/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Press yes if you want to be my friend

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6440

https://www.tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewt ... f=2&t=6380

Links to last two threads just in case.

Why the fuck is there this much serious discussion over a video game

I've gotten salty before, totally, but this is just fucking pointless

who even cares if someone is griffing you just ignore them and keep playing until they get banned

why does everything on this server have to be a federal fucking issue.

lmao you bitches if you won't do it I will, make me head of the ban request forum.

I'll show you how to run this ship

god damn solve it in IC
hahaha how is meta grudging real
like change your name
change character done
change ckey if you're really that sad
god damn

imblyings wrote: no really I'll need the money because I'm going to have to outsource private investigation duties to eminent and well-established professionals in the field such as jmad or niknak.

at last he truly sees the need for non-ethical, non-bureaucratic final solutions

private autists

trust me friends I know the real struggle

when the assistant devil comes to push me down and beat me to death with a wrench and i discover the real truth that he is, in fact, not an antag but rather just an assistant i am overcome with such invigoriating autism that i must make that bastard bay for his heinous crimes against me for he has ruined atleast 10 minutes of my day

these are truly dark times we live in, bring back ban requests #2k16 or else i will never know safety again

DrPillzRedux wrote:It promotes dumb drama over stupid shit that happened beforehand and some people just can't get over it. It works when people just want an apology or an explanation from the other party but, let's face it, that shit rarely happened. It was either two raging asspies who couldn't let go of a thing that happened in a round or weird as fuck community drama. That promoted someone to stalk someone ooc and dox them for admins which, while understandable, is fucking disgusting. Hiring an autist to find info on people ooc on the offchance they're metagaming in a free 2d spacegame is fucking something alright.

I still disagree but I will give you credit, this is the closest thing to a valid argument against ban requests in this thread.

imblyings wrote:>Hiring an autist to find info on people ooc on the offchance they're metagaming in a free 2d spacegame is fucking something alright.

hey now

someone pay me 100USD per month and a base 10USD per-request solved fee and I'll volunteer to look into ban requests again for the rest of the headmin term ;^). For grittier non-antag vs non-antag he said she said cases, I might have to charge extra.

no really I'll need the money because I'm going to have to outsource private investigation duties to eminent and well-established professionals in the field such as jmad or niknak.

in time I will have built a private admin firm that will rival adminbus and we will stage a hostile takeover

If you hate doing your job that much, why did you become an admin?

Youre not vekter, pas, saeg, niknak or kor, luke, or me for that matter

You're gonna have to show me some money before your posts get taken seriously

After a consultation with financial advisors I'm also offering per request fees of 30usd per hour if you don't want to pay for the complete package.

Stop trying to make ban request happen. It's not going to happen. The arguments haven't changed, the headmins voted in still don't like it, and you can take it up in however many months it'll be before the triumvirate falls apart.

Daily reminder that Ban Requests is for the peanut gallery to chime in over and not a serious place to discuss punishment

T B H
B _ B
H B T

Source: I am an accredited and professional shit stirrer

DrPillzRedux wrote:hat promoted someone to stalk someone ooc and dox them for admins which, while understandable, is fucking disgusting. Hiring an autist to find info on people ooc on the offchance they're metagaming in a free 2d spacegame is fucking something alright.

This whole adminbus surveillance state thing is getting to be a bit much, but that's probably a different topic of discussion.

I'll post my opinion from the other thread:

Ban requests was always an important part of having a complete coverage against griefers. I frequently go AFK on IRC and come back after a few hours to see Bagil adminhelps cry out to an empty bus, and I know from first-hand experience that sometimes its hard to resolve shit that round. Sometimes I'd experience some awful behavior, assume its an antag, only to find out with 40 seconds to restart that it was just an asshole. At that point its sometimes easier to grab the log yourself and take it to Ban Requests than try to scramble out a coherent adminhelp before the round ends while forcing admins to make a call then and there with someone who probably quit after the round ended so you're only getting one side of the story.

It's really not that intensive to respond to ban request threads, just require all the requestees to "do their homework" so to speak and bring a complete profile of what happened so admins can discuss the request on its merits. "Poor use of time" is a super subjective thing when it comes to online video games, I can imagine it would be very frustrating to be subjected to immense griefing, have it ignored because admins were all jerking off, then turned away on the forums because its not worth our precious time. Plus ban requests were a good place to have practical policy discussions that aren't just a bunch of free floating hypotheticals.

The whole attitude of "Its just a gaem y u haf 2 b mad :DDD?" and "this isn't a democracy you live in our world nerds, deal with it" are just two signposts on the slippery slope to administration hell. I know I'm not the only person here who stuck with /tg/station because it had a transparent and effective administration, cutting ban requests is a step backwards from that goal.

All need are:

-More frequently updated logs, if an admin can pull them with a simple command, why make it such a pain for users?
-Require users to come in with pristinely formatted requests with appropriate logs
-Provide a faster resolution process for meritless requests

Why would we intentionally decrease the quality of our administration over some slight effort? When I admin I'd much rather take a last-second ahelp or someone disagree'ing with my ruling and say "Well take it to ban requests" rather than sit there and try to sort out what happened in the following round or feel pressured to explain my reasoning in excruciating detail because all admin decisions (not to act) are now final.

Plus I think the only reason I'm an admin is because of BAN REQUESTS.

I liked Kor's argument from a looooong while back that one of the reason's BR was closed because getting buttblasted about every time you died was silly and pointless (I'm paraphrasing here). On the other hand, I did like that BR was a place to publicly call out people for shitty behavior. I wish we could find a happy medium.

Atlanta-Ned wrote:I liked Kor's argument from a looooong while back that one of the reason's BR was closed because getting buttblasted about every time you died was silly and pointless (I'm paraphrasing here). On the other hand, I did like that BR was a place to publicly call out people for shitty behavior. I wish we could find a happy medium.

This. All of this.

Talking seriously here, I do find myself extremely butt-bothered whenever I die, I'll admit that, but I never found myself so angry that I needed to take it to the forums. From a couple glances, the Ban Request forums seemed to be more like the fucking Jersey Shore section of /tg/station then it was a place where justice could be delivered to shitters that plague the playerbase. There was more "NUH-UH I DIDNT DO THAT YOUR A CUCK FUCK DUCK BUCK" then there was any actual shit being done.

I do agree that we need a better way to monitor griefing beyond just adminhelping in-game and getting the "kk ill look at it", but the Ban Requests was not effective in doing that. If there is a happy medium that we can create where actual fucking investigation can occur and there isnt a huge french revolution between admins and players, then I would love to take that.

I would be all for making it clear in admin guidelines that there be some transparency behind how adminhelps are answered and resolved. I know admins are trying to be clever and hide round information with "looking into it," but it doesnt really matter from an IC standpoint if victim knows their killer was a traitor or not.

If I get cloned, I am gonna go take revenge on the guy who murdered me whether he was a traitor or not so I don't think the spoilers matter much.Hearing "valid" from an admin at least provides some sort of closure OOC wise.


There shouldn't be any adminhelps getting straight up ignored either. Deadmin or log out if you dont want to deal with it. If particular admins are outright ignoring you, please let me know.

What about a round end closing message from admin to player so the player gets some closure with minimum effort from the admin?

Admins, see what happens when you actually engage with the playerbase and explain your position? You can come up with constructive solutions.

Great.

But what if the admins refuse to do anything and instead force you to go to the headmin. Is there any prevention to do that? What if you get griefed and shitpants mcfuckface decides that his time is more well spent getting metaphorical fisted in asay.

Why should anyone be forced to go to IRC and spend something like 2 hours arguing why someone is shit when before all it took was some evidence collection, a post on the ban request and then having to wait for 5 months before anyone did anything.

I mean both systems are pretty horrible (partly because the latter has that whole 5 months of nobody touching it with a dead stick because god knows why.) but objectively ban requests is a much better solution. Once again, don't fix what isn't broken etc.


inb4 this gets locked again by le epic fixed gear bycicle riding moustached man with another epic passive aggressive response.

i've been playing ss13 and more specifically tgstation for years on and off but i've only recently become genuinely active (hence the snazzy forum account). something i'm really missing that i'm used to at other servers/communities are the ban requests. now, while i personally haven't spent a lot of time arguing the point or even seeing the counter arguments for the feature, i'd just like to highlight an experience i had about two weeks ago that almost drove me to quit spacemen again.

i'm not going to go in to TOO much details to avoid appearing salty and to avoid wasting time, but to give you the gist of it, i was the warden and our hos was an incompotent ass muncher who did nothing for the first 15-20 minutes of the round aside from fuck around to a cluwne extent. he captured several people, 'pranked' them by seriously harming them and he even killed a person. he got permabrigged. station went to shit, he somehow escaped permabrig, killed a sec officer, disguised himself as the sec officer and then stunned the gullible and unknowing me, before permabrigging me the same way i did him. i don't think i need to mention that he wasn't an antag, but yeah, he wasn't an antag.

i asked for an admin and a trial admin responded, saying he'll handle it. this trial admin left and another one joined, claiming that he doesn't have conclusive proof and that at most he can do is warn the person and add a note to what i'm assuming is their ckey or username, that they're assholes and need to be watched out for in the future. i even said i'd provide actual proof, since i had logs (albeit i doubt the admin couldn't access them easier than me) and even screenshots. but he didn't want to act on it since the first admin who carelessly left was "handling it".

now, this isn't about pointing fingers and naming people, and to be honest it was so out of my head by now that i had already forgotten those involved. but do you see how in this situation it might be useful if i could post my findings and incriminating evidence against the person on the forum? don't you see how genuinely infuriating it is for me to see the same person take a head role next round like they did nothing wrong?

like i said. i'm not fully invested in this argument, i'm just giving a perspective. personally i'd like to see it back.

It's not coming back. If you get so damn salty over something PM the admins and head admins over the forums but a public space for this is not needed.

Or stop getting mad about video games.

Or stop being an admin if you don't want to deal with player conflicts, aka your entire job

Aliannera wrote:It's not coming back. If you get so damn salty over something PM the admins and head admins over the forums but a public space for this is not needed.

Or stop getting mad about video games.

>get treated by shit by the admins
>constant backpedalling, shitty excuses, random decisions and locking of topics randomly by an overgrown manchild.
>"dont get mad lol XDDDDDD"

h-heh y-you too.

Luke Cox wrote:Or stop being an admin if you don't want to deal with player conflicts, aka your entire job

I provided an alternative via the forum PM system. You click two buttons and bam all the admins get your message.

But muh public drama forum must exist yes?

why the hate against the public forum, though? just saying, if it's about avoiding every single high-horsed douchebag on the forum posting in requests that have nothing to do with them, you could just make a rule against that. enforcing that shouldn't be hard, right? if you have to go to the extent of PMing somebody about the problem, isn't it more efficient to just have a forum where every admin can see your complaint and the potentially involved parties can partake in the discussion?

i don't think there's a problem if administrators handle shit in-game, but sometimes they simply can't, or like in my case, won't. in that case, instead of allowing the person to go unpunished, don't you think it's more viable to just have a forum for all the ban requests that couldn't be handled in game? i mean, it's far less efficient to PM a single admin with your complaint and leaving them to their own devices -- confronting the person responsible, etc.

Aliannera wrote:It's not coming back. If you get so damn salty over something PM the admins and head admins over the forums but a public space for this is not needed.

Or stop getting mad about video games.

come on dude. you're supposed to be an administrator, right? have some spine and come up with a proper rebuttal at the very least.

But once again, the whole point of ban requests was that it was a public forum that players who, whilst not directly involved with that certain case, could add about their general experience or add on another set of events where something similar happened with x or y player.

But now you can't do that, for literally no reason and you still haven't given us a concrete reason as to why it was removed other than "DRAMA AND I DONT LIKE DOING MY JOB ITS FAR TOO HARD!!"

i'd like to interject:

if orbiting people you think are metagaming is "stalking" than I better remove orbiting

ColonicAcid wrote:But once again, the whole point of ban requests was that it was a public forum that players who, whilst not directly involved with that certain case, could add about their general experience or add on another set of events where something similar happened with x or y player.

But now you can't do that, for literally no reason and you still haven't given us a concrete reason as to why it was removed other than "DRAMA AND I DONT LIKE DOING MY JOB ITS FAR TOO HARD!!"

This is anther good point. Ban requests provided a way for 3rd party witnesses to come forward, which is very difficult to do via ahelps

That has always been one of the main points of ban request.
Like for fucking real. Now the only way is that by somehow the stars aligning and two people message a headmin about two different situations about the same player from a long time ago. All in all, good fucking luck this will never happen.


But you didn't think this one though at all did you? You just decided that it sounded like an amazing idea on paper and it would make your life SO much easier so lets add it!

also completely unrelated the doxxing shit is fucking hilarious LOL. both parties are stupid, firstly for thinking your doxxing by merely searching on google and secondly for leaving breadcrumbs that lets people find you by googling you.

Reminder that admins exist to serve the community and if you don't like the community you shouldn't be policing it, and if you don't like policing it, well.

Ban Requests was another way to keep the game clean of rule breakers, why are admins against this?

Cull the admin team when?

Not sure how I am backpedaling/hating the community/not engaging etc. I have now spent four threads reiterating and explaining the same position I took a month ago when I took down ban requests.

You're also not the one constantly closing the threads or going "Discussion is pointless because it's not coming back ))"

Reminder that i offer competitively priced ban request services

100usd per month base retainer fee and a small 10usd additional fee for each normal request, additional fees may apply depending on request

Or a flat 30usd per hour service for individual requests

I have proven experience in dealing with requests, can place bans quickly and independently of the current process involving headmins, and the best external consultants are hired for your request, we spare no expenses here.

There are tailored plans that cater to everyone. A simple ban not enough? Want to smear someones face in the dirt? For a small fee we can deliver offensive online reputation management on multiple platforms. Got a lot of salt that needs unloading? Want someone banned for longer? We offer ban extensions for just 10usd per day. Have someone you outright hate? Ask about our long term ban extension plans, starting at 200usd per month and we have financing options for longer bans at competitive interest rates. Simply want drama to read? Customize your ban by selecting options such as simultaneous singulo posting, thread shitposting, dragging out an argument longer, and more, all at affordable prices. Want admins to constantly observe and shadow someone to build up a case against them? Our extensive contacts mean the power of the circlejerk could be at /your/ fingertips. Basic anerican primetime coverage starts at 25usd per hour per admin and we also offer 24/7 admin ghost orbiting services starting from 1000usd per day.

There are no ethics involved here, only your money and your satisfaction

Guaranteed

Do you accept payments in tf2 hats?

imblyings wrote:Reminder that i offer competitively priced ban request services

100usd per month base retainer fee and a small 10usd additional fee for each normal request, additional fees may apply depending on request

Or a flat 30usd per hour service for individual requests

I have proven experience in dealing with requests, can place bans quickly and independently of the current process involving headmins, and the best external consultants are hired for your request, we spare no expenses here.

There are tailored plans that cater to everyone. A simple ban not enough? Want to smear someones face in the dirt? For a small fee we can deliver offensive online reputation management on multiple platforms. Got a lot of salt that needs unloading? Want someone banned for longer? We offer ban extensions for just 10usd per day. Have someone you outright hate? Ask about our long term ban extension plans, starting at 200usd per month and we have financing options for longer bans at competitive interest rates. Simply want drama to read? Customize your ban by selecting options such as simultaneous singulo posting, thread shitposting, dragging out an argument longer, and more, all at affordable prices. Want admins to constantly observe and shadow someone to build up a case against them? Our extensive contacts mean the power of the circlejerk could be at /your/ fingertips. Basic anerican primetime coverage starts at 25usd per hour per admin and we also offer 24/7 admin ghost orbiting services starting from 1000usd per day.

There are no ethics involved here, only your money and your satisfaction

Guaranteed

How does your service handle ban requests for people that don't even play the game?

Yoo its just a video game dudeee

That's not the point, the point is now it feels like it's easier for people to get away with egregious violations of the rules and you'll just turn around and say smh it's just a game why are you even mad go play call of duty or something

That's not a healthy attitude.

It sounds like most of adminbus would rather play the game with godmode enabled instead of doing what they're supposed to do.

Kor wrote:Not sure how I am backpedaling/hating the community/not engaging etc. I have now spent four threads reiterating and explaining the same position I took a month ago when I took down ban requests.

You are the massive exception here. Your colleagues are cancer.