/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Meme shuttles are cool. But if you buy the hyperfractal gigashuttle, or the arena, or the asteroid, or that one that is full of plasma stuff (that might have just been an adminmeme though) people are going to die. Should you be allowed to do it as a non-antag? Discuss

No because he owns the station, including cargo and shuttle purchases. He’s within his right to do that, you’re within your right to fight back if you’re inclined, and he’s within his right to defend himself should you choose that.

Cobby wrote:No because he owns the station, including cargo and shuttle purchases.

Actually no he's in control of the station. NanoTrasen own it. Do you know the difference between ownership and control?

I'm gonna need to know your age sorry.

The asteroid isn't the biggest issue, you can step out of the way easily. The big issues are the hyperfractal and inferno shuttles, and to a lesser extent the incredibly small ones that can be easily wiped clean by one bomb.

Shuttles are also most definitely not "a reward for the captain", it's a "reward" for whoever steals all access and sneaks onto the bridge or captains office, then immediately fucks off.

Making the captain valid doesn't count as fair play for ordering a dangerous shuttle because you're basically reenacting a reverse copy of the "kill Ian so that the HoP tries to attack you so you can kill him" situation we hated so much, except the person baiting the fight has access to all the guns on the station, a very dangerous sword, and the entirety of security and command under him. Not only do you need to actually kill the captain (no small task), you need to make sure that everyone from command and security is either onboard or doesn't care, or you're gonna get yourself killed.

And lastly, letting the captain/whoever else giggle to themselves because they ordered a shuttle that can/will get people killed without getting in trouble is the lamest kind of reward that goes against everything we expect from players in the rules. You literally cannot argue that this doesn't stick out from normal expectations of the rules.

It's obviously an exception to the rules, I don't think anyone has ever denied that.

But it's a good exception to the rules because it embodies two of the best things about SS13

-Anything can happen, leading to wild stories. I've seen the shuttle get overrun by xenomorphs about a thousand times, but seeing xenomorphs overrun the disco shuttle and everyone dancing to the music while they killed one another until it all went up in flames was one of the best things I saw this year.

-Those stories are player driven, making them feel natural and organic and gives the game that "you can do anything" feeling. If these shuttles were just randomly chosen at round end admins would have nobody to ban and they'd be about as controversial as the rod event, but I think "the captain ordered a giant meteor with engines as an escape shuttle and it crashed into the station and wiped out a biohazard that was spreading to eat everyone" is a way better story than "the game randomly did it"

Obviously there are going to be tradeoffs and downsides to allowing any particular behavior by players, but in this case its mitigated by it being a single action that can be taken at max once per round (so no chance for this to slippery slope into constant grief), its an easy action to avoid (pods), and it only impacts the last ~5 minutes of the game so nobody is going to be sitting out for long periods of time because of it.

Also I agree the supermatter shuttle is overlethal but that is why that one is admin only

Kor wrote:Also I agree the supermatter shuttle is overlethal but that is why that one is admin only

Kor wrote:but that is why that one is admin only

Kor wrote:admin only

S-should I tell him?

I forgot someone switched it to 100k with the promise that the crew would never get that much followed by broken tech disks making that amount trivial

Rustledjimm wrote:

Cobby wrote:No because he owns the station, including cargo and shuttle purchases.

Actually no he's in control of the station. NanoTrasen own it. Do you know the difference between ownership and control?

I'm gonna need to know your age sorry.

14 haha and no you can't see my ID!

Either way he controls both. I like to imagine they purchased the ship and have an agreement with nanotrasen to research plasma as a way to repay :p

Kor wrote:I forgot someone switched it to 100k with the promise that the crew would never get that much followed by broken tech disks making that amount trivial

Seems odd to say that cargo gets screwed over if we make them have a cost instead of give credits but also say that there are ways that allow for massive amount of credits in the same thread.

Seems odd you didnt read "broken" in my second post

Tech disks are not meant to give 100k points and I am not gonna balance or plan around them doing so

So, can I turn off giga shuttle then?

Kor wrote:Seems odd you didnt read "broken" in my second post

Tech disks are not meant to give 100k points and I am not gonna balance or plan around them doing so

Exports in general fix this grievance combined with stocks though

I mean until they’re actually “fixed” it’s fair to consider them in the discussion regardless of the other methods.

Cobby wrote:“fixed”

Please reconsider any line of argument that considers 50k-100k tech disks to be intentional or sane

If we are going forward and balancing around this then the asteroid costing +/- 5k does not actually matter (and neither do stocks or other exports) and this whole thing is bikeshedding if we accept that cargo is just gonna have essentially unlimited money for free

Armhulen wrote:So, can I turn off giga shuttle then?

Seems wise

Kor wrote:

Cobby wrote:“fixed”

Please reconsider any line of argument that considers 50k-100k tech disks to be intentional or sane

If we are going forward and balancing around this then the asteroid costing +/- 5k does not actually matter (and neither do stocks or other exports) and this whole thing is bikeshedding if we accept that cargo is just gonna have essentially unlimited money for free

Fixed was in quotes because that was code for outright removal. I don't disagree with that but again until it's in play or even PR'd I think it has some say in the discussion.

Tech disks also are semi-timebound and stocks+exports are for sure. If their main income revolves around investment (stocks) of their current capital (exports usually), it is not bikeshedding when you can basically double your starting money by buying epic meme shuttles which you have previously tried to minimize in other forms. It takes time to get their money, but once they have this money (enough where they could buy these meme shuttles), they'd probably have a bunch more anyways given its sorta exponential growth. "Making shuttles give credits is not really balanced" and "at the time they could buy shuttles cargo would have a bunch of money anyways so it doesn't really hurt cargo" are not mutually exclusive.

I mean just try making them cost a bit and we can revert if it's trash. I think it will genuinely fix the grievances and put admins out of the equation if they had a hefty cost for their meme potential. At worst Kor is proven right and we all go home.

at least stocks can fuck you over and destroy all your money

you guys throwing a fit over any reasonable supply/demand systems for exports didn't help either

iamgoofball wrote:at least stocks can fuck you over and destroy all your money

you guys throwing a fit over any reasonable supply/demand systems for exports didn't help either

I really got to craft a imp/exp system someday but tgui is awful reeee