policy and would have most likely continued to do so unless certain events happened. And afterwards, certain admins put in a policy that still doesn't reflect what standards they're holding names to.

It's not about the names themselves, it's about getting some sort of consistency and openness on the rules adminbus want to enforce. If you don't understand this, read the thread again. If you do understand this, you'll realize just how this issue has demonstrated the need for adminbus to ensure that policies they wish to enforce are clearly stated and defined as best as they can in a public place first.

edit- There is the possibility you think I said syndicate cyborg-666 was a real name for a human, in which case I seriously hope you didn't think that.

>anon3

>did naming myself syndicate cyborg-666 give me an ingame advantage.
no. That's a categorical no. Your example of 'floor tile' would be OOC in IC, which is unrelated to the syndie borg 666 name.
> It causes needless confusion
I'd ask you to look over logs to see if anyone was confused. In fact after several rounds of using that name over several months, only one player has ever been confused and even then, it was another borg who wasn't sure if it was a joke or not and eventually gave up. One player. Out of hours and hours of gameplay. In which nothing of lasting harm happened.
>interrupts players trying to interact in a meaningful way
Is a strawman.

I want to see some example adminhelps from people who had their 'meaningful' interactions disturbed. Quite literally nothing changes when I use names like syndicate cyborg-666. People see me, pet me, maybe tell me to open a door, maybe drag me somewhere before I run off. As the round progresses, people treat me just as they would treat me as any other borg. In fact, the only sort of people who've had any problem with my character is admins, unless non-admin players have been adminhelping about my name without me knowing.

>Meta names
It's not meta. Meta or metagaming is the use of knowledge not obtained via IC means. There is no limit on IC knowledge and if everyone can shout NUKE OPS when they see red suits, borgs can most definitely know about syndicate borg names.

> it either confers an in-game advantage or gives others an extra hurdle or disadvantage when trying to play.
As I've explained above

it does not give me an in-game advantage

it does not disadvantage others

If you or anyone else would be so kind as to provide an actual example of how it would give me an advantage or how it would disadvantage someone, I will completely understand but as far as things go, it does neither.

Posted: **Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:47 am**

imblyings wrote:>did naming myself syndicate cyborg-666 give me an ingame advantage.
no. That's a categorical no. Your example of 'floor tile' would be OOC in IC, which is unrelated to the syndie borg 666 name.
> It causes needless confusion
I'd ask you to look over logs to see if anyone was confused. In fact after several rounds of using that name over several months, only one player has ever been confused and even then, it was another borg who wasn't sure if it was a joke or not and eventually gave up. One player. Out of hours and hours of gameplay. In which nothing of lasting harm happened.
>interrupts players trying to interact in a meaningful way
Is a strawman.

It's the equivalent of naming yourself Malf Murderbot. People are either going to mistakenly assume you're part of a badmin event and genuinely rogue, or falsely assume he can't possibly be rogue because "it's a joke, right?". I know this because I have legit observed a Roboticist name a borg that, and then later on in the round the AI was one-human'ed and it caused a lot of angry confusion. It's baiting conflict.

Maybe you're not familiar with it, but there's a Syndicate Borg nuke ops can buy (unless it's been removed in the last two months?) that's pretty robust. Naming yourself after one is purposely misleading players as to the nature of what you're actually playing and whether you're part of a specific traitor type or not.

If an actual Syndicate Borg were to arrive on the station, it would cause needless confusion for everyone else trying to tell you two apart, especially for players who are unfamiliar with the game and don't know to tell you apart by color. It needlessly complicates something that could easily be solved by you having any other name.

But hey maybe people are used to you by now and know better. So I'll put it this way:
If you go on naming yourself that I wont personally care. But if anybody randomly decides to blow you or flash you and smash you to pieces because they were confused by your name, I'd consider it sensible escalation.

That's just me, if other admins want to press the point them's the rules.

/tg/Station 13

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